uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Hellbilly13]

Well, I figured I might as well reiterate how good this recipe turns out. I read the whole thread and it took me so long that I fermented and stripped 5 generations. I followed the original recipe exactly. I ran my spirit runs this weekend and filled my new 5 liter barrel.

I just now sat down and cut a little of what was left over down to 90 proof. I just can't believe how good this is white! Smoother than just about any top shelf I've tasted. Unreal how good this is after only a few days out of the still!

As I was reading through the thread I saw many people gushing like I am now about how good it was. I didn't believe it could be that good until tonight. Thank you to all the contributors to this thread.

Finally, I recommend any newbies out there to start with this recipe and read the entire thread. I wasted 2 years making what I now know was mediocre rum. I could have had 2 year old UJSSM by now.

[sltm1]

Another believer !!!

[Hellbilly13]

Another believer !!!

Yes sir! I can't wait to see what the barrel does to it. I suspect it will be good. I am a patient man.

[butterpants]

What % of backset to new fermentation is too much for UJSSM?

I just did about 33% backset and the yeast seem a little stressed out though there was no stalling and it finished dry. More sulfur production than normal is all. pH is 4 so that's in spec. Previously I'd been using 4 gallons BS in a 20 gal ferment.

Just wondering...

[Expat]

What % of backset to new fermentation is too much for UJSSM?

I just did about 33% backset and the yeast seem a little stressed out though there was no stalling and it finished dry. More sulfur production than normal is all. pH is 4 so that's in spec. Previously I'd been using 4 gallons BS in a 20 gal ferment.

Just wondering...

No more than 50%, I believe this is stated in the thread. Otherwise the PH will be very low (acidic).

[sltm1]

I use a gallon per 8 gallon wash.

[Bushman]

1 gallon per 5.5 gallon wash.

[butterpants]

Ok so 12-18%, not 30 something peeps are using. Thanks!

[sltm1]

Correct-o-mundo !!! Not sure who might have recommended 30%...that's way too much.

[Saltbush Bill]

Ive always used it at a ratio of 4-5L to a 28L ferment, I'm on the other side of 50 gens now and have never had to adjust ph or had any other fermentation issue.

[Expat]

Ive always used it at a ratio of 4-5L to a 28L ferment, I'm on the other side of 50 gens now and have never had to adjust ph or had any other fermentation issue.

Question for you Saltbush, Do you find the flavor has plateaued after so many generations or does it continue to change?

[Saltbush Bill]

I can only speak for my own UJ , but it seemed to stay at the same flavor level after a while. Ive tried UJ style spirits made by quite a few other distillers, Id say mine is about average for flavor, a few Ive tried have had more flavour and a few have had less.
I like mine as do most of my visitors / friends, that is what counts to me.
Very little of mine is drunk white , mostly its aged on medium to heavy toasted American Oak, that adds to the flavour as time goes by.

[butterpants]

Anyone care to share their UJSSM final blend tasting notes (white, unaged) to traditional Bourbon mashes (standard, wheated, high rye), Booners or cornflake whiskey? I realize cuts and blending come into play but lets just assume that most of us cut a significant portion of heads out, full hearts saved and dig a little into tails for flavor and did a double distillation.

I've got UJSSM, Booners(ish) and wheated Bourbon on hand but I'd really like to hear from someone who's made them all...

If you've got oaked comparisons too that's fine, I just don't.... yet

[Canuckwoods]

I was disappointed in the amount of low wines I got from my last batch about half of what I usually get. I measured my ph and it is down to 3 is this what is hindering the yeast? if so what is the optimum ph for a sour mash?

[Expat]

I was disappointed in the amount of low wines I got from my last batch about half of what I usually get. I measured my ph and it is down to 3 is this what is hindering the yeast? if so what is the optimum ph for a sour mash?

Yes, PH needs to be higher for the yeast. Sounds like you ran a stuck ferment and a lot of your sugar was unused. Aim for the 4-5 range.

[butterpants]

I was disappointed in the amount of low wines I got from my last batch about half of what I usually get. I measured my ph and it is down to 3 is this what is hindering the yeast? if so what is the optimum ph for a sour mash?

3.5-4.5 is fine for most yeast. Above 4.5 is more potential for nasties to grow. Tread carefully.

[Canuckwoods]

I started this way back with DADY I'll toss in a few shells and cut back on the backset I was using 1.5 gallons per 4-gallon batch (i need a bigger still) I will go with 1

[Appalachian spirits]

I do my sourmash the same way Jessee. I add 1 lb suger per gallon and 25% backset with the same process for spent grain. I typically remove about 10 tp 20 percent.
My favorite recipe is 60% corn, 30% barely and 10% rye or for rye whiskey i use 50% corn, 40% rye and 10% barley malt.
Sour mash is my favorite spirit and when aged with oak chips or sticks it makes a pretty respectible whiskey.
I recently have stateted using stainless aquarium heaters in my mash barrel to hold a constant fermintation temp with very good results and im curious if anyone else has done this? Im pretty sure im not the first.

[PetePetosa]

Appalachian, what temp are you holding your mash to with the heaters?

[Jamco]

Would it be possible to make this recipe with corn flour............I searched the thread and found nothing.........Only asking because that's what I have..Thx

[Expat]

I would expect it's possible to do with flour, however you're going to have a hell of a time even stirring it when it turns into a bucket of slop. You'd probably also have to squeeze it before running, which would make add to the fun

I would say don't.

Edit: Also, not sure how you would determine what is spent and what isn't.

[Jamco]

Thx Expat that's what I thought.............

[Expat]

You might consider doing something like Booners simple corn. It's definitely more complex than UJSM but would make effective use of your corn. Give those threads look.

[Jamco]

Well I had to try, and I think this will work, with some changes. In a test I made, I used 4oz of water 3 tbsp sugar 3 tbsp corn meal, ¼ gram yeast nutrient and 1/4 grams bakers yeast. Within 20 fermentation started in an hour it has a half inch cap. I can see the particles of corn raising and falling in the jar. Now I could be wrong but haven't I read somewhere in similar washes that the corn is removed from the top once or twice daily, and if that's the case I'd be able to remove the spent corn, and possibly use less corn since the meal should transfer more flavor than cracked. If Jesse recommends 7 lbs of cracked corn per 5 gallons of water & sugar with 1/3 of the corn being removed after fermentation, I should be able to use 6 lbs of meal for a 12 gallon wash, then discarding all the corn after fermentation. In my small test the corn did not gel since the water never exceeded 95f.

I've been happy for years primarily running Rads all bran recipe, but I wanted information on a larger fermenter to run double batches, so I typed brute® into the search and SCD's large batch thread came up. Wow a new recipe just what I've been looking for and corn which I've been wanting to try, so off to TSC I went. But before I left decided to make Ujusm vs SCD AG, but when I checked the white tag on the cracked corn it listed propriadic acid, Jesse’s recipe said to avoid preservatives. I did a Quick search on HD and I decided to get whole corn vs cracked. I thought I could throw this corn in the food processor and crack it, lol now I know. I cleaned dried processed blended and finally placed large trays of the ground corn in an open oven @ 200f for 15 minutes each sifting the corn with a spatula in and out of the oven till it cooled, hoping to remove all this moisture I released during processing. Something I read here on HD, I can't remember when but I know I didn't want any fungus / mold growing on my grain, because I had no idea what or when I was going to do with 50lbs of this stuff. So I sealed it in some buckets and it's nice and dry, so I'm happy.

Within a week I'm going to throw a batch in the fermenter, in theory I don't see why this wouldn't work, it doesn't seem as though the corn is gelling, and I'd suspect the finer corn that's rising and sinking through this mash will transfer more corn flavor than cracked, I’ll be able to use less corn but I’ll have to pitch new yeast for each batch, or leave the spent corn and yeast in the fermenter and add additional corn for a new batch. Discarding the spent corn etc every other wash, possibly into a thumper, or making a gumball

This is a huge thread and you all have so much experience I'd appreciate any input advice suggestions you can send my way. I know I'm not the first to do this, but in 240+ pages it seems this hasn't been done.

[Saltbush Bill]

I read somewhere in similar washes that the corn is removed from the top once or twice daily, and if that's the case I'd be able to remove the spent corn, and possibly use less corn since the meal should transfer more flavor than cracked.

Ive never read of removing corn or any other grain daily.
Most people remove some grain from the grain bed at the bottom of the fermenter every second or third ferment. The amount removed varies from person to person, as does the frequency of removal.
My own experience tells me that very little if any "spent grain" ever floats to the top,except as a cap when the ferment is working hard. Once the ferment is done it will all sink to the bottom and pretty much stay there.
I expect your flour will do a similar thing , but I think it will set in a hard layer on the bottom if you let it settle long enough, before racking off the wash.

[Jamco]

.

Ive never read of removing corn or any other grain daily.[/quote]

been reading Ian Smiley's "making pure corn whiskey" mentions removing floating corn....... it's also referenced in this thread as being part of the recipe, although Jesse doesn't mention it, thx for clearing that up for me Yes the lees did settle on the bottom of the fermentor as usual but not at all hard, and the wash had a very fresh sour bitter taste. I can't wait to get this runnin.........

[HDNB]

think the suggestion is to remove the top layer of the lees to make room for some fresh grain for more flavour.

strangely enough the top inch or so of the "spent" grain is yellow and the stuff unnerneath is grey. (or maybe i remember this backwards)

not daily, but when you make the next wash up.

[Saltbush Bill]

sour bitter taste.

You got it

[zapata]

I've used corn meal in a UJ style ferment a number of times. I would not replace it all after a single batch, I think a lot of flavor comes out in the 2nd or 3rd gen since the corn meal has been soaking in an acidic alcoholic brew and breaking down. Meal does mean you'll have to let it settle a bit more to be able to siphon off clear to run, but it works fine. Last time I did this starting from scratch I just added new meal each gen for the first 2 or 3 gens, then removed as much meal as I added each time on subsequent generations. I didn't remove any particular layer, just scooped out the muck before adding new. Worked fine, can't say it was really any better than when I've used plain old cracked corn though.

[Jamco]

Thanks Zapata I really appreciate the advice.