When to add aged dunder?

vqstatesman · Post by **vqstatesman** » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:00 am

Hi All,

I have some dunder from a previous rum batch which I have been againg for several months. Its has developed quite a large cap of mouldy goodness. I plan on adding this to my next batch of rum.

I have read quite a lot of info on when and how much and to add. The problem is the quantity and when to add seems to be different between threads and sites. Along with differing times to add there seems to be pros and cons. However I'm still unsure what is best.

So my question is for the rum makers who have experience with using AGED dunder. When and how much to you add to your ferment? And if you feel so included a reason why would help to.

Thanks in advance.

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:07 pm

Two different schools of thought...First is to add your dunder directly to the low wines and distill, quantity is between a pint and a quart to 5 gal...but I'd go easy until you know what flavors you can expect to extract. Second is to add the live culture directly to the ferment when the abv reaches 4%. The bacteria and the yeast work together to complete the fermentation and not against each other as was previously assumed. This has to be a really good shot of active dunder, check with der wo and shine- on's posts as I think they have both done this...http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=66527 I'm thinking about two quarts of active dunder in a 5 gal ferment

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:18 pm

and this one...http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 39&t=66998

and another...http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=67010

vqstatesman · Post by **vqstatesman** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:49 am

Thanks Kiwi. I was thinking of starting by adding 5-10% volume of aged dunder to my wash once the fermentation has completed, maybe a day or two before distilling.

Not sure I have the balls to add aged dunder into the wash mid ferment. My ferments are runs are more than 100L per run, thats a lot to risk. Maybe I'll give it ago one day when I'm bored

NZChris · Post by **NZChris** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:36 am

There are a lot of ways to skin this cat, many of them new inventions and contradictory. They include boiling to sterilize before adding early or late in the ferment, plus additions of cane vinegar and/or sulphuric acid to the 'dunder' (which has become a misused and evolving word). Start somewhere relatively safe so that you don't invest a lot of time, money and effort into making undrinkable crap when you have little in your drinks cabinet, then adjust your protocols as you learn.

Later, you can blend your various successes and failures to make rums you really like.

The Baker · Post by **The Baker** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:29 am

vqstatesman wrote:Thanks Kiwi. I was thinking of starting by adding 5-10% volume of aged dunder to my wash once the fermentation has completed, maybe a day or two before distilling.

Not sure I have the balls to add aged dunder into the wash mid ferment. My ferments are runs are more than 100L per run, thats a lot to risk. Maybe I'll give it ago one day when I'm bored

Well if you look at it the other way, you would have plenty from which to take ten or twenty litres, and put a bit of the dunder in that and run it separately....

Geoff

Post by **raketemensch** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:45 am

vqstatesman wrote:Thanks Kiwi. I was thinking of starting by adding 5-10% volume of aged dunder to my wash once the fermentation has completed, maybe a day or two before distilling.

Not sure I have the balls to add aged dunder into the wash mid ferment. My ferments are runs are more than 100L per run, thats a lot to risk. Maybe I'll give it ago one day when I'm bored

You could alway siphon off a boilerfull and experiment.

Post by **OtisT** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:13 am

vqstatesman wrote:Not sure I have the balls to add aged dunder into the wash mid ferment. My ferments are runs are more than 100L per run, thats a lot to risk. Maybe I'll give it ago one day when I'm bored

I have not added aged dunder mid-ferment, but I have had success adding it from the start of the ferment. I use about 1+ gallon of aged dunder/backset with fresh to total 6 gallons per bucket. If you add any time before the ferment is finished, Watch the PH. I need to add potassium carbonate to get my wash up to proper PH after adding the dunder. I also use shells in my fermenter to help maintain ph.

I recently have been adding a quart of aged dunder with a quart of feints from my previous batch, and let that set a week or two before adding to your low wines and doing a spirit run. According to the threads I'm following (and I paraphrase) the acids and other things in the dunder react with the "higher alcohols" to produce a range of esters. I figured my feints, which include the heads, are full of higher alcohols and should produce some new flavors/smells to my drop. I'm loving what comes off the still these days.

. Good luck to you. Otis

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:41 pm

OtisT wrote:I have not added aged dunder mid-ferment, but I have had success adding it from the start of the ferment. I use about 1+ gallon of aged dunder/backset with fresh to total 6 gallons per bucket. If you add any time before the ferment is finished, Watch the PH. I need to add potassium carbonate to get my wash up to proper PH after adding the dunder. I also use shells in my fermenter to help maintain ph.

I recently have been adding a quart of aged dunder with a quart of feints from my previous batch, and let that set a week or two before adding to your low wines and doing a spirit run. According to the threads I'm following (and I paraphrase) the acids and other things in the dunder react with the "higher alcohols" to produce a range of esters. I figured my feints, which include the heads, are full of higher alcohols and should produce some new flavors/smells to my drop. I'm loving what comes off the still these days. . Good luck to you. Otis

This is a very encouraging post Otis... straight forward good advice...good on ya!

Shine0n · Post by **Shine0n** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:18 am

The route I went was dunder to low wines at 20-25% total volume as not to mess up a whole rum ferment.
When I did dunder in the ferment I didn't see any noticeable difference in the final product, after using in the low wines there was a very distinct flavor that wasn't there on my normal rum.
Has done well in blending for my long term aging, also with the right ratios, awesome white on the rocks or if you prefer rum and coke it's great too.

Don't be afraid of the funk, no need to boil before you run in the spirit run either.
I have 20+ gallons aging now and 4- 5 gal buckets of the specific infected dunders now aging as well.

Good luck,
Shine0n

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:48 pm

Shine0n wrote:Has done well in blending for my long term aging, also with the right ratios, awesome white on the rocks or if you prefer rum and coke it's great too.Shine0n

Now this is what I'm taking about, bit by bit we'll be able to get this together.

Post by **raketemensch** » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:47 pm

My feints jars sit around for ages, and I’ve got a bit of infected backset here, I guess it’s time for a little experiment.

Post by **OtisT** » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:47 am

raketemensch wrote:My feints jars sit around for ages, and I’ve got a bit of infected backset here, I guess it’s time for a little experiment.

Good luck with the experiment. I think you will like the results.

I was in the same situation as you at the beginning of the summer. I have a 6 gal car boy for feints that I was saving up for a rum run once it was full. I fully expected that run to take place this summer, but it's been sitting at half full for over three months, since I began using feints/backset in both my rum and bourbon batches. I'm liking what the feints/backset are doing for my drops way more than the joy I would get from one more large rum run.

Shine0n · Post by **Shine0n** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:13 am

I don't know... I get the goose bumps when I think about a rum ferment with some extra funkyness at the ready. lol

Post by **OtisT** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:31 am

Shine0n wrote:I don't know... I get the goose bumps when I think about a rum ferment with some extra funkyness at the ready. lol

Well, it is still half full. And half a funk is better than no funk at all.

zapata · Post by **zapata** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:38 am

I like calling it funk, but maybe if we went with the Carribean "hogo" it wouldn't sound as scary? Hogo is an adoption and descendant of French for "high taste", which elicits a different kind of goose bumps, doesn't it?

kiwi Bruce · Post by **kiwi Bruce** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:03 pm

My Caribbean Hogo...I like that, way better that Funk jug, Muck pot or Dunder Hole! Hogo it is!

Shine0n · Post by **Shine0n** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:01 pm

Make this a sticky. lol
My rum is high taste and, buttery, sweet, fruity, with lots of tastes on the tongue long after you swallow.

HOGO
FUNK
ok ok, I use funk to HOGO rum???
Shit man now I'm thinking too hard for a Monday. lol

Post by **raketemensch** » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:18 pm

Don’t be such a dunder hole.

Home Distiller

When to add aged dunder?

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