Rum. Translation help needed

[der wo]

I am just reading an article about rum/muck/dunder and all the funky stuff. I know all the terms, but don't understand this part at 100%:

This complex acid material is the “flavour.” The flavour enters the wash after fermentation has begun owing to the presence of acids in it which are injurious to yeast, the fermentation is prolonged and the sugar is never very completely fermented out. Fermentation lasts 9 to 10 days and the dead wash lies for several days longer.

I don't understand, when exactly the "flavour" is added to the wash. For me it sounds, they start the ferment without the flavour. Then the wash turns acidic. But by itself or also by the now added flavour?
"Prolonged" means the fermentation lasts longer. But because of the sugars in the now added flavour or because the acid of the flavour slows it down, or both?
"The sugar is never very completely fermented out" Because of the acid?

Please members, help me from to .

[rgreen2002]

I am just reading an article about rum/muck/dunder and all the funky stuff. I know all the terms, but don't understand this part at 100%:

This complex acid material is the “flavour.” The flavour enters the wash after fermentation has begun owing to the presence of acids in it which are injurious to yeast, the fermentation is prolonged and the sugar is never very completely fermented out. Fermentation lasts 9 to 10 days and the dead wash lies for several days longer.

I don't understand, when exactly the "flavour" is added to the wash. For me it sounds, they start the ferment without the flavour. Then the wash turns acidic. But by itself or also by the now added flavour?
"Prolonged" means the fermentation lasts longer. But because of the sugars in the now added flavour or because the acid of the flavour slows it down, or both?
"The sugar is never very completely fermented out" Because of the acid?

Please members, help me from to .

English is my primary language and I still can't quite understand it.. at least based on what we know here. I am very curious about this so called "flavour" though.... What does it say before the "This complex acid material is the “flavour.” part? Maybe a hint into the actual "acid material"?

I also don't know why the "dead wash" would "lie for several days longer"?

Maybe it's like Dune..."The flavour is life"...? David Bowie all jumping around with molasses.... OK I digress

[der wo]

"Flavour" is that stinky stuff from the dunder pit or muck hole. Highly acidic infected dunder, yeast, waste from the sugar production and the carcass of the mother in law of the owner of the distillery perhaps...
"Dead wash" is a finished ferment.
That it lies for several days longer means, that it probably gets infected.

It's from here:
https://www.bostonapothecary.com/select ... s-f-ashby/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
or here:
http://cocktailwonk.com/2016/03/days-of ... dient.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

With more context:

“Acid” is prepared from cane juice or skimmings in the usual way in a succession of trash cisterns. A “muck hole” outside the distillery is the receptacle for the thick matter deposited from the dunder, and the wash (dead wash bottom) to which is added cane trash and lees. The matter consists to a large extent of dead yeast and is therefore highly nitrogenous. It undergoes slow fermentation and putrefaction and its acidity is kept low by the addition of marl. When ripe it contains large amounts of butyric and higher fatty acids, both free and combined with lime. It is added to a series of acid cisterns outside the distillery where the butyric and other acids are set free. This complex acid material is the “flavour.” The flavour enters the wash after fermentation has begun owing to the presence of acids in it which are injurious to yeast, the fermentation is prolonged and the sugar is never very completely fermented out. Fermentation lasts 9 to 10 days and the dead wash lies for several days longer.

But I don't understand this fat written sentence. It's more a grammar thing I thought.

[Kareltje]

The flavour enters the wash after fermentation has begun owing to the presence of acids in it which are injurious to yeast, the fermentation is prolonged and the sugar is never very completely fermented out. Fermentation lasts 9 to 10 days and the dead wash lies for several days longer.[/i]

But I don't understand this fat written sentence. It's more a grammar thing I thought.

I think you are right. Seeing the sentence, I think there should be a period after begun and that owing should have a capital.

So:
The flavour enters the wash after fermentation has begun. Owing to the presence of acids in it which are injurious to yeast, the fermentation is prolonged and the sugar is never very completely fermented out

In this construction not only the grammar makes sense, but also the process.

I can not resist to poke other topics: this is why interpunction is important!

[der wo]

Thanks much Kareltje. This way I am able to understand it.

So probably they want to establish the normal yeast first and then add the acidic "flavour". The sudden pH drop and the battle against the new funk band slows the fermentation down.


Of course other members are still welcome here. I can't believe a Dutch is the best English teacher here.

[Kareltje]

Willkommen!

It seems to me the only explanation, both in gramar and in process.

More and more it seems to me rum making is a very dirty process. I tried to mix some strong smelling cheese in my ferments, to get the butyric and other acids into my rum. As my own smell is not very developed, I can not judge the result.

Well, our films and tv show a lot of English movies, series and persons and these are subtitled in Dutch. So we are flooded with English language, reading in Dutch the meaning. In Germany the movies and stories from English speaking countries get a German voice over. Apart from that I was teached Dutch (of course), English, German and French in high school and although I had very low grades in the foreign languages, I still gained some rudimentary knowledge of these languages.

I like that! I've heard people in Elzas-Lorraine switching from French to German in the middle of a sentence. Belgian people can answer a French question in Dutch or vice versa and both are understood.

[MichiganCornhusker]

The flavour enters the wash after fermentation has begun owing to the presence of acids in it which are injurious to yeast, the fermentation is prolonged and the sugar is never very completely fermented out.[/b] Fermentation lasts 9 to 10 days and the dead wash lies for several days longer.

I think we shouldn't be messing around with somebody else's punctuation out of hand.
The sentence works as is.

To me it says this, in another way:

Because the flavour has acids which are injurious to yeasts, it is added not at the beginning, but after the yeast has gotten a running start. Once added the acids of the flavour will begin to take a toll on the yeast and the fermentation will be prolonged and will die out before all sugars are converted. After that the wash will continue to evolve with potential purification from the funky acid flavors.

By inserting a period it shifts the reason for the timing of the addition of the flavor from effects on healthy start of fermentation to the prolonging of the the fermentation. It affects both, but in the original it is because it would interfere with the early success of the fermentation.

[Pesty]

Willkommen!

It seems to me the only explanation, both in gramar and in process.

More and more it seems to me rum making is a very dirty process.

The production of rum esters is a dirty process that uses bacteria to create all of those flavours..

The introduction of the dunder bacteria infects the wort that then interacts with the yeast to produce esters.. when esters and amyl acetates combine they create smells and flavors.

[der wo]

Thank you all!

[FullySilenced]

Willkommen!

It seems to me the only explanation, both in gramar and in process.

More and more it seems to me rum making is a very dirty process.

The production of rum esters is a dirty process that uses bacteria to create all of those flavours..

The introduction of the dunder bacteria infects the wort that then interacts with the yeast to produce esters.. when esters and amyl acetates combine they create smells and flavors.

I would think its all internal to the wash... so this one is the correct explanation of the meaning of the sentence.

Happy StillingDays

FS

[Mikey-moo]

I read it as:

This complex acid material is the “flavour.” The "flavour" enters the wash after fermentation has begun BECAUSE of the presence of acids in it which are injurious to yeast. The fermentation is prolonged and the sugar is never very completely fermented out. Fermentation lasts 9 to 10 days and the dead wash lies for several days longer.

But same result. Start the wash - let the yeast build up, then add the dunder to put the flavours in.

[der wo]

Start the wash - let the yeast build up, then add the dunder to put the flavours in.

Yes, that's the normal basic procedure. I asked, because I had the feeling that there is a bit more detailed insight. Time is the biggest factor in this game probably. When exactly adding the flavour and how long waiting after.
An hour ago I mixed fresh milled flaked corn with warm water and added a bit joghurt, this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.