First post from Toronto

[Johnsmih1010]

Hello
So this is my first post . I live in Toronto (Canada) . I work with several wineries up here doing r&d . The laws have recently changed for the better that allows individuals to sell their own products . You can either buy azeotroic 96% from the lcbo( liquor control board ) or distill it yourself with licensing that is fairly easy to get . I Alberta you can distill In your own bar a
D sell it . I am making apparatuses for a couple ( un mentioned wineries ) I used to manufacture activated carbon filters for the hydroponic industry but with legalization that bus died as people generally are lazy and just go to one of about a 1000 dispeneries so we changed format and went to distilling equipment. I won't mention any companies or brand names . I have been doing research and experimentation since 2010 . Up here it's still not a we'll known hobby /bus but is gaining popularity . One fun thing I perfected is how to regenerate your own activated carbon . I am interested in getting some verification on flow characteristics of different machines as I read a lot of stuff but not every thing makes sense . Whether people embellish or are just wrong I am here to find out .

[Oldvine Zin]

My humble opinion is to perfect your fermentation ans distilling skills to the point that you don't need to carbon filter. That's what this hobby is all about.
Other than that read, learn, and welcome.

OVZ

[Johnsmih1010]

Even if you distill to azeotropic levels there is still a large congeener content if your goal is nutral spirit . If you are distilling FOR flavour you are absolutely right , but that is why whiskey is stored in charred barrels as it is a low grade form of activated carbon to slowly adsorb( adhere to surfac area through vanderwall forces as opposed to absorb, carbon is a micro pourous has adsobant material as it is rated in acres per pound of inner sufaface area ) the impurities

[Johnsmih1010]

Even if you distill to azeotropic levels there is still a large congeener content if your goal is nutral spirit . If you are distilling FOR flavour you are absolutely right , but that is why whiskey is stored in charred barrels as it is a low grade form of activated carbon to slowly adsorb( adhere to surfac area through vanderwall forces as opposed to absorb, carbon is a micro pourous gas adsorbent material as it is rated in acres per pound of inner sufaface area ) the impurities. It can adsorb most molecules between argon and xylene except for co2 and o2 which you can use zeolite like they did in old submarine scrubber units

[StillerBoy]

but that is why whiskey is stored in charred barrels as it is a low grade form of activated carbon

Welcome to HD from a fellow Canadian from northern Ontario..

You bring a good point, and will fit right in..

Mars

[Johnsmih1010]

Where in n.ontario ?

[nuntius01]

welcome

[Johnsmih1010]

Thank you ! I am interested in continuous distillation but having trouble getting the search engine to zero in as opposed to every mention of continuous regardless of the context

[Johnsmih1010]

I am also a little hesitant to post pics as your guidelines limit the units to 30 gallons . The bottom boiler/steam generator is bigger than that as I built it for a small winery . I used a ss drum I welded up connected to ss packed column with a combination of ss tooling wAste ( really sharp and dangerous but effective if you don't play with it) because the mash is very acidic and actually melts copp r gauze but I use it in the second and third columns . I can run product out about 90-91% with a waste temp of 99.0 to 99.5 so 1/2 to 1/4 % loss . I average about 25000 btu /gallon ethanol

[Johnsmih1010]

I built a few 2" and 3 " columns but funny enough it's easier to make controls and feed for larger ones . I am working on the same design for seperation of maple syrup . Make some booze , make some maple syrup . How Canadian ,eh .
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[HDNB]

welcome to the forum.

you should check facts before posting blindly on topics that (you personally) have not been researched though... we will ask for proof and reference. I'm in Alberta and i can say for certain that no one distills in a bar and legally sells it without a bunch of licenses and and regulatory bullshit.

no doubt there are individuals that do sell illegally...which is not condoned and not up for discussion on this site. Selling unlicensed, untaxed liquor in Canada is still very illegal and comes with serious legal consequences.

In fact, the only "bar" i know of in Alberta is Park distillery in Banff. they, like every legal distiller in Alberta needed (but not limited to)
a building they own or control
a building use permit from municipality (building codes, fires codes, occupancy codes etc all approved)
a business license
federal excise spirits license
federal excise warehouse license
a business plan vetted and approved by excise Canada including a personal security screening.
a bond to the favour of the Crown, in the 25000 range
an AGLC class E manufacturers license
an AGLC class D manufacturer's off sale licence
an AGLC hospitality license (for bar/restaurant)
an AGLC special events license (for tasting room)
An AGLC addendum to special events for sales at a farmer's market
have the bottle and topper approved by the recycle commission
have the label approved by AGLC (license numbers, abv and company name and address and a don't drink and drive warning)
have the product assigned a CSPC number
have the product listed on liquor connect
Staff licensed as "proserve"

(plus being in a national park, Parks Canada blessing as well)

once all of those criteria are met and a ballpark of a total of about 7000.00 spent on permits alone, an "individual" can now make liquor for sale. EVERY drop made are reported monthly to excise Canada on two different forms, with a personal guarantee that the information is correct (no hiding behind a corporation here) and IF the individual "sells" something, he must fist "buy" it from the AGLC.

this is done by
1. write himself an invoice
2. deposit CASH or certified funds into a pre-approved AGLC account
3. create a secure file transfer to the AGLC and download it.
4. make a scan of the invoice, bank deposit and form 2061 and email to AGLC
5. report on a separate speadsheet the stock movement including licensee number, product number(s)... opening, produced and closing inventory numbers and opening ivoice and closing invoice (and they must be sequential)

hell even the raw materials must be accounted for and all internal documents and all areas of production and storage must be made available to inspectors of the AGLC and Excise Canada immediately, on demand.

THEN...he as an individual can sell the bottle to another individual.

even owning a still in Canada is punishable by 500k in fines, up to 5 years in prison, or both. Canada excise tax act section 60 (.1 i think) although i cannot find evidence the law is ever enforced...but i have found some arrests for selling bootleg booze.

needless to say your source of information was perhaps embellished on it's way to you.

[HDNB]

I am also a little hesitant to post pics as your guidelines limit the units to 30 gallons . The bottom boiler/steam generator is bigger than that as I built it for a small winery . I used a ss drum I welded up connected to 6" ss packed with a combination of ss tooling wAste ( really sharp and dangerous but effective if you don't play with it) because the mash is very acidic and actually melts copp r gauze but I use it in the second and third columns . I can run product out about 90-91% with a waste temp of 99.0 to 99.5 so 1/2 to 1/4 % loss . I average about 25000 btu /gallon ethanol

stay hesitant and abide the rules. this is teetering on being locked and /or deleted at the admin's leisure.

and please take discussions of topics to the appropriate forums. this is still the welcome centre after all.

[Johnsmih1010]

Well I agree with most of that except the maximum fine is 500$ for first AND second offence and the criminal aspect limits jail to 2 yeRs . Most vodka companies here don't actually distill ,ban** , prince i*** , iceb*** etc buy directly from lcbo here in Ontario amd just add wAter , a label and sell back . Ironically companies that make their own ,stillwa*** th lcbo won't carry as they don't sell it to them . In Ontario I first got fed licence ( reLtivly.cheAp) then you make your product and send it to the lcbo for testing and then cannopen your store . 7000$ is really cheap as I spent that just on one column . InstwSd of getting second part of license the winery got it and I work as a consultant .
If you do a bit of research the laws are changing rapidly thanks to several companies like the Toronto dist****** co owned by 2 lawyers . There are several companies selling equipment here already . We sold a bunch of equipment to some dispensaries for making neutral for the medical marijuana dispensaries for edibles . I have had severe medical issues so have been licence for that since 2010 . Not like a what your saying is wrong but things are changing fast just like the dispensaries which are also technically illegal but only till next yeR when the laws will change . Alberta is gearing up for legal distilling , as several bars I deL with have been travelling to New York for seminars. Funny the over sight is almost nil as in Ontario we have had everything from low proof40 to high proof 160 bring released to the public without any one catching it
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/E-14/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Johnsmih1010]

But that is why I am hesitant in discussing things . I own about every book on th subject and is hard to find more info . One of h best book is "fermented beverage production "by lea and piggot . We also have Ian smiley here in napean Ontario just outside Ottawa the author of " making corn whisky " and a couple others . I am l try to keep it ambiguous. Not sure where to put it but I developed a wY to continuously regenerate activated carbon that actually increases the carbon surface area ( iodine number) with each regeneration. I hav been debating. About posting the process for all who r interested. That wS how I started getting involved when I appprouched a few dozen distillers and winneries

[Johnsmih1010]

I also mentioned I am having trouble getting the search engine to find what I wNt . I searched activate carbon but it just pulled up million ( not a million but lots ) carbon posts and activated just came up mostly about yeast . Any advice ? I tried advanced search too .

[cede]

Hi and welcome from the east !
Yes things are changing and this is a good thing I think. I wait to see the same here and the day the board will disappear with the prohibition laws still floating around !

[Oldvine Zin]

I am also a little hesitant to post pics as your guidelines limit the units to 30 gallons . The bottom boiler/steam generator is bigger than that as I built it for a small winery . I used a ss drum I welded up connected to 6" ss packed with a combination of ss tooling wAste ( really sharp and dangerous but effective if you don't play with it) because the mash is very acidic and actually melts copp r gauze but I use it in the second and third columns . I can run product out about 90-91% with a waste temp of 99.0 to 99.5 so 1/2 to 1/4 % loss . I average about 25000 btu /gallon ethanol

stay hesitant and abide the rules. this is teetering on being locked and /or deleted at the admin's leisure.

and please take discussions of topics to the appropriate forums. this is still the welcome centre after all.

Not sure if this thread is going anywhere good

OVZ