Booner's Casual All Corn

[Jimbo]

Here's the charts for alpha and beta amylase

enzymepH.gif (6.46 KiB) Viewed 5808 times

[thumper123]

It's a pretty crappy resolution,

temp pH graphs.jpg

Not so. It's great, and I think it pretty much spells out enzyme usage.

[HDNB]

lowered PH with some booner's backset

How much backset did you use? If you needed quite a bit, what do you think your final corn/water ratio is?
Just asking because I needed quite a bit of lemon juice to get my pH down for the sebAmyl, never tried doing it with backset but assuming it would require more.

Total? about 80lbs of grain, 5 gal of backset and total volume recovered 40gallons. it dropped the PH into 4's (going by color here not digital readouts) definitely sub -PH5... so i'd say a 1:10 ratio approx.

it sure is feremnting vigourously. in a 205L barrel, the krausen foamed up about 10-12" on the sides, by evidence today and still has a thick foam cap and bubbling like crazy 24 hrs later...good thing i didn't fill it any fuller!

[MichiganCornhusker]

40 gallons?! Forget about OG, you gonna have lots of corn goodness.
Don't sweat the low abv, might need to do an extra strip run but you will get great product. Sounds like your ferment is very happy, you should be too.

[HDNB]

40 gallons?! Forget about OG, you gonna have lots of corn goodness.
Don't sweat the low abv, might need to do an extra strip run but you will get great product. Sounds like your ferment is very happy, you should be too.

if i can get this done with no funky smells, i'll be happy. with the way i cut, i'm hoping this will leave me with 1 gallon of cask strength, that i can put on some wood and hide.

[brick]

I'm making some Booner's All Corn, and am wondering if Woodshed is still supplying mashing enzymes, as I recall he has in the past.

I tried to find this info in classifieds, but had no luck, so please refrain from chastising me for not doing my homework or asking to be spoonfed, etc.

Thanks very much for any help.

brick

[jedneck]

I'm making some Booner's All Corn, and am wondering if Woodshed is still supplying mashing enzymes, as I recall he has in the past.

I tried to find this info in classifieds, but had no luck, so please refrain from chastising me for not doing my homework or asking to be spoonfed, etc.

Thanks very much for any help.

brick

Send him a pm

[brick]

I'm making some Booner's All Corn, and am wondering if Woodshed is still supplying mashing enzymes, as I recall he has in the past.

I tried to find this info in classifieds, but had no luck, so please refrain from chastising me for not doing my homework or asking to be spoonfed, etc.

Thanks very much for any help.

brick

Send him a pm

Sorry, Jed.
What's a pm? I suspect that you mean I should send him a message. To me that means afternoon, as in 1:00 pm, etc. I have no idea how to contact a forum member directly.

[woodshed]

I'm making some Booner's All Corn, and am wondering if Woodshed is still supplying mashing enzymes, as I recall he has in the past.

I tried to find this info in classifieds, but had no luck, so please refrain from chastising me for not doing my homework or asking to be spoonfed, etc.

Thanks very much for any help.

brick

Send him a pm

Sorry, Jed.
What's a pm? I suspect that you mean I should send him a message. To me that means afternoon, as in 1:00 pm, etc. I have no idea how to contact a forum member directly.

Your profile does not show you having the ability to send a pm thru the site. Don't know why that is. You can e mail at haybooner@aol.com if you want some more info.

[RevSpaminator]

So I tried something a couple months ago and since the stuff is aging so smoothly I figured I'd better share.

With a nod to Jimbo, I like to call this a "cornball" head. Now this is real rocket science here so pay attention.. I added 40 lb of corn sugar to the leftover grain from a batch of Booner's and 25 gallons of water and let it go.

I got the idea from a family member who departed this world a couple years ago. He used to make wine and whenever his recipe called for table sugar he used dextrose (corn sugar) instead. He swore by it because it doesn't have the bite that table sugar has. And he was right. This is the smoothest "sugar head" I ever made and I barely had to throw any out for heads.

I had nearly forgotten about about this until I found dextrose at Cash & Carry for only ~10 more than regular cane sugar. It was well worth every penny.

I know it isn't the same as all grain, but it sure is a nice way to get a bit more out of your spent grain before you have to compost it. (OK, compost is what I call it when I dump it in the back yard.)

[Jimbo]

CornballHead! Thats great. Sounds delicious. Ill try corn sugar next go round of grappa or gumballhead, thanks for the tip.

[Bobdoe]

Hey folks- for what it is worth, dextrose is another name for glucose (a monosaccharide), the sugar the yeast uses directly. Table sugar is sucrose, a disaccharide that is broken down to glucose and fructose before the yeast can use it. It makes some sense that sucrose vs glucose gives different properties.
Bd

[S-Cackalacky]

Hey folks- for what it is worth, dextrose is another name for glucose (a monosaccharide), the sugar the yeast uses directly. Table sugar is sucrose, a disaccharide that is broken down to glucose and fructose before the yeast can use it. It makes some sense that sucrose vs glucose gives different properties.
Bd

Doc, how is this accomplished in the ferment? Is this the same as using heat and acid to invert sugar before it goes into a ferment? That is, is inverted sugar glucose?

[Ferment_It]

Yes S-cack. The enzyme yeast use is called invertase - it does the same thing as when you invert on the stove.

Yeast chew up the best carbon and energy source first then move on to the second. It's called diauxic (sp?) growth. So if you give them sucrose without inverting it yeast must produce this enzyme, produce enzymes to eat glucose, then enzymes for fructose. Yeast would rather have a single carbon source such as dextrose. They don't have to work as hard to eat.

[HDNB]

Yes S-cack. The enzyme yeast use is called invertase - it does the same thing as when you invert on the stove.

Yeast chew up the best carbon and energy source first then move on to the second. It's called diauxic (sp?) growth. So if you give them sucrose without inverting it yeast must produce this enzyme, produce enzymes to eat glucose, then enzymes for fructose. Yeast would rather have a single carbon source such as dextrose. They don't have to work as hard to eat.

selective grazing. gotta admit, i'll go for the low hanging fruit first myself. especially if it's a rib eye.

[kekedog13]

Hey Rev, What your doing is the UJSSM method. A great way to reuse all that grain and yeast. And it gets better with each generation ! It's not uncommon for brewers to go up to 10 gen this way.

[RevSpaminator]

Hey Rev, What your doing is the UJSSM method. A great way to reuse all that grain and yeast. And it gets better with each generation ! It's not uncommon for brewers to go up to 10 gen this way.

I realize it is more like UJSSM than Booners but since I fermented on top of this recipe I figured it would be worth mentioning here. Either way it is a great replacement for cane sugar especially when your other nutrients are largely corn based.

[jpatts]

I am inexperienced, but I have tried a few of the recipes with limited success. I have read and re-read the posts and I have 2 questions. How much yeast and what does the yeast eat to make the CO2 and the alcohol? Is it the liquid enzymes? I am using 5 gallons of water and 10 pounds of corn. I have used Red Star Dady before and used 2 TBSP pitches at 90 degrees for 5 gallons and I am not sure of that is the same amount I should use in this application. I am just trying to clear some confusion as I do not want waste too much time and supplies. I have tossed product out before that sucked and the hardest part is not fully understanding where I went wrong, so I thought I would ask questions first.
Thank you
Jim

[S-Cackalacky]

Jpatts, in this particular recipe there is a step (or two) before you begin the fermentation process. It relies on "mashing" the grains which involves cooking the grains to the point of gelatinization to make the starches in the grain available to the enzymes which are added to the cooked grain at certain temperatures. The enzymes convert the available starches to sugar. These are the sugars that the yeast will eat to produce CO2 and alcohol. Besides liquid enzymes, you could also use malted grains which are grains that have been sprouted to produce natural enzymes within the grain. The malted grain could then be used in the mashing process to serve the same function as the liquid enzymes.

What I would recommend for someone starting out would be to start with a simple sugarhead recipe like UJSSM (Uncle Jesse's Simple Sour Mash method) which can be found in the "Tried and True Recipes" section of the forums. Do some generations of the UJSSM recipe while continuing to read about the AG (All Grain) mashing process until you feel comfortable trying it. This recipe in particular would be a good one to start with when you feel comfortable with taking it on.

Good luck with it and stay safe.

[still_stirrin]

.....How much yeast and what does the yeast eat to make the CO2 and the alcohol? Is it the liquid enzymes?...

Nope. Yeast are single cell organisms similar to a fungus, neither plant nor animal. They consume sugars: sucrose, fructose, maltose, maltriose, glucose, etc. and expire CO2 and alcohols. They can produce other constituents too such as esters, and acetones. It depends on the yeast health and the environment they're exposed to. Too warm or not enough nutrients, or even the correct nutrients can affect the fermentation productivity.

...I am using 5 gallons of water and 10 pounds of corn. I have used Red Star Dady before and used 2 TBSP pitches at 90 degrees for 5 gallons and I am not sure of that is the same amount I should use in this application. I am just trying to clear some confusion as I do not want waste too much time and supplies. I have tossed product out before that sucked and the hardest part is not fully understanding where I went wrong, so I thought I would ask questions first....

Well, corn alone doesn't have the enzymatic power to convert its starch to fermentable sugars. You need malted barley with good diastatic power to convert the corn's starch. And if the corn is not gelatinized first, its starches aren't readily available for the enzymes to reduce to sugars.

All these questions tell me that you need to do a lot more reading before trying to distill. Fermentation is the first fundamental skill you need to acquire in order to proceed. I suggest reading the mashing and fermentation forum for a while to understand more about the processes. Also, homebrewing forums will help with the basics too.

And while you're at it, read the "spoonfeed" thread in my signature. Read through all the threads there, not just the titles.

Success at this hobby pivots on your knowledge, safety, and experience. Read a while to get started towards success.

Be safe. Be responsible. And be discrete.
ss

edit-posted with S-Cack.

[jpatts]

Thank you for the assistance. I thought I had enough of the basics behind me to try this recipe, but it appears I am still barley crawling. Back to the books and then try to revisit this recipe once I have more experience.

Jim

[HDNB]

Thank you for the assistance. I thought I had enough of the basics behind me to try this recipe, but it appears I am still barley crawling. Back to the books and then try to revisit this recipe once I have more experience.

Jim

good on ya for givin go. I did probably 50 sugarheads before booners kicked my ass the first time too. i read 6-8 months before i tried an AG, but the experience of getting the all grain right is invaluable. it is worth the research and effort. i screwed the pooch so bad, so many times on AG i thought it was all a joke to haze newbees....patience and perseverance you can piss a hole through a stone! good luck.

[Snackson]

Picked up a 50# Sack of Nutrena steam rolled corn. After getting it home I noticed it has propionic acid in it as a preservative. Well, thanks to HD Google I found out it's going to be okay to use after I rinse/wash it. I have some of pintoshines enzymes and plan on getting some of this going into my new 32 gallon brute can I picked up for ~$6 today! Gotta love clearance!

[Brutal]

Good luck with it buddy. Let us know how it goes.

[woodshed]

Since posting this thread I have switched to Opti-Mash and Ultra-Ferm enzymes. I find them to be of a higher concentration meaning I can use less per mash. Cheaper off the shelf as well. Admin edit no selling

[jedneck]

Shed
What dosage are you using?

[woodshed]

Opti-Mash I use 0.25ml per lb.
Ultra-Ferm 0.30ml per lb.

[Due51]

I DID IT! I finally have a mash that I can duplicate with consistent results.

I've been attempting this casual corn mash for about a year but just couldn't get decent efficiency with the cracked corn. I tweaked and tweaked but never got a decent SG. This year, I've switched to corn meal, and aside from stuck sparges, I'm getting 1.064 - 1.066 and feel like I've got it down pretty good.

10# stone ground corn meal steeped for 1.5 hours in 5 gallons of hot backset. This is done in two 5 gallon igloo drinking coolers.
add 1st Enzyme*. Stir for 5 minutes and set overnight.
Next morning,
Use .5gal cold wash back to bring temp of corn to 125.
Meanwhile, in my 12 gallon, steam injected mash tun, I bring 3 gallons washback up to 125 degrees
Add corn meal from igloos
Stabilize temps at 125*.
Add 2nd enzyme*
Stir for 5 minutes every half hour for 2-3 hours
Raise temp to 160*
Add 6# barley + 2# wheat (or rye would work)
stir for 5 minutes every 30 minutes for the next 2 hours
Drain my mash tun into 5 gallon plastic fermenting buckets. (I actually have to hand strain through a big sieve because the corn meal clogs up my cpvc lautering drain tubes. That's one thing I need to get squared away to make my process even more efficient.)
Add 3 gallons of 179* sparge water over the grains in the mash tun. Let set for an hour or so. Drain (or in my case, strain)
Cool the wort.
While the wort is cooling, I boil 3.5 more gallons of water and pour them over the grains. This provides the washback that I use for the next mash.

I'm quite pleased that I finally found a process I can confidently duplicate. This is a major milestone in my humble little brewing career.

Thanks shed and everyone that contributes to this thread and site. It helps make for an enjoyable hobby.

*The enzymes I use are from Brewcraft. So far they've worked pretty well. My iodine test shows total conversion.

[Fingermonster]

Here's the charts for alpha and beta amylase

enzymepH.gif

Beta_amylase_activity.gif

enzyme_activity_one_hour_mash.jpg

So according to this chart could I just maintain a 150F temperature and just adjust the PH to make both enzymes happy?

[der wo]

Here's the charts for alpha and beta amylase

enzymepH.gif

Beta_amylase_activity.gif

enzyme_activity_one_hour_mash.jpg

So according to this chart could I just maintain a 150F temperature and just adjust the PH to make both enzymes happy?

No. After 1h 150F you have a good conversion for 1h, but the b-amylase has died in the meantime. And you need it for further conversion.

But we are off-topic now. This thread is about a recipe using liquid enzymes, not malted barley. What means, a recipe using glucoamylase instead of b-amylase.

So if you make a mash with malted barley, perhaps it's better to open a new thread or to write in another thread.