Starch conversion chart

[Mudturtle]

Is there a starch conversion chart anywhere? Looking at the enzymash. Mash procedure it gives corn and rye and such but nothing on oats etc.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Check out Tried & True whiskey recipes, not just for the grain bills, but also for the protocols. The recipes include a wealth of info about how to convert grain starches, and at what temps.

[NcHooch]

According to Beersmith , flaked oats has the same yield as flaked corn ...that means that, all things being equal, the two have the same sugar potential for making beer (pound for pound).

[NcHooch]

...I have my doubts about oats being as easy to mash tho.

[shadylane]

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/wha ... alt-yields" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[captainshooch]

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[MidnightThunder]

A brewing book I read has a good chart of the temperatures that different enzymes are active and what their functions are. I will post it if I find it, but what I remember is 113 F to 131F is a protein rest, breaks down proteins that cause a thick mash. More for brewing but not a bad idea to use so your mash can be thinner when you charge your boiler, avoiding scorching on your elements. 131 F to 150F is beta-amylase, the main enzyme that breaks down starches into fermentable sugars. This is where you want to keep your temps for anywhere from half hour to two hours. The longer the mash, the more starches convert. 154F to 165F is alpha-amylase, which will convert starches into unfermentable sugars, good in brewing, useless in distilling.

[still_stirrin]

Good stuff here, Mudturttle.

Looking at the chart that Cap'nHooch posted, oats (malted or flaked) is similar to wheat (malted or puffed). They both have a high protein content which benefits more from the protein rest in the mash protocol. That's a temperature step (during the raise of temperatures) at 120-125*F for 15-25 minutes. It breaks down long chain proteins to get them ready for sugar conversion, best at 148-152*F.

Corn, on the other hand, needs a gelatinization step (180-190*F) before saccharification at 148-152*F. So, corn is best processed "top down" and oats (and wheat) "bottom up".

If you process the corn separately for its gelatinization while mashing your oats with the barley up through the protein rest step, then combine the two for you saccharification at 148-152*F, you'll maximize your yield from the grains. But, it is a more complex process. YMMV.
ss

[rager]

this is one of the best links ive come across to date on starch conversion. i suggest you read it a couple times

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... Conversion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[LWTCS]

Dunno much bout ease.

But dad makes a purty good smoked oat whiskey.....
Hope it's what's cookin when he's fully operational.

[Mudturtle]

Awesome thanks for all the info y'all

[NcHooch]

Good stuff here, Mudturttle.

Looking at the chart that Cap'nHooch posted, oats (malted or flaked) is similar to wheat (malted or puffed). They both have a high protein content which benefits more from the protein rest in the mash protocol. That's a temperature step (during the raise of temperatures) at 120-125*F for 15-25 minutes. It breaks down long chain proteins to get them ready for sugar conversion, best at 148-152*F.

Corn, on the other hand, needs a gelatinization step (180-190*F) before saccharification at 148-152*F. So, corn is best processed "top down" and oats (and wheat) "bottom up".

If you process the corn separately for its gelatinization while mashing your oats with the barley up through the protein rest step, then combine the two for you saccharification at 148-152*F, you'll maximize your yield from the grains. But, it is a more complex process. YMMV.
ss

What SS said there is true , but I'd be more inclined to throw it all in one pot and do the ol' 3-step corn cook on the whole show.
Heat (and stir) to 125, rest for 30, heat (and stir) to 155, rest for 30, heat (and stir) to 185, rest for 30.
That'll give you the protein rest for the oats and the gelatinization for the corn in one process, and this process tends to minimize you burning your grain since you only need to stir while the heat is on. Anyway, chill to 150 after the final 30 minute rest, and add the malted barley. mash at 145-150 until conversion is complete.

[still_stirrin]

I just did a cob yesterday.

I boiled 5 gallons of water and shut the burner off. While I was boiling the water, I ran 10 lb. of the cracked corn (TSC vintage) through my roller mill to grind it a little finer. Then, I added the corn to the water and stirred. The temperature stabillized at about 180-185*F. The corn turned into a paste-like heavy slurry.

Next, I added the high temp enzymes and stirred the pot for about 15 minutes. The enzymes broke the stickiness down and it became more of a wet slush from the sticky mess before the enzymes were added. I covered the pot and let it stand for 45 minutes, stirring it every 10-15 minutes.

Next, since the corn mash had cooled down to about 150-152, I added the Sebstar-GL amylase enzyme, again stirring it into the pot (15-20 minutes). Once again covered it and this time let it be for an hour & 1/2 while I walked the dog.

When I got back, I cracked 8 lb of American 2-row malt. The corn mash had cooled to about 145-148*F, so I stirred in the 2-row. I continued to "fold in" the grains stirring continuously and also checking the temperature as it drifted. In the meantime, I've started another pot of water boiling and add it as needed to the mash to bring the temperature back up to my 150*F target.

Next, I folded in the 2-3/4 lb of flaked "quick" oats into the mash. Again, adding water and stirring to maintain the 150*F temperature. By now, I had about 8 gallons of water in the tun and the mash was quite thick (typical of this point in a mash). I transferred the mash into my insulated mash/lauter tun and covered for a couple of hours. I checked it every 30 minutes and stirred it up.

After 2 hours, there is noticeable conversion occuring inside the vessel. I added a couple more gallons of hot water, stirring it vigorously, bringing the temperature up to 150-152*F getting it ready to "bed down" for night.

Morning light brought a mash tun full of fully converted mash ready to begin the vorlauf/lauter process, since I don't ferment "on the grain" as many, if not most here do. Recirculating the mash liquor for 60 minutes set a very good grain bed in the tun and the runoff is quite clear (but colored like a corn & barley beer would be). No sticky, stuck mash running with the overnight mash.

Finally, ready for runoff into the fermenters...net volume 9+ gallons of 1.070 cob in the fermenter. Aerate and ready for yeast.

Conclusion of the story....I use a "bi-directional" mash protocol, a little more involved, but quite successful in outcome. Tend to the corn first and then deal with the barley and oats, which I didn't fret too much over the protein rest, or lack there-of. You could just as easily ferment on the grain if that's your method of choice.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I just did a cob yesterday.

Very nice write-up, SS, felt like I was right there!

[masonsjax]

154F to 165F is alpha-amylase, which will convert starches into unfermentable sugars, good in brewing, useless in distilling.

Not entirely useless in distilling. Those unfermentable sugars don't all stay that way, much of that sugar gets further broken into fermentable short-chain sugars by beta amylase during the mash.

Alpha amylase still works below 154F, albiet slower, so those two enzymes work well together in the range we typically mash for distilling. That's why body/mouthfeel (fermentability) can be tweaked for beer by changing the mash temp. Higher temp favors alpha, lower favors beta, but both are working together regardless.