New Apple Press

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Wooday
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New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

Gentleman, in my quest to top 150 gallons of cider this year, I needed a bigger/better press than the harbor freight bearing press and cookie tray hack job from last year.

This is bigger.
press frame
press frame
4x4 pressure treat uprights, 2x8's across the top with a 4x4 between them, 2x6's on the bottom, 30"x30" tray.

More pics as I fabricate the H-beam, catch tray and press plate.
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Expat
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Expat »

Been wanting to do this myself. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the build! :thumbup:
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by cranky »

Nice Wooday :thumbup: I am also looking forward to seeing how this goes. My goal this year was 100 gallons but the wife started getting bitchy at 50. I told her that you were trying for 150 and her comment was "He must be single" :lol: I built a bigger press this year and now am planning on modifying it to handle even more apples at once.
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

cranky wrote:Nice Wooday :thumbup: I am also looking forward to seeing how this goes. My goal this year was 100 gallons but the wife started getting bitchy at 50. I told her that you were trying for 150 and her comment was "He must be single" :lol: I built a bigger press this year and now am planning on modifying it to handle even more apples at once.
Ha! When I told my wife she said "A hundred fifty gallons? You have fun with that..."
At least we will have room for it all at the new house, until I run it :)

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Re: New Apple Press

Post by cranky »

I'm sure my wife would be less apt to complain about my apple stuff if my garage and yard weren't such a mess and the house remodeling was done. 150 gallons of juice is only 2400 LBS of apples isn't it? I think my setup can handle up to 500LBS in a day, although I usually shoot for 300. So it would only take me roughly a week to do that many... :problem: ...that seems perfectly reasonable to me :crazy:

I saw a guy on the you tube who had a big air powered jack in his setup and was pressing what looked like 200-300 LBS of pulp at a whack. It would be easy to press 150 gallons that way. I'm now plotting to do something similar some day :D
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

Half the maple is resawn for the the 24"x24" press plates
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by goose eye »

Make sure your ram don't bottom out.
A lot of pressure if it do.

So I'm tole
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

Build is complete.
We will see if I can pick enough late apples this year to make it worth while.
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by cranky »

Wooday wrote:Build is complete.
We will see if I can pick enough late apples this year to make it worth while.
Good deal Wooday :thumbup: I ran into that kind of problem last year when I made the chopper. Apple season was pretty much over but I still had to manage to pick more just to test. Looks like you will be all set for next year :D
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

Reviving this old thread to share my success.

Last year was a total bust for apples.
This year was better but the season peaked early due to a hot hot september. About all the trees at my main orchard dropped the week before I could get there to pick, so I only got 400lb of apples.
I need to fiddle with my method with the new press. I'm making 3" deep cheeses and probably need to double that; a 30 gallon barrel full of apples only yielded 8 gallons of juice, pressed fresh from the grinder.
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Soft batch »

I do much better with thinner cheeses, thicker tends to leave moist pulp in the middle. I get about a 3 to 1 yield of apples to juice with my setup. Never weighed my apples, so I don't know the lbs to juice ratio. About every 3 5 gallon buckets of apples I get 5 gallons of cider. After the 1 pressing, I fluff and re-press each cheese.
When I'm in full production, I toss the bottom cheese, the combine the next two as a new bottom, then fill two new cheeses from fresh pulp, 2-3" deep.
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by cranky »

I've weighed apples before, a bucket full of apples that average 80 apples to a 5 gallon bucket weighed 20 Lbs. 150-160 apples to a bucket weighs 24 Lbs. I think on average it is 23 Lbs to a 5 gallon bucket.
Wooday wrote: a 30 gallon barrel full of apples only yielded 8 gallons of juice, pressed fresh from the grinder.
Using the above math if you are talking about 30 gallons of apples before grinding that should have come to about 120 - 144 Lbs of apples. I figure on about 16 Lbs of apples to a gallon so I would count on 7.5 - 9 gallons of juice from 30 gallons of apples. Seems you are right where it should be.

My method is not that far from Soft batch's. I use bags and fill them and press them with a set of slats between them then remove them and do another stack. Once I have done everything I shake the pulp up and stack as many bags as I can without slats between them and press a second time.
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

goose eye wrote:Make sure your ram don't bottom out.
A lot of pressure if it do.

So I'm tole
I took this advice to heart.

My assistant did not, and now the press is out of commission until we can replace a top beam
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Re: New Apple Press

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Oh no! When I used a scissor jack my frame never even made a peep. I swapped that out for a 6 ton bottle jack last year - it creaks and groans a bit if I get too aggressive. I find it better to build up some pressure, then let it sit for a minute, then apply more. Trying to squeeze all at once is not the most effective and is harder on the equipment.

My press bucket blew out on the last squeeze of the year Saturday (was I trying extra hard to get the last drop?). Good timing. Left some apples on the trees, but the freezers and fermenters are full and I gave I a bunch away. Ended up with 55 gallons this year.
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Euphoria »

It's gettin' close to grinding and squeezing time...
Not much for building stuff, so I bought my equipment. Anyway, here's my set-up. My Maximizer grinder and my 5 Gal. press with stainless steel basket. Not industrial size, but it works for me.
wine 002.JPG
wine 001.JPG
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by yakattack »

That should do you well. Make sure to bolt her down when you do use her.
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
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Re: New Apple Press

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Soft batch wrote:Oh no! When I used a scissor jack my frame never even made a peep. I swapped that out for a 6 ton bottle jack last year - it creaks and groans a bit if I get too aggressive. I find it better to build up some pressure, then let it sit for a minute, then apply more. Trying to squeeze all at once is not the most effective and is harder on the equipment.

My press bucket blew out on the last squeeze of the year Saturday (was I trying extra hard to get the last drop?). Good timing. Left some apples on the trees, but the freezers and fermenters are full and I gave I a bunch away. Ended up with 55 gallons this year.
55 Gallons isn't bad at all.

Maybe a 20 ton press was a bit too much...
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Re: New Apple Press

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Wooday wrote:Maybe a 20 ton press was a bit too much...
I thought that when I was looking at jacks, I thought about a 20 ton but I already had a 12 ton from jacking my house and figured if a 12 ton could lift a house it could press apples. I think I also overbuilt the press just a skosh. I was surprised you broke your press, it looked plenty beefy. I also put pressure on, let it rest a bit then add more pressure as it relaxes.
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

cranky wrote:
Wooday wrote:Maybe a 20 ton press was a bit too much...
I thought that when I was looking at jacks, I thought about a 20 ton but I already had a 12 ton from jacking my house and figured if a 12 ton could lift a house it could press apples. I think I also overbuilt the press just a skosh. I was surprised you broke your press, it looked plenty beefy. I also put pressure on, let it rest a bit then add more pressure as it relaxes.
We were fine until we were at the end of the press and just *had* to go that last 1/4" to bottom out the jack :evil:
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Re: New Apple Press

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I built my grinder and press a few years back. The tensile strength of wood is incredibly high. I don't remember all my calcs any longer, but I have 4 uprights for the cross beam. Each one is Aspen (not particularly strong wood) and 1x2 inches cross section. My cross beam on top is 2 8" LVLs glued together. The bottom support is 3 of the same LVLs and a couple shims of Aspen (just wanted to make a wide base to support the tray). Through bolts with washers and nuts to join it all. I run it with a 6 ton bottle jack and it is rock solid.

I've been running on a regular HDPE 6.5 gallon brew bucket that I've drilled lots of weep holes in, and lined with a mesh bag before filling with the pomace. A 2" thick press plate sized to the bucket ID (~12") is the press plate that supports the bottle jack. All that sits on a stainless pizza tray a bit larger than the bucket, with one drain hole drilled at the perimeter for the collection bucket. It's worked well. I don't weight my apples, have a reasonable idea of the volume I pick. My yields are anywhere from 1.2 - 2.8 gallons / bushel (those 1.2 were REALLY dry pomace). Most varieties I pick press out about 2 gal/bshl. I do let the apples macerate between 2-24 hrs to help the yield, this makes a decent improvement.

This winter I'm replacing my HDPE bucket with a thick walled stainless pot as the HDPE bulges scarily at the end of each press and I've been afraid of a blow out like Soft Batch mentioned. Now I need to get a better bit to drill the bucket.

I spend one day a month ago pressing apples at a professional orchard/cidery. I talked to the technicians about their press (a massive hydraulic system rising from the floor). Did some quick math and calculated that my 6 tons over the area of my 12" diameter bucket developed a similar pressure to the system the cidery used. The ratio may be useful for those of you building presses with larger square cheeses.

One design feature that I've found to be useful in my press... I elevated the press bucket support cross beams high enough so the pizza tray must collector is above a tall collection bucket (6.5 gallon). And that bucket rests on a collapsible support to keep it off the ground about 4 inches. High enough to slip a little tasting glass under the collection bucket spigot which is nice for friends who join the pressing and want to try a quick taste of the juice.

Improvements that would have been nice include a wider span between my uprights (so I could fit a larger collection bucket and tray. I'm limited to 15.5" which I've found to be a bit tight now that I'm upgrading to a stainless steel pot. And I will be drilling the weep holes in my new pot in six helical paths so that regardless of the plunge depth of the press, there are always at least 6 weep holes to drain off the must. I did a more cubic pattern in my HDPE and when the pomace is pressed hard (and therefore dense) and packs up a little around the plunger supporting the bottle jack, I can collect to much must that wont drain right and threatens to overflow the 2" thick wooden plunger to get at my bottle jack.

Sorry for the long note, don't mean to hijack the thread.

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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

Got the press fixed and ended the year with 50 gallons.
It's just about time to empty the kegs from 2015 to make some room.
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by raketemensch »

DetroitDIY, can you post some pics? You described it well, but I could use a few thousand words....

Wooday, are you saying you have 2 year old ferments to run?
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

raketemensch wrote:
Wooday, are you saying you have 2 year old ferments to run?
Perry and cider have been bulk aging under co2 since December 2015. They have matured nicely but they just aren't a good "daily drinker". Too complex. I think they would make an interesting brandy.
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Re: New Apple Press

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Hey Raketemensch, you asked a long time ago, but I had put my grinder and press into storage so couldn’t send you the images. Finally pulled it out for this years activity. Sorry for the delay.

Frame to support and manage the loads of both the apple grinder and the apple press. The frame is of aspen (the white wood) and construction LVLs (the “ply” wood). Uprights (4) are 1” x 1 7/8” cross section. Crossmembers are 2 LVLs on top, 3 LVLx and 2 aspen boards on bottom. LVLs are 7” x 1 ¾” cross section and aspen boards in bottom are 7” x ¾” cross section. Beam deflection is FL/AE: Force (from the hydraulic press, up to 6 tons… 12,000 lbs in my case), Length (side to side distance between the bolts), Area moment of inertia (cross section of the beam… base x height^3… b x h x h x h), E… Modulus of elasticity (material property of the wood). All that really comes down to is you don’t want the length of the beam to be any longer than you need it to allow space for the apple press bucket and tray, and you do want to have a good amount of height in your cross members to improve their stiffness dramatically so they won’t deflect and break.
Apple Press (1).jpg
Next three images are of the removable base. I wanted it removable to allow it to collapse more for storage. When installed, it helps to improve the stability of the press. I also thought I may want the base to just fold up, without removing it. I also sized the height of the base to support the collection bucket and still allow someone to open the spigot and pour off a small tasting cup… a design feature that friends have enjoyed with helping with a pressing. Of course, you could just shove your cup into the stream falling into the bucket, but I’m working with kids sometimes. :)
Apple Press (2).jpg
Apple Press (3).jpg
Apple Press (4).jpg
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Re: New Apple Press

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Next two images are a wooden disk that I place under the press bucket so that the press force is distributed and essentially trying to compress the HDPE bucket rather than an unsupported bottom which would put a lot of shear stress where the bottom of the bucket connects to the cylindrical side wall. It works fine for 6 gallons of liquid (~48 lbs) but not so well when approaching that 6 tons (12,000 lbs) that the jack will develop.
Apple Press (9).jpg
Apple Press (10).jpg
This image is the inside of the press bucket. I’ve drilled 7/32” holes for the juice to flow through. These are in a kind of triangular or diamond arrangement. With a ring of holes at something like every inch or so. This I would do differently in the future… I would not make rings of holes, but instead make several helixes with holes spaced along those helixes. The reason is that when I’m pressing the pomace, it starts to build a little mote of juice about the press block. I’ve found that when the pressed pomace has more or less plugged up the ring of holes at the bottom of the press block, then the juice flows out the top open holes, but between the top open holes and the plugged up holes below, the juice mote cannot drain. If I keep pressing to squish the pomace below the press block and expose the plugged up holes to allow the juice to drain below, before I can press that far, the top of my press block sometimes falls below the juice mote level and the juice flows over the press block which gets other parts sticky with juice that I would rather didn’t.
Apple Press (6).jpg
If I drilled the holes in a helix arrangement, then each ring wouldn’t be some 1+ inches in elevation from one another, but essentially form a continuous drain path option at somewhere around the mote circumference. May sound confusing, but trust me, it’s helpful.

Next image shows the press bucket (with the holes), on a stainless pizza tray (with one hole pierced into it over where it extends over the collection bucket), and the collection bucket beneath with the spigot. That thin layer of wood is inserted above the pizza tray and below the press bucket. It gets fully bathed in the juice during the pressing process.
Next image is the same with a mesh liner inserted into the press bucket. This prevents the little apple pomice bits from squeezing through the 7/32” holes. And to pull the compressed apple block out of the bucket to throw in the compost or give to the hens afterwards.
Apple Press (5).jpg
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Re: New Apple Press

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The following three images are of the press mechanism. The first shows the 6 ton jack, and a couple of ¾” – 1 “ thick wood layers in a pusher block to help distribute the force from the bottom of the bottle jack to a wider area without bending/breaking the pusher block. I also jig sawed out a custom fit little top ring that allows the bottle jack to set into it in a consistent location, relative to the pusher block, which is centered relative to the large X (just a fancy gap filler), which is centered with the thick press block (made of 2, 1” boards cut into a round. The top of the press block has dados cut into it to receive the X gap filler. And the press block is just about the right size diameter for the press bucket. All this helps to align the axis of compression to promote a uniform distribution of load onto the apple pomace, and helps to keep the system stable.
Apple Press (11) copy.jpg
This next image are the same parts, but I’m showing you the bottom side of the pusher block under the jack and the press block next to the pomace. You can see here that the pusher block also indexes to the X gap filler, and that the press block on the bottom is flat (as you might have guessed). I have two of these X gap fillers, this shorter one and a longer one, I start with the shorter one, press for a while, then unload the jack, replace the shorter X with the longer X and press everything further. This effectively gives me a longer stroke length than the bottle jack is capable of on it’s own.
Apple Press (12).jpg
And this image is the assembly of all those bits.
Apple Press (13).jpg
Here you can see the entire press… only there is no pomace in it for me to be squeezing at the moment. Notice I slipped in another layer of wood between the piston of the bottle jack and my top cross member. The force is so concentrated at that location that I want to distribute it out and use a sacrificial piece of wood which will get damaged by the loads from the jack. This wood is a little slip of a Brazilian hardwood... harder than anything grown domestically in the US. Even one of these pieces I broke last year. :econfused:
Apple Press (33).jpg
And this last image is of an upgrade that is in the works, but not presently progressing. Had to find just the right size stainless bucket… unfortunately it is a fancy (expensive) one that is probably making all the brewers weep. I plan to drill my helix holes all round the perimeter (but not in the bottom where it has a copper plate formed inside the stainless). The locations for the drill holes in the helix pattern are actually all polka dotted onto the bucket. If you zoom in you may see them. Problem was that I need to get really good bit capable of drilling through the stainless. My woodworking bits weren’t doing the job. The main reason for adopting this steel press bucket is that I am really taxing the limits of the HDPE press bucket I have. I can see that when I'm developing a good load, the bottom circumference of the bucket is stretched out quite a bit. I expect that I'm not getting all the juice out of the pomace that I could, and that if I compressed further I may likely burst the bucket. The stainless bucket should take care of that for me.
Apple Press (16).jpg
One other thing, all fasteners that are going to touch the pomace / juice are stainless (all metals really). And I've put several coats of a water based polyurethane finish on the wood to prevent it from absorbing the liquid. Seems to be working well so far and I've used this system for 3 years now.

I’ll post on the apple grinder later…
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Re: New Apple Press

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Here’s the apple grinder…

There are lots of good ways to make an apple grinder This one was easy enough to do with wood working tools, and is nice for working with family and friends (especially kids) who want the “joy” of turning the crank and the safety of no power source other than people.

The first image shows the grinder box from above where you can see the milling drum inside and the joyful hand crank connected to it on the outside. Second image is the the grinder box clamped to the frame. You can see that I have to hang it way off the bottom support so that the ground apple pomace can fall into a bucket placed beneath, and it just barely gives me clearance for my hand to turn the crank without skinning my knuckles. And when I’m not carful about my setup, my knuckles look like I’m a bully. :thumbdown:
Apple Mill (1).jpg
Apple Mill (8).jpg
I would like to integrate a cleat into the bottom of this grinder box so that it more or less clips / hangers from the stand, rather than require such external clamps. Even these clamps are deceiving. When I’m really going to run it, I jam wood between the far side of the stand uprights and clamp that side of the box to the stand as well, else the set up is not stable enough.

The third image shows the inside of the box, where the grinding drum is best seen. The drum has 6 helixes of grinder bolt heads, 11-12 heads per row. On the right side of the image, the crank is connected through the wall. On the left side the grinder drum has a fat (1.5” diameter) dowel connected to it’s center axis. This protrudes into a pocket that is clamped by 2 C channels in the wood round you can see next to the drum. I can unscrew this top half from outside the grinder box and remove the handle on the other side to allow me to remove the drum if I need to for cleaning or such.
Apple Mill (2).jpg
The six helixes of fasteners are spaced such that one of the bolt heads is presented to an apple at any given time. In other words, the helixes don’t overlap one another, least I oscillate from cutting one apple, to two apples, back to one, back to two, as the drum rotates. I wanted to avoid that to help promote a more even torque required to turn the drum. Not sure if it really makes much difference. :econfused:

This last image is of the assembly turned upside down. This is essentially the chute that the ground apple pomace will fall out of. The chute board at “10 O’clock” if you will, is pinned via dowels to the two sides of the grinder box at the bottom (what is closest to you in this view). The top of this chute board (farthest from view as shown) is generally pinched between the two side walls, but not otherwise connected or sealed. This allows me to angle the chute board to change the opening that the apples tend to settle in to be ground up. Too far open and the apples won’t tend to enter the grinding teeth as well. Too narrow a gap and the apples will tend to ride on top of the grinding teeth and tumble, but not fall into the wedge and become ground. Once I found the angle I liked, I pretty much set it and never change it.
Apple Mill (7).jpg
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Re: New Apple Press

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This first shot shows the grinder drum removed from the box. I’ve set the top the top half of the wood round (referred to above) on top of the 1.5” dowel stuck into the center of the grinding drum. Also, the drum and dowels are just a hair short for their fit into the grinding box, so I’m showing a purple plastic HDPE shim that I cut out and slip in between the dowel end and the box wall. It also likely helps a little bit to make a smoother surface as I rotate the drum.
Apple Mill (21).jpg
In the second view, you can see the bolt heads are leaning a bit and are not inserted truly radially with respect to the drum. This exposes one side of the fastener flanges to help bite into and chunk off portions of apple. The drum itself is made of 6 slabs of oak that I glued up into a chunk and then turned down to this 6” diameter block on the lathe. The fasteners are essentially 1” off of radial. So if pointing radial would be 3” (to the center of the 6” drum), these are pointed at a 2” position.
Apple Mill (19).jpg
This is a close up of the crank arm removed from the grinder box and drum. The handle uses a couple of bearings to connect it to the crank arm for smoother operation. There’s plenty of resistance from grinding the apples, I didn’t want more from a rough turning handle. You can also see a very long screw that connects the handle dowel portion to the grinding drum (through the box wall). This makes the connection, but since the fastener is at the center of rotation on the drum axis, it’s lousy for transferring torque and would just tend to unscrew if that were all I used. To transfer the torque I have two steel rods in the grinder drum, offset from the axis or rotation which insert into the two holes shown on the 1.5” dowel.
Apple Mill (12).jpg
Here is the receiving side of the grinder drum. There is a 1.5” bore to insert the handle. In the center is where the long screw makes it’s connection. The two hardened steel (not stainless, thus they look ugly after some contact with the apple acids) rods are protruding out on either side of the center, positioned to engage the two holes in the handle. The handle wasn’t seating quite right into the hole and it was causing the handle to wear on the side of the grinder box as it was cranked. The inclusion of these few copper wire bits helped to even out the bearing surface and make the handle turn without the damage to the grinder box.
Apple Mill (16).jpg
In addition to making this grinder box attach to my frame easier, I want to modify this to run off of a motor. I plan to use large to small reducing pulleys to step down the motor speed. Got some of the parts, need to find a cheap motor and design up the interface. Projects for the future.
Apple Mill (9).jpg
Hope this was helpful. Let me know if you need more in the way of dimensions that I used.

It’s a great project, and I found that there are a number of apple trees about the city that are on public property, or at the mall parking lot, or a neighbor’s tree where the apples are a nuisance. First year I made this I collected about 16.5 bushels of free apples and pressed 33.5 gallons of juice. :D

Cheers!
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Re: New Apple Press

Post by Wooday »

Update:
New baby.
No time to run.

Backlog of cider is now 80 gallons.

Lord help me...
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