Boil after Mash?

[avoletta]

Hi All,
I have been a home brewer at the last 5 years. But I have no experience in distilling, yet. Just studying.
In the standard process of getting beer, after making the mash, the wort is boiled for one 1 hour.
Not only to obtain the bitterness from the hop but also to coagulate some substances that came from grains husks (trub).
This trub must be removed from the wort after precipitate it. This can prevent many off-flavor in the beer.
Why this process is not indicated in beer for distillation? or it does?
TKS.

[Dnderhead]

most distillers ,tend to ferment with lots of yeast and fast,so no time for infections to take over.
then distill right away.

[Uncle Jemima]

Also, if you're fermenting on the grain, your enzymes aren't denatured from the boiling and are therefore able to continue munching on the grains converting more starches to sugars throughout the ferment. At least that's my understanding of it.

[bellybuster]

I'm a brewer as well and it just kills me to even hear of not boiling wort. So many problems could be gone by boiling. As far as I'm concerned, if you have good conversion, enzymes are not an issue. If you plan on removing the wort from the grain for fermentation I see no reason what so ever not to boil the wort if it makes you more comfortable. If you are fermenting on the grain different story.
The 1 hour boil has 2 main purposes though. To pasteurize and to reduce, upping the ABV

[Beerbrewer]

I'm a brewer as well and it just kills me to even hear of not boiling wort. So many problems could be gone by boiling. As far as I'm concerned, if you have good conversion, enzymes are not an issue. If you plan on removing the wort from the grain for fermentation I see no reason what so ever not to boil the wort if it makes you more comfortable. If you are fermenting on the grain different story.
The 1 hour boil has 2 main purposes though. To pasteurize and to reduce, upping the ABV

This is the one thing that has also been puzzling me, i would always boil any wort since I don't like leaving things to chance, although couldn't a 15min boil do the same job as long as you took into account the end volume?

[mrbobian]

Remember however, some purists say that the bacterial spores found on the grain (such as lactobacillus) play an important part in alcohol development. If you want to make vodka, I'm sure boiling is a good idea, but if you want an interesting whiskey, keep those little free friends of mother nature and see what fun develops as far as esters, acids, etc...

[bellybuster]

Would love to see a side by side on that. Once I get over to get more grain I'll do a comparison

[brewit2it]

I'm a brewer as well and it just kills me to even hear of not boiling wort. So many problems could be gone by boiling. As far as I'm concerned, if you have good conversion, enzymes are not an issue. If you plan on removing the wort from the grain for fermentation I see no reason what so ever not to boil the wort if it makes you more comfortable. If you are fermenting on the grain different story.
The 1 hour boil has 2 main purposes though. To pasteurize and to reduce, upping the ABV

This is the one thing that has also been puzzling me, i would always boil any wort since I don't like leaving things to chance, although couldn't a 15min boil do the same job as long as you took into account the end volume?

As another brewer here I also boiled my wort after conversion. I've never done more than a 20min boil though. On my last couple washes I've just brought the wort up to about 90C(194F) for about 20min and called it good.
Beer boiling has 7 main purposes:
1) Extracts, isomerizes and dissolves the hop α-acids
2) Stops enzymatic activity
3) Kills bacteria, fungi, and wild yeast
4) Coagulates undesired proteins and polyphenols in the hot break
5) Evaporates undesirable harsh hop oils, sulfur compounds, ketones, and esters.
6) Promotes the formation of melanoidins and caramelizes some of the wort sugars
7) Evaporates water vapor, condensing the wort(really more of a consequence than a purpose)

The only reason brewers boil for an hour because that's about how long it takes to fully isomerize α-acids. Out of these primary 7 reasons you can see that none of them are of concern to distilling wash. The reduction that happens also contributes to #6, however this isn't so good for a wash because that evap and caramelization will raise the SG, and also produce unfermentable sugars that raise your FG along with it. The proteins and polyphenols are heavy and/or have high boiling temps and don't make it over with significance into the distillate.

Remember however, some purists say that the bacterial spores found on the grain (such as lactobacillus) play an important part in alcohol development. If you want to make vodka, I'm sure boiling is a good idea, but if you want an interesting whiskey, keep those little free friends of mother nature and see what fun develops as far as esters, acids, etc...

After talking to a couple distilleries with laboratories it turns out that when using proper pitch rates there is hardly any noticeable contribution from other micros besides the yeast. The yeast take over so quickly that other micros like lacto just don't have time to grow. There are some things in a wash that will continue to work after the yeast have done their thing, but as mentioned before that is one of the reasons a wash is distilled after a relatively short time compared to some beer.

[Brian Boru]

Realizing this forum is several years old, boiling wort will kill off lacto. I've read different opinion on whether they affect final flavor. But it doesn't really matter. You could add lacto culture or even yogurt culture early in fermentation to get some of the flavors you want. I like boiling because it does clean up anything bad and allows me to store the wort for a week or two if needed. Sometimes I don't have time to run the still the immediate following weekend. Boiled wort, kept in a sanitized carboy at 8% alcohol after fermentation will keep for months just fine.

[Pikey]

Realizing this forum is several years old, boiling wort will kill off lacto. I've read different opinion on whether they affect final flavor. But it doesn't really matter. You could add lacto culture or even yogurt culture early in fermentation to get some of the flavors you want. I like boiling because it does clean up anything bad and allows me to store the wort for a week or two if needed. Sometimes I don't have time to run the still the immediate following weekend. Boiled wort, kept in a sanitized carboy at 8% alcohol after fermentation will keep for months just fine.

I don't dispute what you say Brian, but thought I could mention - I just ran this weekend a malt extract scotch(ish) which definitely had an infection (believed lacto) early in the ferment. The ferment was 220 litres and was run in 25 litre batches. This was the very last batch - run as a 1.5 and came out as smooth and reliable as all it's predecessors. This has never been above 80 degrees F and was started in a simple screw top Olive barrel - October 2016 !

However my alcohol level was probably around 11 %.

You can keep a wine for quite a long time !

[Single Malt Yinzer]

I like boiling because it does clean up anything bad and allows me to store the wort for a week or two if needed.

There's a couple reasons why distillers don't boil their wort:
- Cost - as most commercial distillers run their wort in less than 5-6 days it's an added cost without significant benefit. Since most infections aren't seen as negative pasteurizing isn't worth cost.
- If the amylase enzyme isn't denatured it will continue to break down some unfermentable sugars in fermentable ones. This adds alcohol without extra cost.
- Most infections are seen as beneficial to the flavor.

Please don't take this as "NEVER BOIL YOUR WORT!!!!" In your case I can understand why you're doing it. Personally I would let it ferment for the 1-2 weeks and let the flavors develop. Time makes the magic happen.

The 1 hour boil has 2 main purposes though. To pasteurize and to reduce, upping the ABV

The ABV part is misleading. Since beer is a final product yes, it does that. For us the beer is distilled, the interim beer ABV isn't as meaningful. Think of it like this: If I put a pound of sugar into a gallon of water (SG 1.046) I will get ~7% ABV. If I put 1 pound of sugar into 10 gallons of water (SG 1.005) I will get ~0.7% ABV. But, they both yield the same absolute amount of alcohol (~9oz). So when you're at the end of the mash your wort has X amount of fermentable sugars in it. Reducing the volume doesn't change that absolute amount. You will still get the same amount of alcohol from the still regardless of the SG.