UJSM Style Bourbon

[Antler24]

If I use rye/wheat/barley in a multiple generation ferment like UJSM, is there much benefit to cracking the grain? I want to buy a 25lb sack of each and know it'll keep longer if I keep the grains whole.

[cede]

Yes, you will benefit from cracking the grain as it will be easier for the yeast to eat the starch
I keep all my grains whole in sealed 5 gallon buckets and crack what I need each time.

[Badmotivator]

Yes, you will benefit from cracking the grain as it will be easier for the yeast to eat the starch
I keep all my grains whole in sealed 5 gallon buckets and crack what I need each time.

You got some weird yeast, cede. My yeast don’t know how to eat starch. I have to chew it for them by mashing and converting with enzymes.

[cede]

It's not only the yeast being weird, I'm also said to be strange in the village
That said, yes it's a big shorcut and mistake at a late time....
Well some mashing shall occur before the yeast can turn sugars into alcohol and co2.
I personnaly don't chew the grains, even if we did the experiment in class long time ago.

Back to the question.... Yes it will be easier to convert strach to sugars if cracked
Then of course yeast will work on that.

[Badmotivator]

I'm just playin'. I was probably being snarkier than I should.

But cede, Antler is talking about a no-mash recipe, like the UJSSM, which uses the grain for flavor and added sugar for fermenting. In other words, the grain does not get turned into alcohol. So I think he's asking if cracking the grain will affect the flavor of his wash and ultimately his spirit.

Antler, my guess is that cracking will make more grain flavor soak into the wash, but I don't have any direct evidence. Sorry I can't help on this one.

[Antler24]

Yes I'm talking about sugarhead, thanks for the comments boys. Anyone else have some experience?

[StillerBoy]

I'm just assuming here.. if cracked corn in a sugar head provide favour, then one has to asume that other grains will provide favour.. the question is, to what extend..

So Mike, you will have to experience first with small batch, and if it works out, then go big, but you will need to crack the other grains also..

Mars

[Pikey]

From a purely "logical" point of view, if you don't crack the grains - the "flour" in the centre will not be able to add flavour. I've never tried a sour mash with whole grain and never would even consider it.

[Antler24]

Looks like I'm gonna need to invest in a cheap Corona mill lol

[zapata]

I know where you're coming from Badmo, but the yeast will eat at least some of the starches. I was recently reading about bakers exploiting this in a technique they refer to as autolysis. It's not the same as our autolysis (yeast cells breaking about when they die). In baking the autolysis refers to the wheat cells in flour breaking down and natural amylase enzymes breaking the starch down to sugars for the yeast to eat (and proteases forming gluten from proteins). It's nowhere near as complete as a proper mash, but it apparently works sufficiently in 20 minutes to make a difference in bread, they literally just mix flour and water and let it sit for 20 minutes. And a wash sits around a lot longer than 20 minutes!

It's also the premise behind some people using the same grain for 3 rounds of sugar head before replacing it with fresh, with the implication that a significant amount of starch will actually be eaten over those 3 generations.
Of course we mostly rely on sugar to feed the yeast, if they could efficiently eat starch we'd never mash anything!
And back on topic, definitely course grind or at least crack your grains for best results. Both flavor and fuel. There is no doubt the grains will contribute to the flavor, many people have reported success with grains besides corn.

[Antler24]

I know where you're coming from Badmo, but the yeast will eat at least some of the starches. I was recently reading about bakers exploiting this in a technique they refer to as autolysis. It's not the same as our autolysis (yeast cells breaking about when they die). In baking the autolysis refers to the wheat cells in flour breaking down and natural amylase enzymes breaking the starch down to sugars for the yeast to eat (and proteases forming gluten from proteins). It's nowhere near as complete as a proper mash, but it apparently works sufficiently in 20 minutes to make a difference in bread, they literally just mix flour and water and let it sit for 20 minutes. And a wash sits around a lot longer than 20 minutes!

It's also the premise behind some people using the same grain for 3 rounds of sugar head before replacing it with fresh, with the implication that a significant amount of starch will actually be eaten over those 3 generations.
Of course we mostly rely on sugar to feed the yeast, if they could efficiently eat starch we'd never mash anything!
And back on topic, definitely course grind or at least crack your grains for best results. Both flavor and fuel. There is no doubt the grains will contribute to the flavor, many people have reported success with grains besides corn.

I know putting grain into a ujsm will get good results I was just curious about cracked vs whole. I ran a 70/16/14 corn, wheat, barley dugarhead a while back that's miles ahead of ujsm (imo), even white. Can't wait to see what it's like in a year.