choosing a flute

[Swedish Pride]

I have no expertise in this, I just run a copper pot.
But an experiment would be cool if there is anyone with two flutes, one all copper, one copper plates on SS tower, 10 gallons from the same 30 g ferment.
Same operator, same person making cuts, aging on the same amount of oakin the same enviroment at the same ABV%.
Send samples to a jury of the most experienced folks on this site with samples marked 1 and 2, only the person sending it out will know what one is SS and what one is copper

I know this is very unlikely to happen as there would not be too many with two flutes, but it's the only way I can think of to put this to bed.
I have no doubt both produce fine likker, but it would be interesting to see if there was an overwhelming win for one still or the other.

[emptyglass]

I've tasted some nice stuff from stainless stills, but also tasted some crap.

Same goes for copper stills, but the crap stuff from a copper still tastes young, poorly made or just a drink I didn't like.

The crap from stainless stills has a nasty sulphide note to it thats very hard to get over. The good stuff was good, but it was made well and aged well.

LWTCS is right when he says there more to it than just the still, but a good still can help a lot.

When copper is added to a stainless still, it works hard to remove the sulphides it can. It often goes black quickly, a sign its working too hard. It then needs cleaning too frequently. Its plain to see why cleaning is a concern with a stainless still.

On the other hand, a copper still dosn't need any stainless to work well. It rarely needs cleaning if at all.

As for the point of diminishing returns on the amount of copper used in a stainless still, there isnt any point of diminishing returns. Add copper plates, copper downcomers, copper modules/section and copper condensers and you prolly got enough copper in there.

[BanjoInWA]

What an interesting thread... I've been running a 3 inch, 4 plate, all copper, flute for a couple of years now. I've built a Boka but was not impressed so I recycled it into a pot with a thumper. I've recently been mentoring a friend who wants to build his own flute which has put the build bug back into me. I'm considering another flute but making it modular. My question to pose to the "choosing a flute" thread is about diameter. I realize that diameter=speed but does anyone have actual comparisons? Is the additional cost of stepping up to a 4" diameter, as compared to a 3", going to be worth the additional $. I've started pricing materials for the build and it seems that 4" pipe and fittings are about 30% more than 3". I don't mind spending the money if it is worth it in the end.

I apologize if this has already been asked and answered in another thread... If it has, maybe someone can direct me the where it has been discussed.

Thanks for any insight.

[sungazer]

I have found this a very interesting thread as well for many reasons. One of them I can understand but don't is the "speed" of the runs for sure I understand that a 4 inch column is going to be able to hold a lot more and the speed of the Vapor that is pushed up it by the heat source is going to be lower. However the normal range of the members here heat sources would seem to be in the 5000W range. This is still going to mean about an hours heat up for a 45L wash in a 50L boiler and a 4inch Flute I would think would need a considerable amount of time to equalize. I give my 2 inch packed column 30 min to load up and equalize properly. After then there is only so fast you can go to make good cuts. The heart yes you can take out pretty quick but even in a 2 inch that is only 11/2 to 2 hours max. As I pondered in my initial thoughts just seems a bit of an overkill for the hobby level. I would probably prefer to run a 100L boiler just on a 2 inch as the equalization time the filling and emptying would all take the same amount of time and the actual collection time vs collected amount I think would seem more satisfying. To do a 4 inch justice a would have thought that a pretty big heat source and a very large boiler would be needed. What is the total volume of distillate that is needed to load the column before it starts to produce? Does this have an effect on smearing?

[cranky]

I have found this a very interesting thread as well for many reasons. One of them I can understand but don't is the "speed" of the runs for sure I understand that a 4 inch column is going to be able to hold a lot more and the speed of the Vapor that is pushed up it by the heat source is going to be lower. However the normal range of the members here heat sources would seem to be in the 5000W range. This is still going to mean about an hours heat up for a 45L wash in a 50L boiler and a 4inch Flute I would think would need a considerable amount of time to equalize. I give my 2 inch packed column 30 min to load up and equalize properly. After then there is only so fast you can go to make good cuts. The heart yes you can take out pretty quick but even in a 2 inch that is only 11/2 to 2 hours max. As I pondered in my initial thoughts just seems a bit of an overkill for the hobby level. I would probably prefer to run a 100L boiler just on a 2 inch as the equalization time the filling and emptying would all take the same amount of time and the actual collection time vs collected amount I think would seem more satisfying. To do a 4 inch justice a would have thought that a pretty big heat source and a very large boiler would be needed. What is the total volume of distillate that is needed to load the column before it starts to produce? Does this have an effect on smearing?

I gotta say I run 5500W and my heat up time is considerably less than an hour, 45L would take about 35 min. I think I stabilize between 20-30 min and my takeoff speed is way faster than it was with my boka but I never did single runs in my boka.

My boiler is 15.5 gallons, my flute is a little over 3" I.D. and I collect in 1/4 pint increments, if my takeoff speed were any faster I wouldn't be able to keep up. If I did 23 gallon runs instead of 13 I might consider going larger but I think for my needs 3" is perfect.

[bentstick]

No real big need to stablize or reflux for 25-30 mins they stack a whole faster than that!

22 gal mash/wash heat up,collect,strip tails and clean up 4-4.5 hrs,5500 watt element run on 220,its all in what ya think ya want,you can talk or reason yourself into or out of anything!

[emptyglass]

I agree with Bentstick, a 4" plated column will load the plates in under 5 mins, and for flavoured stuff start drawing product off almost straight after its loaded.

For neutral longer reflux times are a benefit, but so is a packable section if your goal is clear spirits.

@sungazer, the good thing is if your happy, theres no need to change.

[sungazer]

Guys as I said I am not against the idea. I think they look great. As emptyglass said I am looking at it from the point of view of what I want to achieve and what I have been doing. I don't dispute the plates would load within 5 min at all. Again from my point of view I believe in having the whole column achieve a good stable temperature gradient and that takes a bit longer than 5 min.

[bentstick]

just adding info from my experince,which has been more than a couple yrs,thought you where lookin for info and opinions my bad carry on!

[Brutal]

I've been really enjoying reading this thread. Buying was something that never really crossed my mind with all the TTB stuff, and price, and I'd rather build anyway. But lately I've had real trouble getting time to work on projects. I'm sure I could come up with the money before I could come up with the time anymore. This thread opened my mind to the idea of buying.

I've not used any of these stills so I can't make a recommendation specific to that. I have bought parts from Still Dragon and Brewhaus though and had great service from both of them. One thing to consider if you're on the fence. Brewhaus/Rick is going to great lengths and leading the way to make our hobby legal. I would personally buy his product even if I had to make a couple mods to suite my tastes, or even if it cost a little more which is not the case.

One thing is for sure. We do have some great vendors to choose from nowadays.

[LWTCS]

Guys as I said I am not against the idea. I think they look great. As emptyglass said I am looking at it from the point of view of what I want to achieve and what I have been doing. I don't dispute the plates would load within 5 min at all. Again from my point of view I believe in having the whole column achieve a good stable temperature gradient and that takes a bit longer than 5 min.

That's because your likely not making whiskey (or the like).

Can also wind it up and squeeze heads ( but not too much), then kill the heat and let your trays drain. Particularly easy with perf plates!

Then fire the kettle back up with just a trickle of water through your dephleg and then continue the run while thinking just like a pot stiller. No cycling at all. None, nadda......

Takes no time at all to bring the thing back on line and the purity stays within whiskey collection rage very easily.

Does not make the same insipid style associated with letting the system cycle too long. Which is great for white whiskey by the way. But if your putting anything away in a barrel and your a pot stiller at heart,,,,,,this here way works real good too,,,,,,,,or not.

[googe]

+1 bent, I used to equalize for half hour or more when I first started this hobby, then you experienced lot said there's no need to. So I gave it a go and refluxed for 5 mins, for the.minimal differences it makes, I havnt refluxed any longer for almost 3 years now lol. Empty makes a nice still too

[biggybigz]

As I continue in the world of shopping, has anyone had any experience with http://moonshine-still.co/products/4-bu ... -for-vodka" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ??

Didn't know they were so close to me in MO.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

As I continue in the world of shopping, has anyone had any experience with http://moonshine-still.co/products/4-bu ... -for-vodka" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ??

Didn't know they were so close to me in MO.

Thats who I bought my 8 gal pot still from.
I am happy with their service and quality of the equipment.

[Azframer]

I myself am partial to the Still Dragon design, one because I was part of the team that helped design the Dash 1.0 and the other reason I have one of the first versions. Larry is one hell of a guy and gets parts out as soon as he can. Quick to respond to customer needs and service. Not like some of the other still sites that sell you a rig and forget about you.

JMHO
Rick

[biggybigz]

I really like that SD & EG have their own forums built around their products. I could probably find that to be very helpful I am sure.