Why not glass?

[hotmaildotcom1]

I'm simply just wondering as the title implies why are there not more all glass setups out there? I can think of two reasons right off the bat but I'm wondering if there are more things to take into consideration.

One, I know the lack of copper is going to reduce the amount of sulfur compounds removed from the end product and that those degrade quality quite a bit. Two, I would imagine volume would be quite an issue as easily obtainable glassware for a boiler is probably limited to about 2L.

All of that being said it still seems to me like use of some copper column packing and considerable patience could lead to a pretty cheap and reasonably exciting looking still set up. Are there other reasons that anyone could think of that would make this impractical?

[Pikey]

I think the answer is simpler than that.

Glass breaks. If it is full of boiling explosive gas and sitting on a flame or other heat source when it does so - You are likely to be in hospital (at best)

So why go there ? why not just use copper or stainless ?

[Kareltje]

In most laboratories glass tools are used, also to distill very dangerous fluids. And for example I have never heard of a thermometer that broke because of differences in temperature. Or a sight glass in a stove or oven.

When I made wine I used to sterilise the fermenting bottles and the wine bottles by putting a bit of cold water in them, put them on a wooden plank and slowly filling them with boiling water. Bit by bit and after each bit vigorously shaking. Until they were so hot I could not handle them any more. Never lost one!

So a) it partly depends on the kind of glass, as there are very strong and heatresistent kinds of glass,
and b) it partly depends on how you handle the glass.

And of course c) there are some issues in construction with glass. Few people know how to weld it or drill holes in it. So you have to buy your equipment.

[Pikey]

Well K - you do come up with some great ideas and I suppose if you want to do it - you've been around long enough to make your own mind up

There's no way I'd do a 50 litre boiler in glass - but hey why not ?

[Kareltje]

Well K - you do come up with some great ideas and I suppose if you want to do it - you've been around long enough to make your own mind up

There's no way I'd do a 50 litre boiler in glass - but hey why not ?

I can not imagine a glass 50 litre boiler and I think it is way too much, indeed, Although internal heating by electric elements might work.

But sometime ago I saw a glass still with a boiler of 2 litre, that I liked. The price was a bit high, but I liked it. From a laboratory, so proven quality. Nice for experiments or small stills.

A still builder showed a copper still with a (small) glass thumper. When I questioned the safety he told me, out of experience, that it would stay in one piece, provided it would heat up evenly. And from my own experience I believe him.

[cuginosgrizzo]

I don't know about you, but I am too clumsly to trust myself around glassware. I have broken my share of glasses, jars, hydrometers. No thank you, I'll stick to copper and stainless.

[OtisT]

I've seen lab distillation equipment too, but not on the scale of even my hobby still. Would be worried about breakage, fire, an all the stuff mentioned previously. Just my opinion.

The type of glass you would want to use is Borosilicate glass. That is what lab glass is made of. It does not expand/contract so much with temp changes, making it safer for our purposes.

There are some beautiful glass stills and glass still components. Someone recently posted a picture of an all glass still in use at a distillery in Hawaii that is cool looking. I'm sure you could find it here with an HD Google Search.

[cranky]

Glass is too subjective a material to be considered a safe material to use. Even Borosilicate (COE33) glass can fail under the kind of stresses we put our stills through. Cheap Chinese COE33 that hasn't been properly stress relieved has been known to break sitting undisturbed on a shelf for no reason. Even the stuff that has been properly annealed can over stress when subjected to reflux because often hot parts are rapidly quenched as a result of exposure to the colder liquid from a reflux condenser. Not to mention problems with sealing it all up. A person who doesn't know anything about how glass works or even what glass really is is very likely to make a mistake that could be very catastrophic for him and even this hobby as a whole. This is why not glass.

[bitter]

+1 to cranky and others.. Remember most lab equipment is used in a lab were there are specialized safety equipment that your house does not have like halon or other systems(to put out fires fast.

B

[cob]

+1 to cranky and others.. Remember most lab equipment is used in a lab were there are specialized safety equipment that your house does not have like halon or other systems(to put out fires fast.

B

+1 on the fire suppression, labs also have explosion proof enclosures,

fire resistant lab wear, gloves, safety glasses, etc.

the primary purposes of HD is safety in home distilling, and legalization of home distilling.

lab glass is relatively safe in a lab setting. but don't bring it up here unless

you personally use lab glass in a laboratory setting.

[Kareltje]

Well, glass can be used at least as a part of a still.
See for example some builds in http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=55313

[bluefish_dist]

You could not pay me enough to stand next to a glass still full of 25 gallons of boiling liquid. If there was any problem it would be very unhealthy. with a lab still it is simply a small amount of liquid which could be contained.
There is a distillery that uses glass tops, but I think on those stills there is still a metal container to hold the boiling liquid. Much less risk of something going wrong. Good ventilation could remove the potential fire/explosion risk.

[thecroweater]

Why not glass boiler? No thanks I choose life.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p6819951

[cob]

Well, glass can be used at least as a part of a still.
See for example some builds in http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=55313

thumbing your nose at safety appears to have become a habit.

[Truckinbutch]

Why hasn't this thread been locked ?

[rubber duck]

Isn't the glass they use in labs for distilling pyrex? Also in proper labs I would think most of the folks working there are cemistry graduates.

[corene1]

So many good points have already been made concerning the safety of glass in a hobby still. It is a dangerous situation that you would be putting yourself in. Those that are trained to use it in lab conditions are probably safe ,but not the hobbyist that is working in their garage or shed. Safety is always first on HD.

Now a second thought. People are saying a small 1 to 2 liter glass still is beneficial for doing small experimental distillations and yet the first advice we give newbies that want to build very small stills is that making proper cuts will be very difficult. What would be the hearts cut on a 1.5 liter charge in a 2 liter boiler and would it be an accurate test to show possible flavors and quality of results of a new grain bill? Something to think about . So I think I will stick to my copper and stainless stills for safety ,and when experimenting I will stick to 10 gallon tests runs for new recipes.

[still_stirrin]

Why hasn't this thread been locked ?

Butch,

Unfortunately the subject comes up time and again as new members join us. They often don't do enough reading to have encountered the reason "why" glass is not recommended, or even acceptable, for use in our hobby. So, we must reiterate time and time again not to use glass distilling equipment, even in light of scholastic practice in laboratory service.

Fact is, hobbiests will screw it up (Murphyism???) every time.

And Corene's point is well taken too....that scale of the still matters too when learning the processes of distillation and making proper spirit cuts. Safety is can very easily be compromised by the scale of the equipment.

To the OP, just say, "no" to glass. And if you have to ask...then you're not prepared to ask to begin with.
ss

[The Baker]

The tiny still can be okay for gin; no cuts required.

Geoff

[DeepSouth]

The tiny still can be okay for gin; no cuts required.

Geoff

I've been wanting to buy a small glass lab still. I'd use it for distilling essential oils and essences for flavorings to experiment with. For making gin a little lab still is just about perfect. You could distill only one or two bottles at a time. I'd only buy one from a labware supply store though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[cranky]

As a flagrant violator of the no glass rule I feel compelled to say a bit more.
I personally don't feel glass cannot be run safely, after all I have many successful runs, as do many members who run visistills. I personally wouldn't want to make blind reflux runs like a lot of you guys. However, there are a lot of different considerations when running with glass that a novice or person unfamiliar with glass might not know are necessary which is why it can't be recommended as a safe material.

[corene1]

Just another thought. How many here have a nick, dent, or deep scratch on their still. How would a glass still hold up to that? Another thought. If a person needs a tiny still why not make one out of copper or stainless. I don't know the price of a lab grade still but I bet they are pretty expensive. Heck that might be a fun project . A 3 gallon still with a 1 inch plated column. or even a packed column with a couple of sight glasses.

[cranky]

Just another thought. How many here have a nick, dent, or deep scratch on their still. How would a glass still hold up to that?

Something like this

That's actually a product condenser that had a stress riser and I was steaming when I made a mistake and turned the cooling water on. I knew better than to do that but had a momentary laps of reason. I probably shouldn't say this but because it is caged and essentially clamped together it never leaked but when I took it apart the glass actually fell in half. As Corene points out a small stress riser in glass can be catastrophic.

[bluefish_dist]

A glass lab still is between $150 and $300 depending on who you get it from or how it is configured. I need one to do proofing on liqueurs.

[The Baker]

The tiny still can be okay for gin; no cuts required.

Geoff

I've been wanting to buy a small glass lab still. I'd use it for distilling essential oils and essences for flavorings to experiment with. For making gin a little lab still is just about perfect. You could distill only one or two bottles at a time. I'd only buy one from a labware supply store though.

Made my own little pot still from a 6 litre stainless pot, a friend put it together for me. I am using it to distil surplus and low quality wine at the moment, and will use it to tidy up a lot of mystery distillate.
A lot of that is from apple and I might make a tiny thumper (technically, an added boiler and use the existing still as the thumper, so as to keep the existing condenser set-up...) and try a spirit run with apples and/ or apple juice in the thumper.
And I have most of the 'parts' needed to make at least one bigger pot still, won't bother with a reflux still for some time.
Maybe never because my brother-in-law lives in town and might get a flute...

Geoff

[andybear]

I made this one with lantern glasses. Its borosilicate glass so heat resistant.it is 4 inches in diameter. And I love it. The plates and caps are copper and all held together with external thread bar.

[hotmaildotcom1]

Thank you for all of the replies. I am actually very surprised at the amount of feedback so really thanks!

I was just curious if there was anything that was screamingly obvious that I was missing (and I was). It seems breakage should be an obvious one but I simply didn't think about it. There seems to be lots of citations here of glass breakage under temperature stress as well though. I've done considerable chemical synthesis (with and without condensers) at much higher temps than those achieved than what I would imagine would ever get pumped through a still (200C or more) with some pretty intense temp shift as well as negative pressures; and never experienced this, but as was stated it really only takes one break once when not in a hood as I am in those settings. I don't doubt the issue though is a real one, as there are even pictures in this post alone.

I've read a great deal about mason jars going out when used as thumpers and such. I would imagine that most people would not take heat to any glassware that isn't designed to do so, but I guess my question seemed clueless enough to merit concern in that regard as well as the many other issues stated.

At any normal scale it certainly wouldn't be useful I also agree, and it definitely considerably less safe. This was much more of an exploratory post done after reading various threads about the topic and wanting to take my own stab at it. I was asking mostly because of my interest in determining cut points via instrumentation rather than simply considerable experience. For that purpose the tiny window for making cuts might actually be interesting. It however is still a very good point as still_stirrin any many others had pointed out, that would have to exist in any still that would be as small as any glassware still would have to be.

[pounsfos]

Odin has a glass Column
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 1&start=30

I think glass is something you can start playing with after you have a very good knowledge of Stillin' (a.k.a not for novices, advanced users only)

Odin is a Pillar in this Hobby and his Istill business is becoming a big Success, I joined this site a year after he did, and have watched him do some crazy experiments and move stillin" "technology" to a whole new level, he hasn't logged on since april, hope he's doin well.

note in the video, his glass column has protection on all 4 sides and is located in a large location, where you don't have to worry about it falling over. nor should you be worried about any still falling over, but accidents do happen.

just my 2c

[der wo]

Odin is a Pillar in this Hobby and his Istill business is becoming a big Success, I joined this site a year after he did, and have watched him do some crazy experiments and move stillin" "technology" to a whole new level, he hasn't logged on since april, hope he's doin well.

Perhaps this thread is the reason for his abstinence:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p7469054

[Kareltje]

Odin is a Pillar in this Hobby and his Istill business is becoming a big Success, I joined this site a year after he did, and have watched him do some crazy experiments and move stillin" "technology" to a whole new level, he hasn't logged on since april, hope he's doin well.

Perhaps this thread is the reason for his abstinence:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p7469054

That really is bad news. Not only his departure, but even more the reasons.
Although I would not think much of hate-mail and false accusations, they are a pollution of normal conversation. As if you have to wade through mud before reaching solid ground.