Wheated Bourbon

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Wheated Bourbon

Postby boda getta » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:13 am

I'm thinking about making a AG Wheated bourbon w/ 70% crushed cracked corn, 20% red wheat and 10 malted barley. I also plan on using enzymes. I have a couple of questions, maybe Jimbo will jump in.

Wheat - I'm wondering about the favor difference between using raw wheat vs malted wheat. If using enzymes I don't think malted wheat will be needed for conversion, but I'm looking for favor. I'm planning on using Jimbo's method, except with enzymes, and hope the wheat will convert as well as the corn. the malted barley added for favor.

Any other suggestions, tips, advice etc welcome.

BG
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:59 am

Might find something in here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=44543&start=30

It's a very entertaining thread. From Jimbo: "In general 75/25 raw wheat/malted wheat makes a really fine drink. Im a big fan of 100% wheat whiskey."

Also a good discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55938
Last edited by MichiganCornhusker on Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby FullySilenced » Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:02 am

If your using enzymes... and just want wheat... no barley required...

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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby Bohunk » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:35 pm

I have a 15 gallon barrel of wheat bourbon ageing here, it's now one year old, and probably needs one more year to be world class. I used 20 lbs cracked corn, 5 lbs cracked wheat, 3.5 lbs cracked malt. Like my good friend Tim says, you don't need malt if your using enzymes, but I added it for flavor. I also used Safale 05 yeast. Boiled the whole thing, added the enzymes at the proper temp, put it in the fermentor and let her go.
Wonderful stuff, so smooth, like spring water. Hope I live another year, cause it's going to be good.

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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby shadylane » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:54 pm

Just my 2 cents worth
When using wheat in the grain bill, I prefer Wheat crystal malt.
Plain old ground up wheat, has kind of a dirty taste to me.
Malted wheat gives better flavors to the mash than unmalted.
And malt ferments better than grain
To me, wheat crystal malt has a richer and more balanced taste.
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby bilgriss » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:32 am

To me, wheat crystal malt has a richer and more balanced taste.


How much crystal are we talking? It tends to be a lot less fermentable than straight wheat malt, and tends to foam more. Are you using just a little for flavor?
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby shadylane » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:42 pm

Around 20% Although I've done 100% before.
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Wheated Bourbon - Part 2

Postby boda getta » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:25 pm

Getting closer to my Wheated Bourbon run. I talked to my brew store today; they do not have malted red wheat but have malted white wheat. They offer to mill my Tractor Supply cracked corn down to a coarse cornmeal. I don't want to order the red wheat and pay the high shipping charges and go with the white and hope I don't sacrifice much favor. I'm planning on a heavy wheat content with grain bill below. Note the amount of corn and wheat was selected largely due to ease of measurement - 1 full bag of corn + 1/2 bag of wheat.

35 Gals. Water
8 Gals. Back Set
50 lbs. cracked corn
25 lbs. malted white wheat
10 lbs. malted barley

I still plan on using enzymes, but due to the high malted grain content I'm thinking of using only SEBStar - HTL added when I bring the corn up to the 190'ish F seeping temp but not using the low temperature enzyme after the mash comes down to the 148 f range when I add the malted grain and just let the malt do the work there.

I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions, advice etc from any of you All Grain Pros.

BG

Thanks,
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby WIski » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:54 am

Adding 35 lbs of grain at 148 is going to drop your temp quite a bit........
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby shadylane » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:00 am

I'm not an All Grain Pro :lol:
If you split the mash, you could use Gluco in half of it.
To see if it helps with the conversion and whether the yeast likes glucose better than maltose sugar.
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby boda getta » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:36 am

Good point on the temp drop when adding 35 lbs malted grain; I will need to calculate strike temp and add malt above the 148 F mark.

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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby Jimbo » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:03 am

Hey Boda, sorry for the late response, just saw this thread. Did you do this run yet? How did it go?

Looks like a good plan and recipe. Youll thank the heavens for the high temp enzyme when youre cooking up that corn first step. It workable, but barely, without the enzyme, and much more enjoyable experience with the High Temp during the corn cook step. Dont short change that corn cook step. With corn meal I go 2 hours with a stirrer running (paint stirrer on drill) wrapped up tight at 185 or so, which is the temp it stabilizes at putting boiling water on it. For cracked corn 3 hours. Regarding malt or no malt, when using enzymes, its been my experience that things go MUCH smoother and predictable with real malt in there. There could be a lot of factors that affect me and not others (my water for example), but I have always had better success with malt in the mix, along with the enzymes. My guess is there's just something in malt that hasnt yet been duplicated with lab created enzymes, but that might just be me being romantic about mother nature again, I dunno. Regardless, malt is my friend and hastn let me down.
Let us know how it goes. Looks a delicious bourbon recipe. Cheers, Jimbo.
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby boda getta » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:10 pm

Thanks Jimbo. Yes, I mashed about 10 days ago. Decided to go with Makers Mark grain bill of 70% cracked corn, 14% malted barley and 16% malted wheat (HBS didn't have red so had to go with white). Used .36 ml/lb of. Corn only weight, hi temp at 185 f and low temp at 151 f strike temp when I added the malt. Did an iodine test about 2 hrs after adding malt and the conversion was complete. I sorta used a combination of you gumball Method and Boones. Did 2x 30'ish gal and including a feint hope to fill a one used 5 gal #3 keg I have. It
The TV was a shade under 1.00 I have it strained and ready to run as soon as my electronic stops jerking me around and runs my 240 line to power my new electric keg. I have high hopes, wish me luck.


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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby Jimbo » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:12 pm

Nice run. Doesnt sound like you need any luck, but good luck anywho.

cheers
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby Hank Reardon » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:24 pm

Just a bump on the thread wondering how things turned out.
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby boda getta » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:35 am

Just finished my 4th stripping run this morning; I ran all four up to 209'ish F and the 8 gals of low wines came in at a lowish 75 proof. I had hoped to do the stripping runs with my new electric boiler but my shop still isn't wired for 240 yet, so I just went gas. Hopefully the wiring will be done next week and I can do the spirit run electric. I plan to do a water shake-down cruise first, then 5 gals of UJ low-wine to get a feel of the electric set up, then on to the Wheated Bourbon run. I hope to end up with 5 gals for a 5 gal keg I have, but may be a little short even after a feint run. I have been playing around with old school lower barrel entry proofs and plan to go into the keg at 110-115 proof and leave it as long as I can stand.

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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby shadylane » Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:55 pm

boda getta wrote:Just finished my 4th stripping run this morning; I ran all four up to 209'ish F and the 8 gals of low wines came in at a lowish 75 proof.

Sounds about right :thumbup:

boda getta wrote: I had hoped to do the stripping runs with my new electric boiler but my shop still isn't wired for 240 yet

It might be a little slow but you could run the heater on 120v
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby boda getta » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:32 pm

Don't have the proper plug in for 120; the 240 will run through a 3 prong plug like my dryer uses. Hopefully it will all be done this week.

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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby boda getta » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:31 pm

Update to my Wheated Bourbon Run:

Did my spirit run on my wheated bourbon batch last Friday and everything went great. Firstly, the electric boiler is freaking great (5500 W 240 element through a controller) Anyone wanting to go this route, I advise bite the bullet and you will not regret it! This spirit run was an absolute joy, largely due to the electric setup. 15.5 gal electric boiler, pot still mode through a 2" column and liebig. The speed of the heat up is amazing but the best part is the control over the run. I don't know if it was the mash or control over the run, there was very little of the early heads that didn't make the final cut. I did a little larger than normal fore-shot exclusion, but I suspect that due to the added control I had very little smearing. After I reached a certain temp. in the heat up phase, I slowed way down until the first few drops of fore's, then went slow until the amount of fores I wanted to ditch was reached, then went up until my found the sweet spot, around 7-7.2 on the meter. I held back a qt. of white dog and have been sipping on it; it is the best un-aged, white whiskey I have ever tasted.

My last few batches, I have been playing around with going "old school". I have been playing around with lower barrel proof of around 110-115. I have made my cuts to that proof, then into the barrel. Here I usually lose proof, so I watch it until it reaches my usual bottle proof of 86 proof, then on glass for a few months. So, no dilution, don't dilute down to my normal 125'ish proof barrell entry nor have to dilute down to the 86 proof bottle proof. I did my last "Cherry Smoked ,Triple Wood Madeira Finished Single Malt (1st barrel = my newest barrel, 2nd barrel = a barrel with 4-5 cycles and 3rd barrel = my oldest, used up barrel I poured a bottle of good Madeira into for bout a month.) IMHO, this lower barrel entry resulted in a much richer taste and better mouth feel and the legs were amazing. I'm hoping I get the same results with this Bourbon run.
Wish me luck.

BG
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby bilgriss » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:26 am

Okay then, Good luck.
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby TDick » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:21 am

boda getta wrote:Update to my Wheated Bourbon Run:

Did my spirit run on my wheated bourbon batch last Friday and everything went great. I held back a qt. of white dog and have been sipping on it; it is the best un-aged, white whiskey I have ever tasted..
Wish me luck.

BG

I'm marketing wheat and barley wanting to give my first wheated bourbon a try.
Wanted to give this thread a bump to get an update on your results.
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby Hilltop » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:02 pm

Boda, you got some of that aging? I malted my own wheat and am running 70 pounds cracked corn, 15 pounds wheat, and 15 pounds oats and enzymes. The oats and wheat do something to it that I like.

This road has led me to some weird things, like as I figured out I like the taste of wheat in whisky I tried wheat beer and discovered I liked it too. Wheat definitely gives whisky a different flavor that some like, some don't. Try it and see.

Another one, I now know more about oyster shell, baking soda and pH than any sane man should know.

I learned a lazy distiller is prone to have problems, and most of all, I have learned no matter how much money you spend or how good of ingredients you use that most prefer neutral or clear shine. Folks hunting " moonshine" don't want no oaky smelling ,gold looking whisky, Sad but true.

We make " Wheated Bourbon" because we like finer things, but your average joe thinks it just ain't " moonshine" Lol! If the dumb Sumbitch only had a clue.
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby boda getta » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:48 pm

The 2016 batch of the wheated bourbon turned out really, really nice. I've been sipping on it for several months are really enjoying it. My bottle proof for that batch is 86 proof.
I believe I ended up with 3 proof gals for that batch.

I put the summer 2017 batch up in a 5 gal keg Aug 10 and keeping a regular check on it. In the keg Aug 10 @ 120 proof and at the last check Dec. 1 it was down to 108 proof, taste wise it is really getting close and I'm planning to put it on glass @ 90 proof. I should stop losing proof on glass and may (depending on taste) go with a 90 bottle proof this time. For most of that batch I used winter red wheat at 16% of the grain bill. I had a hard time finding it and finally ended up ordering it from Sam's at $48.00/40 lbs (it was pearled and very nice). To finish up I think I used Tractor Supply feed wheat (husk on) and milled thru a cheap Corona mill and it did ok. After I stopped distilling for the season, I happened to see a sign at a local curb market for "Feed Wheat - $8.00/50#. I stopped and bought a bag to check it out. Turned out it was also pearled and as nice as the Sam's brand. They didn't know if it's white, red or whatever. At $.16 per lb. vs $1.20 per lb. for Sam's I don't care. I've gone back and got more and plan to make one more trip. I also plan on making a wheat whiskey next summer since the wheat is so cheap.

The best news is that my sweet wife has bought me a Monster Mill 2 for Christmas! My old Corona will be retired and I'm hoping for much better consistency milling with the MM2.

Wish all a Merry Christmas a safe New Year.

BG
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby fizzix » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:35 am

Had to look up Monster Mill photos. That's a nice hunk of machinery.
Minute and half video I found:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEJxPWRNljI

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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby greggn » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:32 am

> My old Corona will be retired


You'll want to keep the Corona for milling corn. In all likelihood, putting corn through the MM will invalidate its warranty.
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby Antler24 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:56 pm

boda getta wrote:I'm thinking about making a AG Wheated bourbon w/ 70% crushed cracked corn, 20% red wheat and 10 malted barley. I also plan on using enzymes. I have a couple of questions, maybe Jimbo will jump in.

BG


Don't have much to add in regards to your question, but I recently distilled a sugar wash, ujsm style but with this mash bill. Coming from ujsm this "bourbon" sugarhead shows alot of promise. It has all the upfront corn flavour but the cloyingly sweet finish I get from ujsm is replaced with a nice biscuit/cereal/graham cracker flavour. I can't wait to get some age on it!
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Re: Wheated Bourbon

Postby zapata » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:17 pm

I have a barley crusher I love for malt. But I still use the corona for corn. Agreed, dont retire it. It does corn down to meal like nobody's business and you dont have to continuously play with the settings on your malt mill.
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