Welding my ss ferrule to copper pipe

[newbie1982]

I just got in my ferrules and am going to have someone tog weld them for me. I just wanted to know what I should make sure they do or (don't do) so it's done right and safe. I'm not doing it myself because I don't know what I'm doing so I really won't know if what there doing is right or not, and I want to make sure more then anything else that it's safe for my purpose without coming out and asking.

[ericrichards420]

If anything make sure they purge the pipe with argon, otherwise you may get some sugaring on the inside of your pipe.
Other then that they should know how to weld it.

[newbie1982]

Just because I'm curious what's the point in purging the inside of the pipe if the ferrule fits in the copper pipe an inch what does that do?

[GrassHopper]

I didn't know what I was doing either. I did the research and learned. It was simple. Just a propane torch, some Harris #8 solder, some Harris Stay Brite Flux, some emery cloth and some reading on the subject. Tig welding is expensive. But, I understand if some don't have the will or means to do it yourself. That's okay. I was just putting my own experience out there for others who may benefit.

[ericrichards420]

I'm a pipe welder and I tig weld stainless everyday. I have not welded stainless to copper although I'm aware they have similar melting points and it can be done.
I wasn't aware that the ferrule slipped inside of the pipe. For that application soldering would be a better technique. Anytime you are welding stainless for food grade it should be purged to protect the inside from sugaring. Its just a standard practice.

[corene1]

I have only TIG welded copper to stainless a few times and it is a tough connection to make. Keeping the heat constant in the stainless and copper is the hardest part. The stainless ferrule holds the heat and the copper pipe is dissipating it quickly until it gets hot then it wants to fall out very easily. It is almost a brazed connection of sorts as you will be bringing the copper puddle to the stainless and blending it in. I have used bare copper wire for filler as well as silicon bronze. I am not sure that it makes a quality joint though as the stainless and copper combine to make an alloy of sorts so I can't say if it will have a long life expectancy. Silver brazing would be my choice of connecting stainless to copper, and if it is a slip fit soldering would be even easier. Also the heat that the copper will absorb from the TIG welding process will anneal it and make it quite soft.

[newbie1982]

I've tried to solder it twice the solder just keeps puddling and won't suck into the joint

[newbie1982]

I'm going to give this another go and try to braze it I got safety silv 56

[Kegg_jam]

Scuff up the stainless real good and keep it clean.

Gotta use the right flux. Probably even re-apply as you heat it. If it burns your screwed and have to start over.

It's not an impossible task. Keep at it.

Edited:(for soldering the joint, that is)

[newbie1982]

The rod is flux coated they told me I didn't need more flux?

[newbie1982]

that was a pain

[corene1]

Safety silv 56 is a high temp silver brazing alloy that requires a compatible brazing flux. It flows at around 1200 degrees so a flux that is active at the higher temps is necessary. I use stay silv white paste , it is active from 1000 to 1600 degrees. The coated flux on the rod doesn't really flow well into the joints so coating the joint with the paste prior to assembly gets the flux into the joint so it will flow well and fill the seam.

[MichiganCornhusker]

that was a pain

When I did the type of attachment I used a muffler clamp to tighten the copper pipe onto the flange before soldering.
No leaks.

[newbie1982]

Corene1 that makes sense why it was such a pain lol guess I'll run and get paste before I do the next 3

[Lizard]

Hi

I've done a bit of this & have tried most options. IMO soft solder is hands down the way to go.

You must use plenty of acid flux ( e.g. EZIWELD 801 fluid ) to etch the SS or you won't get a strong joint. Ordinary flux is hopeless. The best solder I've tried is Consolidated Alloys high silver content but it's very expensive. Harris also makes a lead free solder which is much cheaper but harder to work with. Obviously, lead free only. A decent jewellers torch helps too & is not expensive on eBay.

The other thing that helps is having a very tight fit of the ferrule in the pipe. I stretch my own pipe ends to take the ferrules as NZ copper pipe is too small to take a ferrule & that gives me a perfect fit.

A well made joint like this is very strong. Harris tested some copper pipe to ss ferrule joints under pressure and the copper ruptured before the joints failed.

I built this still several years ago using 100% soft solder. It's done over 60 batches with no leaks, cracks or problems.

Best of luck with your project.

[rgreen2002]

I built this still several years ago using 100% soft solder. It's done over 60 batches with no leaks, cracks or problems.

DSC_1094a-1.jpg

WOW! That's a beauty! Sorry...got carried away there.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I built this still several years ago using 100% soft solder. It's done over 60 batches with no leaks, cracks or problems.

DSC_1094a-1.jpg

WOW! That's a beauty! Sorry...got carried away there.

+1!

[still_stirrin]

Dangit Lizard,

You make me (feel) sick!
ss

[Bushman]

Very useful information Lizard and backed up by beautiful workmanship! That jeweler so torch is very interesting I am going to google it as I am not sure anyone on the forum has mentioned it.

[aircarbonarc]

309 filler works wonders for welding dissimilar metals.

[Lizard]

Very useful information Lizard and backed up by beautiful workmanship! That jeweler so torch is very interesting I am going to google it as I am not sure anyone on the forum has mentioned it.

Thank you all for your kind comments. It produces wonderful Single Malt as well as looking pretty!

This is the one I use, with a 9kg bottle of ordinary Lpg. We can't even get pure propane in NZ! The torch soon pays for itself against buying small disposable gas cylinders. Very controllable & easy to use.

https://www.amazon.com/Orca-Welding-Sol ... torch+orca

The joy of soft solder is that anyone can learn to do it with little effort & it brings the ability to build a quality modular still to us all without the need for serious equipment and skills.

[FreeMountainHermit]

Oh Saaannta Claus !!!!!!

You know where I live fat boy !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_oOH-BcQI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReUPX8OcIr8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[rgreen2002]

Oh Saaannta Claus !!!!!!

You know where I live fat boy !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_oOH-BcQI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReUPX8OcIr8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That thing is pretty damn SWEET!

[corene1]

309 filler works wonders for welding dissimilar metals.

309 SS filler is good for joining dissimilar stainless steels and also stainless steel to ferrous steels. Not worth a darn joining stainless to copper, but maybe I have missed something. I have always used copper wire or silicon bronze for joining stainless to copper.

[Oldvine Zin]

For soft soldering this has been the go to torch for me https://www.amazon.com/Iwatani-Cooking- ... B00BBJC1CY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow the fuel is cheap and will join 4" copper to stainless all day

[Stainless dude]

Back to the original question. A stainless Ferrell can be tig welded to copper quite easily. No filler required, just fusion weld it, keep most of the heat on the copper. One would would think that the copper could take a ton of heat once you start, but you have to be careful not no burn it. Get half way done and let it cool, then finish. You'll be happy with the result...

[corene1]

Back to the original question. A stainless Ferrell can be tig welded to copper quite easily. No filler required, just fusion weld it, keep most of the heat on the copper. One would would think that the copper could take a ton of heat once you start, but you have to be careful not no burn it. Get half way done and let it cool, then finish. You'll be happy with the result...

You are actually making an alloy of copper and stainless in the puddle when you fusion weld it Or are you melting the copper and basically brazing it to the stainless to prevent the alloying in the puddle? How is the durability ? Is it brittle? In the few times I have tried it the copper gets really soft from the heat it takes to join the two pieces.

[Stainless dude]

Back to the original question. A stainless Ferrell can be tig welded to copper quite easily. No filler required, just fusion weld it, keep most of the heat on the copper. One would would think that the copper could take a ton of heat once you start, but you have to be careful not no burn it. Get half way done and let it cool, then finish. You'll be happy with the result...

You are actually making an alloy of copper and stainless in the puddle when you fusion weld it Or are you melting the copper and basically brazing it to the stainless to prevent the alloying in the puddle? How is the durability ? Is it brittle? In the few times I have tried it the copper gets really soft from the heat it takes to join the two pieces.

I've got quite a few parts on my rig welded this way with no problems, haven't taken a hammer to them though.
I have also done quite a few parts for a distillery in Chicago, owner is a member. I haven't heard of any problems from him either.

[Danespirit]

I'd silver solder the pieces together, as also suggested by others.
Reason is: You'll need a special welding rod to do so. It can be done without, by simply fusing the two things together, wich is fine...a lot of people have done so.
However, the moment you TIG weld those very dissimilar metals together, you'll make some kind of alloy in the welding seam that has some unfortunate properties chemically speaking.
It will also require a skilled person to weld the parts, cause that ain't so easy.
A normal silver solder with 5% AG will do, but a higher silver content will provide higher strength and good corrosion properties. Rods are more expensive, but it doesn't take much for this particular job.
Soldering is a durable method, so correctly done the piece can last a lifetime.

Edit: If you go for the soldering, be aware of it takes more heat with rising silver contend...a normal blowtorch may not be enough for a high alloyed solder.
My usually used rod for such a project contains 45% AG, you can't possibly rip that seam apart..the material will give in before the seam breaks.

[thecroweater]

When I've soldered copper to stainless I basically heated the copper letting the heat transfer to the stainless otherwise the staino gets and stays to hot. I found it was actually not very hard and I've had my share of copper to copper disasters