Apple pulp fermentation

[bartus-h]

I am going to get some apples this evening (someone has some left over). I am planning on doing a pulp fermentation using bakers yeast (actually the left over yeast/ryebread mixture from my rye-bread whiskey). I have done this three times before. First time it was a small batch (apple and pear), using natural yeasts. This tasted very nice! Second time I had left the fermentation for waaaay too long (it waited on my own still to be built). The result I threw away, it tasted like denaturated spirits (spiritus in dutch). The third time I had a pretty good result (using mostly apples), but it has a much sharper taste than I remember from the first time.

Am I correct in assuming that apples do have a sharper taste than for instance pears? Or is something else going on?

[der wo]

Apple spirits taste a bit dryer sharper than for example pear spirits. Especially without aging. But it depends also on cuts of course.
And if you use wild yeast or second generation yeast and such things, of course there may something else going on.

[MDH]

When using wild yeast, it is crucial to mantain an oxygen free fermentation environment, and also to distill as soon as fermentation winds down. Leaving your ferment for a long time, regardless of which type or source of yeast you use, is also an issue, since we do not use sulfites in distilling.

[bartus-h]

Thanks for your replies! The dryer and sharper seems what I have now, so I think in essence I am doing nothing wrong now (my cuts are fine on my other driks). Next time I will try to get some pears again.

As for the fermenting, I always use a (water)locked container, so no oxygen. With leaving it long, you are worried about infections or something else?

And I did use sulfites on one of my fruit mashes... I rinsed the fruit with it, then rinsed with water. So only a little would have remained. But what would the problem be with using sulfites?

Sent from my m8 using Tapatalk

[MDH]

Don't use any sulfites. This may be causing off-flavors in new spirit. SO2 reacts with compounds in the spirit.

The reason you don't want to store mashes in distilling (though there are exceptions) is that more often than not, we do not pasteurize or use preservatives. There are thousands of microbes that continue to act and change the flavor and charactaristics of a ferment after the yeast cease all activity, such as brettanomyces, and numerous strains of bacteria.

--As one example, if you ferment a Muscat wine and don't add sulfites, then lactobacillus bacteria which lived on the grape's skin at harvest will actually metabolize some of the terpenes responsible for the grape's delicious grapefruity-rose aroma, and diminish its overall character.

So, don't store mashes unless you explicitly know what you're doing it for. The moment it's finished fermenting, distill it.

[Bushman]

If you are just using the pulp called pomace from the apples then it will be a bit more bitter than mashing the whole apple. You might also want to look up the term Punching the Cap during fermentation.

[bartus-h]

Allright. So I am using the whole apple, and I occasionally make sure there is no dry stuff floating on top (I swirl the fermentation vessel).

My first attempt did have some moldiness when finally run. If this happens, I can understand the off flavers I had experienced.I can detect if the mash actually tastes off before distilling, so I don't think it won't be noticed if the mash is infected.

The yeast also creates its own environment, which helps preserve the mash (high acidity and CO2), so I'm not too scared of the mash getting infected in a closed container. And keep in mind the apples or by no means sterile when they go in...

So at least my question is answered: Apples do have a sharper taste than grains or pears, and my first wash was infected. I have new apples on the go now, I will try to soften the taste by aging

I will research the sulfites a bit more though, It is still not clear to me what effect they have on the final taste...

[der wo]

I have new apples on the go now, I will try to soften the taste by aging

When you look at commercial apple brandies, they are much more often aged on oak than pear brandies.

[bartus-h]

Ah! The plot thickens

[MDH]

The yeast also creates its own environment, which helps preserve the mash (high acidity and CO2), so I'm not too scared of the mash getting infected in a closed container. And keep in mind the apples or by no means sterile when they go in...

It doesn't matter. Brettanomyces, multiple strains of lactibacillus, clostridium, etc are all anaerobic. As I explained, they continue to act on the mash after primary fermentation has finished, and winemakers work to prevent their action on wine because unless intended (E.g. chardonnay or belgian lambics), their effect is undesirable.

[Wino2Distill]

A friend of mine brought me five 50 litre damejanes of three year old cider. No vinegar in any of them, but one was heavily Bretted. I ran it all threw my through my reflux still in several batches. Only a portion of it came out nice, but I redistilled the stinkier stuff and it ended up smelling like apples after a few weeks of rest. Turns out Brett flavour comes out in the very last tails. In my experience apple spirit is aways somewhat dry/sharp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk