Amylase question!

[thumper123]

Those BSG Amylase enzymes are alpha amylase
You have done the first part of the conversion
Now you need a gluco enzyme to finish the job

Dzul, therein lies your answer. You need to introduce glucose amylase after treatment with the alpha amalase. The alpha you are using only changes the starches to short chain sugars - a start, but not quite there for fermentable sugars. I get my enzymes from Mile High and they're excellent. Following their directions to the letter, I've never had anything but great results.

Once you get a feel for the water, you'll be fine

[thecroweater]

That is party true, alpha amylase breaks down starches and other polysaccharides into smaller long chain sugars of which a lot are not easily fermentable but generally it is beta amylase that breaks these down to glucose and maltrose. Glucoamylase and a bunch of others with further break down some more complex sugars generally during the ferment to clean up post mash residual sugars. In mashing it is generally alpha and beta amylase doing the conversion, these are the main to saccharide converters in malt.

[still_stirrin]

Want to read a little about the glucoamylase enzymes? Here's a good article (technical as it is):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768372/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

See the SebStar hotlink in my signature for one source of gluco enzymes. Once you use them, you will always want to.
ss

[shadylane]

Once you use them, you will always want to.

Even when there's malt in the grain bill
For cheap insurance against mashing failures

[thecroweater]

I will no doubt read that by and by, here's my thread on that sort of enzyme and some data from a supplier
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7287562

[dzul]

Well the enzymes came in the mail, HT Amalayse and liquid gluco. Enzymash was quick shipping and can not wait to try them out. I do not have my exact protocol written out but i will take all the information off of here and do a write up a procedure to follow. it will be all wheat with enzymes(amalayse and gluco), water to grain ratio will be 1.6q/lb for initial mash, use acid blend to balance pH. ill keep everyone posted and post it with results in the My First even though it is my second haha.

thank to everyone so far, very excited haha

[Mgnt]

I plan to use the same enzyme what did did you add it into your mash

[still_stirrin]

I do not have my exact protocol written....it will be all wheat with enzymes(amalayse and gluco), water to grain ratio will be 1.6q/lb for initial mash, use acid blend to balance pH...though it is my second haha...haha

Is this (supposed to be) a joke?

Tip when mashing wheat, especially 100% wheat: make sure you use a "protein rest". Wheat is very high in proteins, which can be reduced to carbs (and fermentable sugars) if you use the correct mash sequence. If you've never mashed wheat before, there is much info on this (and how to do it) on any number of homebrew (beer) forums. But, basically a protein rest is a temperature step at 122-125*F for 20-25 minutes.

And if trying to lower the mash pH, you can also do an acid rest step before the protein rest. The acid rest is around 90-95*F for 15 minutes, or so. And if you use at least some malted wheat, these enzymes will already be available in your mash as you step (up) through the temperature profile.

Finally, you don't need to gelatinize wheat like you do corn, so you won't need the HTL enzymes with a wheat mash. The gluco amalyse is still useful for the starch to sugar conversion (at 140-148*F) however.

Good luck with the 100% wheat mash. It'll be a little tricky for you, especially since its a first. At least you haven't fantasized about making a 100% rye yet. Rye is a "tuff nut to crack".
ss

[dzul]

I do not have my exact protocol written....it will be all wheat with enzymes(amalayse and gluco), water to grain ratio will be 1.6q/lb for initial mash, use acid blend to balance pH...though it is my second haha...haha

Is this (supposed to be) a joke?

_Is what a joke, my ignorance? I am trying to learn, that is why i am here.

Tip when mashing wheat, especially 100% wheat: make sure you use a "protein rest". Wheat is very high in proteins, which can be reduced to carbs (and fermentable sugars) if you use the correct mash sequence. If you've never mashed wheat before, there is much info on this (and how to do it) on any number of homebrew (beer) forums. But, basically a protein rest is a temperature step at 122-125*F for 20-25 minutes.

_I am using a variety of soft white wheat that is very low in protein, below 9%, which is lower than a lot of barley varieties. With my equipment it is difficult to do a multi step mash. I could mash at 122-125F, drain off liquid, heat in kettle to normal mashing temps and add back into mash tun. Would this still be advantages?

And if trying to lower the mash pH, you can also do an acid rest step before the protein rest. The acid rest is around 90-95*F for 15 minutes, or so. And if you use at least some malted wheat, these enzymes will already be available in your mash as you step (up) through the temperature profile.

_Same as above, would make it a three step mash. Still recommend an acid rest? Regular wheat is very cheap for me which fully offset the cost of the enzymes comparative to buying malts.

Finally, you don't need to gelatinize wheat like you do corn, so you won't need the HTL enzymes with a wheat mash. The gluco amalyse is still useful for the starch to sugar conversion (at 140-148*F) however.

_I understand wheat does not need high temps to gelatinize like corn, i used your link to wikipedia to double check so thank you! I got the HTL because of the large temp us range. So it will work at lower temps along with the gluco..hopefully if i do everything else correct

Good luck with the 100% wheat mash. It'll be a little tricky for you, especially since its a first. At least you haven't fantasized about making a 100% rye yet. Rye is a "tuff nut to crack".
ss

_thank you!! it is not my first mash, it is my first without any malt so it is a lot more difficult comparative to doing one step mash with barley haha. but again thank you for the advice, it is much appreciated. No 100% Rye...yet haha joking

[waffletalk]

I might suggest that you track down a bit of malted wheat. For a few more cents a pound over your unmalted wheat you can get all the enzymes you need and more sugar. Say 70% unmalted 30% malted, or the like, and you can cut the enzymes out completely. Or less malted wheat, use the alpha enzyme, and then when you get your temp to about 145, add a handful of malted wheat in and let the enzymes finish the conversion. The last option is adding that gluco enzyme , though if I'm not mistaken you want to add it to the fermenter. It can denature at temps over 115. It will also generate a large amount of glucose, which can, depending on your yeast strain either create more esters, or more problems.

~J~