Distilling advice

[jb-texshine]

[quote=]
Also on a single run the total ABV would be closer to 40 or 45%[/quote]
Must be all them heads keeping the proof up.

[still_stirrin]

I watched the Popcorn Sutton documentary and he didn't run it twice... At least it didn't show it.

Unfortunately, it's too late to ask him if he double or triple distilled anything. But since his motives were "for profit" and not quality, I would seriously doubt he ever did more than his single pass potstill runs.

And often commercial distilleries have the same "one & done" philosophy motivated by economics. Their recourse (and often advertised) is long times in the aging process. Its hard to metabolize the heads and tails that get stuffed into those casks, and often the results are evident even after 7 or more years.
ss

[Hanson423]

I watched the Popcorn Sutton documentary and he didn't run it twice... At least it didn't show it.

Unfortunately, it's too late to ask him if he double or triple distilled anything. But since his motives were "for profit" and not quality, I would seriously doubt he ever did more than his single pass potstill runs.

And often commercial distilleries have the same "one & done" philosophy motivated by economics. Their recourse (and often advertised) is long times in the aging process. Its hard to metabolize the heads and tails that get stuffed into those casks, and often the results are evident even after 7 or more years.
ss

Ok that's makes sense! Thank you

[steelmb]

...Who can complain about free liquor regardless of the bowel reprocussions or ensuing headaches? Free is FREE, right? Pass me the "bottle of buzz", I'll worry about "tomorrow" another day.

There we go again making assumptions that people are gonna get the "skoots" or end up with a hangover from drinking my shine but never having tried it. If you say that your "low wines" give you the skoots or cause hangovers, I will take your word for it and not dispute it, since you have a whole lot more experience with your product than I do. It would be nice if you took my word for it that my product does not seem to cause those ill effects since I have a whole lot more experience with my stuff than you do. I am not a rocket scientist and not so conceited that I would think that no one else could replicate my results. I do believe that there are others that could and encourage them to try as it is a whole lot more efficient in terms of both time and resources. You are also assuming that people only drink it because it is "free". Well it's not free, I do put a fair amount of money, time and effort into it. And no, I absolutely do not sell it but it is not free as I am the one footing the bill. It is inexpensive enough as far as input costs that I can afford to do it, but if one were to count the time put into it, I may be better off going to buy it in the store, as there is a fair bit of time and effort involved. However I like my stuff better than store bought and have long given up trying to make anything that resembles store bought stuff. If I felt that my friends were not genuinely enjoying it and only drinking it cause someone else was footing the bill, I would not pass them the bottle.

[der wo]

Steelmb, did you once try double runs and making cuts?

[still_stirrin]

...There we go again making assumptions...

The only "assumption" I am making about you is "the burr under your saddle". You seem to be very defensive here and take all the comments as an attack towards you. They are not intended that way.

There are many opinions and recommendations given by many experienced distillers...a perspective with immeasurable value to the OP and any of the follow on novices who might read this thread. Giving advice which benefits the masses is greater than promoting processes for which only a few can replicate with any degree of success, not that either is better than the other, simply more success for a hobbiest with less experience.

Hanson, I apologize for the deraillment of your original inquiry on behalf of ALL the participants here. Hopefully, we can keep the "value added" discussions and eliminate the offensive/defensiveness from successive responses.
ss

[MichiganCornhusker]

MCH, i was a little disappointed this didn't rhyme, so i had a whack at fixing it...:

Thank you, my friend, for taking the time,
To improve on my comments by making them rhyme!

I hope though 'twas prose, I did not offend,
To criticize others, I did not intend.

I share my experience, for all that may read,
It shouldn't be taken as gospel or creed.

I've said my piece, I'll now let it stand,
Contributing to this thread, a novice's strand.

[Hanson423]

MCH, i was a little disappointed this didn't rhyme, so i had a whack at fixing it...:

Thank you, my friend, for taking the time,
To improve on my comments by making them rhyme!

I hope though 'twas prose, I did not offend,
To criticize others, I did not intend.

I share my experience, for all that may read,
It shouldn't be taken as gospel or creed.

I've said my piece, I'll now let it stand,
Contributing to this thread, a novice's strand.

Lol! Nice!

[googe]

I've had a rum like that mch, forgot to label it and confused it with a bottle I'd blended, till I realized what I'd done it tasted pretty good. good ingredients is the key. Saying that, I still like cuts as I can get multiple flavors from the one run. I think we as hobby distillers owe it to ourselves to try different processes. Do cuts, don't do cuts, do different blending etc etc, if you love doing something, why not do it the best you can?.

[HDNB]

MCH, i was a little disappointed this didn't rhyme, so i had a whack at fixing it...:

Thank you, my friend, for taking the time,
To improve on my comments by making them rhyme!

I hope though 'twas prose, I did not offend,
To criticize others, I did not intend.

I share my experience, for all that may read,
It shouldn't be taken as gospel or creed.

I've said my piece, I'll now let it stand,
Contributing to this thread, a novice's strand.

nice work! i'm a little embarrassed with my attempt.

ok gawddammit. what's this idiot proof recipe? i got a black belt in idiot, i'll take all the help i can get, bet i can still screw the pooch on it.

It would be nice if you took my word for it that my product does not seem to cause those ill effects since I have a whole lot more experience with my stuff than you do. I am not a rocket scientist and not so conceited that I would think that no one else could replicate my results.

[jb-texshine]

I bet it's a deep ,dark family secret.

[cob]

there is much to be learned about the "measure of a man" by reading his words.

it took little time to read 67 posts by steelmb in order from the first 7 in 2013 to the rest

that start back up in may of this year.

I recommend reading them in order to see what you will learn.

hanson423 sorry about the hijack.

[HDNB]

there is much to be learned about the "measure of a man" by reading his words.

it took little time to read 67 posts by steelmb in order from the first 7 in 2013 to the rest

that start back up in may of this year.

I recommend reading them in order to see what you will learn.

hanson423 sorry about the hijack.

shee-it. i did 5 batches last month. what am i doing wrong? am i cuttin g all the good stuff out? I only git 8%. shit. i need this recipe like a crack whore jone'sen 3 day

Did 2 batches in 2014. The yield was not spectacular. I ended up with about 12% of the mash as 50% ABV. The taste was much as I remember most home-brew tasting with quite a harsh bite to it. Anyway I still enjoyed it (maybe because the project was still new for me.

Did 3 batches in 2015. I changed my recipe a little. Jackpot! For essentially the same amount of fruit and sugar I ended up wit h 25% of the mash as 50% ABV. The taste is also great now! No harsh home-brew taste at all.

[Hank Reardon]

All you all should take some lessons in humility. Hubris is on display here, and there is also some good feedback too.

As an elderly part of this group, all involved in the festival of the monthly curse should make amends and start anew. Folks should have the Freedom to like what they like, learn what they can, and move on.

Remember one thing from the great Antonin Scalia:! " talent is unevenly distributed." If you do that, you may wonder which side of the curve you reside, but you won't get caught up in either the naysaying perfection or the sanctimonious seniority discussions. Just a little old school $.02.

[shadylane]

I was reading Taters post "Distilling Adive" I tried using the search tool but I was not able to find anything.
Maybe I missed it but I didn't see anything. Anyway this is what he said
"Catch some of the output and rub it between and all over your hands.
Move your hands from arms length toward your face, see how close you have to get to smell it.
Feel how fast it evaporates.
Feel when you rub it between your hands whether it feels oily or slippery (like soap) or scrunchy. "

What should moonshine smell and taste like? I've had apple pie shine but I've never had plain shine.
What should shine feel like?
These might be silly questions but I would appreciate any help.
I'm assuming shine does tast like your normal whisky.

Everybody's moonshine smells and tastes different.
Depending on the ingredients fermented, how it was distilled, cut and aged etc...
The shine will taste, smell and feel different as the run progresses
Learning what to keep for blending takes experience that can only be learned by doing.

[Bushman]

+1 on what Shadylane is saying. It takes practice, they say women have a better sense for this than men usually and I used my wife to help me decide for a long time and still use her on occasion when I do a new recipe. Also when I am doing something new I make more cuts in smaller amounts. As you gain experience you will find that with known recipes to you (you have done multiple runs) that cuts are easier and can be done in larger containers.

There is no substitute for doing and doing means gaining experience, if you had tried the first stuff I made I could tell you it was great but my wife would tell you the truth (she keeps me honest).

[HDNB]

All you all should take some lessons in humility. Hubris is on display here, and there is also some good feedback too.

I apologize if my comment seems sarcastic. i was serious...i thought i wanted this recipe.
i make an average of two runs a week. some has been very nice, others...not so much. I've poured out hundreds of gallons in the last few years (never considered making vodka) if the recipe was not worth further work.
my goal or hope is 8% of wash volume, and that is as high as i can get.

now that i'm without a glass of whiskey in my hands, enjoying my morning coffee...i have to say that AG has spoiled me and yes, i follow kiwistiller's guide to cuts. it simply makes a superior beverage.
I realize now this recipe will do me no good. To pull 25% of wash volume at 50%abv, it has to be a ferment in the 14% range, so it almost for sure has to be made with table sugar. Unfortunately sugar does not do it for me any longer.

plus, sugar costs 4x more than grain...yep, i'm a whiskey snob. And a cheap one, at that.

Hanson423, hope i'm not derailing this further, i was reiterating your ask from up there ^^^

Would you mind explaining your process of how you do it to me?

which remains a secret...

[Mikey-moo]

I love brandy. I adore Cognac. I used to think Remy Martin VSOP was the mutt's nuts until I was introduced to the XO. Now I still love brandy and still adore Cognac. I really enjoy the VSOP but because I know that 'better' exists it's a little bit less special.

It's true what they say - ignorance is bliss.

[Hound Dog]

It's true what they say - ignorance is bliss.

[steelmb]

Ok, this is looking somewhat overwhelming as there seem to be a number of posts that require/deserve a response and I am somewhat busy in the summer but I will try get through them. This maybe should be taken to a new thread, but the other posts are here so I am not sure about that. If Hanson would like me to take it to another thread, then I will.

Steelmb, did you once try double runs and making cuts?

I did try doing the cut thing, for the first 2 - 3 runs. It was a PITA and the end result wasn't any better than what I do now. Plus I ended up with product that I wasn't sure what to do with. I still taste and check each collection for ABV and then it gets poured into my larger storage vessel. The end result is real good according to my palette. So from my experience cuts are way more trouble than they are worth. Obviously doing cuts work for many here but not for me. I long ago gave up trying to make anything that resembled store bought stuff. I am also not going to chase making something that resembles what others here make. I want to make something that I like as should everyone in this hobby. I do have intentions of trying some other recipes but this one is working for me and I have other fish to fry around this place before spending time on other recipes.

I have never double distilled anything. My still is not real double distilling friendly. However I generally don't discuss my setup because it does does not adhere to the rules of this forum and other aspects of it some people may feel are dangerous and should not be discussed here and I am not going to get into any debate over that. I am in the process of putting together a smaller still (34 liters) to possibly produce some neutral for the girlfriend's hobby and for recipe development. If I make a bad batch with the one I have now that could be a whole lot of nasty product to find a use for.

[T-Pee]

However I generally don't discuss my setup because it does does not adhere to the rules of this forum and other aspects of it some people may feel are dangerous and should not be discussed here and I am not going to get into any debate over that.

That says more about your practices than anything else I've read from you.

tp

[Bushman]

I have just sent a few PM's to members about the flaming here on this thread. Steelmb said he will not discuss his method of cuts or lack there of. Since MCH has offered to experiment with Steelmb's method let's wait and here his results. Thanks to everyone for there thoughts and in put but again let's keep this thread civil as we as an administrative team do not like locking threads if we can help it.
Thanks
Bushman

[der wo]

Thank you for the answer.
What recipes do you use for your single-run-no-cuts-method?
I cannot imagine it for all grain, because the stripping runs are really dirty normally. But a low grain sugarhead like All Bran or a neutral wash like birdwatchers perhaps is not bad after airing.

Edit: And what abv have the mashes?

[Hound Dog]

Would you mind explaining your process of how you do it to me?

which remains a secret...

All that and it's still a secret.. ....

[Kegg_jam]

.... And there it is, T-Pee has spoken.

Hope the OP has gotten the advice he was looking for because his thread has gotten trashed.

Knowledge is Power. Take control over what goes into your drink. Learn to shape it into what you like. It's part of what makes this hobby fun.

Or just throw it all together and hope for the best.... Whichever floats your boat.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Since MCH has offered to experiment with Steelmb's method let's wait and here his results.

There's no experiment that I'm going to do that will resolve this thread! It's devolved into a polarized rant about cuts.
OP was asking about "moonshine". We can't even agree on a description of what the hell moonshine even is without guns being drawn.

All I can offer is what I already have.
I did a stripping run for a very simple corn malt whiskey, I tasted it, and I liked it enough that I kept 4 bottles as-is, white.
It's very full flavored, tons of corn and a perceived sweetness. Not much burn, heads and tails are quite present but not overwhelming.
I filtered it 3 times to try to get the oils off the top. It ain't crystal clear. It is 90 proof.

This is what I can imagine, right or wrong, that my granddad might have brewed up back in his day out on the back 40, way before the days of HD.
Likker made from simple ingredients, malted in the creek, run once, nothing tossed. I believe this stuff is one reason cocktails were developed.

I'm not suggesting this is how to make whiskey. It's not how I'm going to make whiskey.
But I am going to start pulling small bits out of my larger stripping runs to put together a one-run wide-cuts "Rustic Whiskey" collection for myself.

Then I'll do the spirit run.

[Hanson423]

Would you mind explaining your process of how you do it to me?

which remains a secret...

All that and it's still a secret.. ....

No he told me his processes. Just not on this post.

[Mikey-moo]

Don't forget now that Cachaca is very popular in Brasil and that's just a single "keep everything" run... might be time to experiment with my jaggery goor

[Hound Dog]

Don't forget now that Cachaca is very popular in Brasil and that's just a single "keep everything" run... might be time to experiment with my jaggery goor

I never heard that before. Here is a link to an interesting site..

http://www.abelhacachaca.com/the-step-b ... g-cachaca/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Note step #5 with a quick explanation of the distillation..........


5. Guide us through the different stages of the distillation process:

Once fermentation comes to an end (all sucrose turned into alcohol), this produces the cachaça wine, or vinho. We transfer this to the alambiques, or copper pot stills, in the next room in the distillery. These stills have a capacity of 400 Litres. About 10% of the distillate known as the heart, or curaçao, is used to produce the final Cachaça, so about 40litres per distillation. The remainder, known as the heads and tails, is recycled as are all by-products in production.

[underdog]

Aw heck, this thread is trashed anyway,

There's a lot that I don't know about, but I do know Cachaça. Mrs Dog is from Brazil and we still have a home there - where we spend three to four months every year. Cachaça can be purchased almost anywhere in Brazil. You can get a one liter bottle of 51 (a lower-quality brand) at any supermarket for about the equivalent of five American dollars. Since the government slaps a 40% (invisible) tax on hooch, you're really paying three dollars a liter. You get what you pay for.

It will get you drunk. It will also get you sick. I can't get it close enough to my nose to take a sip of it neat, but it's drinkable if you mash it up with a bunch of lime and sugar to make a caipirinha, the semi-official national drink of Brazil (note that anyone there with sense orders their caipirinha made with vodka.) Cachaça has a long history, dating to the slave times, where it was an inexpensive way to perk up sugar-cutting slaves and dull their pain. It didn't have cuts then, and judging from what my nose tells me, they don't make them now.

There are supposedly "artisan" Cachaças that cost much more and may make cuts, but any way you cut it, it's still the equivalent of Birdwatcher's - with the same high ABV sugar head bite. I don't drink it when I'm in Brazil, and no one I know does, either.

You may now consider this thread completely trashed.