dry malt extract for whiskey

[blind drunk]

Just a couple of quick questions - I have access to some DME that is a very light tan color. I'd like to make some malty whiskey with it. What should I know before I make the beer?

Does 2 pounds of DME to 1 US gallon of water sound right? Thanks, bd.

[Barney Fife]

No need to go that strong; I was doing 7lbs DME to 5 gallons, and getting roughly 5% ABV; makes great drink....

[Dnderhead]

2lb per gal. will give you 8.8 abv --- og 1.o88/fg 1.o22
watch out when you distill it tends to foam... leave extra head space..... bring temps. up slow.

[Hack]

I've made it with 2lb to the gallon before. It works great. My only complaint is, if you have to pay for the DME, it's an expensive wash. And like dnderhead said it foams really easy when you bring it up to boil.

[blind drunk]

Great, I'll order a sack and give it a try. In the meantime, I gotta get more fermenting buckets to deal with the current back log

[plonker]

Hmm.. Im wondering if it foams because it hasn't been boiled?

When I make an extract beer, I boil the mash until you get a hot break. The malt can boil over very easily until you get the break. After the break it doesnt seem to foam anymore..

Quote from John Palmer from the how to brew site.

"A foam will start to rise (from the mash) and form a smooth surface. This is good. If the foam suddenly billows over the side, this is a boil-over (Bad). If it looks like it is going to boil over, either lower the heat or spray the surface with water from a spray bottle. The foam is caused by proteins in the wort that coagulate due to the rolling action of the boil. The wort will continue to foam until the protein clumps get heavy enough to sink back into the pot. You will see particles floating around in the wort. It may look like Egg Drop Soup. This is called the Hot break and may take 5-20 minutes to occur, depending on the amount of protein in your extract."

So im wondering, If I boil the extract first to get this hot break, will it then not foam in my still?

[olddog]

I have run liquid malt extract before without a problem, in fact I have a mash fermenting now with some rolled barley added.
Never tried the dried version.

[Hack]

Hmm.. Im wondering if it foams because it hasn't been boiled?

When I make an extract beer, I boil the mash until you get a hot break. The malt can boil over very easily until you get the break. After the break it doesnt seem to foam anymore..

Quote from John Palmer from the how to brew site.

"A foam will start to rise (from the mash) and form a smooth surface. This is good. If the foam suddenly billows over the side, this is a boil-over (Bad). If it looks like it is going to boil over, either lower the heat or spray the surface with water from a spray bottle. The foam is caused by proteins in the wort that coagulate due to the rolling action of the boil. The wort will continue to foam until the protein clumps get heavy enough to sink back into the pot. You will see particles floating around in the wort. It may look like Egg Drop Soup. This is called the Hot break and may take 5-20 minutes to occur, depending on the amount of protein in your extract."

So im wondering, If I boil the extract first to get this hot break, will it then not foam in my still?

The easy way to try would be to bring it to a boil twice. I'll have to try that with my next batch of extract beer.

[Barney Fife]

I never thought of bringing it to a boil before fermenting, either. Keep us posted!

[plonker]

I have just put a dried malt whisky wash on, and I did boil the wash to get the hot break. Trouble is, with a SS boiler, how am I going to know if it foams or not?

Hmm.. maybe I need a glass window in the head?

[Barney Fife]

You'll know...

[Hack]

I have just put a dried malt whisky wash on, and I did boil the wash to get the hot break. Trouble is, with a SS boiler, how am I going to know if it foams or not?

Hmm.. maybe I need a glass window in the head?

It'll puke into your thumper. You might not know it's happening, but with a thumper it's not the end of the world. It'll make it like you charged the thumper with low wines. I've had this happen before and it had no real effect on things. The proof of the spirits was a little lower, it brought more flavor across than I was expecting, and my thumper was a little fuller than normal after my run. However, I'll bet since you boiled it beforehand that you probably won't have a problem.

[bronzdragon]

Yes DME makes fine whiskey, however I agree with all the counts listed above...

1) Do bring it to a boil and watch for the hotbreak. This is just like making a beer with it, you just don't have to boil it for very long.

2) It is pretty expensive unless you can find some on sale. Sometimes you may find a local homebrew site or one on the web that is getting rid of DME or LME for that matter, that is older and charging a lot less. Or if you have a local homebrew store, they may be able to get you a good deal on a 50 pound bag. If you find a deal on LME, make sure it is unhopped, though. DME is generally a lot easier to work with (less sticky.)

--You can also get DME that is partially wheat malt if you like wheat in your whiskey.

cheers

~r~

[tomraven]

I am a novice and was thinking of using liquid malt extract and sugar to make my first whisky.

Am I right in guessing that in LME and DME, the starches have already been converted to fermentable sugars and that no enzymes or heating is required?

Can I simply make a mash using LME, sugar, yeast and nutrients?

Thanks

TR

[rubber duck]

I am a novice and was thinking of using liquid malt extract and sugar to make my first whisky.

Am I right in guessing that in LME and DME, the starches have already been converted to fermentable sugars and that no enzymes or heating is required?

Can I simply make a mash using LME, sugar, yeast and nutrients?

Thanks

TR

Yes that will work. I would invert the sugar first, just heat it up with a little citric acid or lime/ lemon juice. I like the DME better then the liquid. Also use the light DME and don't bring it to a boil, just pasteurize it. If you boil it it will caramelize a little and the flavor might not be quite what your looking for. The nutrients are optional.

[Barney Fife]

You're on the right track, but there's no need for any nutrients; everything the yeast needs is in the malt extract.

I'm enjoying last year's malt(DME) whiskey right now, in fact. Mighty fine!

[astronomical]

seems like a 50# bag of DME is only going to yield about ~2.4G of 40%. Possibly less. It was crude math. That is also assuming that 50% is deemed feints. For a bit over $2/LB it seems worth it to me. Not to mention people are using the backset to make a fine product too. And the feints could go into that run. It's obviously much more costly than a sugar wash, but, its basically all grain.

From what I've gleaned, some of the biggest drawbacks of extract brewing (beer) is the restriction of imagination. Is this still pertinent in distilling? If I use one extract than its a single malt right?

20-25$ for a 6 gallon wash is pricy, but, is sure beats countless hours of brewing an AG. Thats just me though, I'd rather just make beer at that point. I'm sure I'll make an AG someday but this seems like a good alternative. Im really excited about this.

I found a place in IL called Mid Country Malts that sells DME wholesale for $98 for 50# and its about 14$ shipping. You gotta call it in.

[donpelon]

Ugh, tried a mix of all-grain and DME, just to bring up the abv some from 4%-8%. My brewer friend had made it for me, and asked me to distill it for him. This stuff bubbled up bad, puked into my thumper and then was puking out the condenser. Let it all stop boiling, tried again, same result. When I opened up the boiler, it was filled with spiderweb-like strands of weird glue stuff all over the place and caked to the sides of the boiler. Nasty. I just ordered some anti-foam agent online and will see if this makes difference on a 2nd attempt- otherwise I'm dumping this whole batch.

[butterpants]

I use Five Stars 105 kettle defoamer. Just a drop or two in 10 gallons. Some people use butter or oil because it natural but significantly more is needed. Your call. No issues. I'd boil and get a solid hot break from it before you ferment if possible.

I've had certain brands of DME foam significantly more than others. Just use LME, it's already had the snot boiled out of it.

[RNaka]

Thought I'd share my results from my recent foray into all DME no boil "Whisky".

I ordered 50 lbs of Briess Pilsen DME ($150 shipped). Filled four fermenting buckets (would have done more but is all I have) with about 4 gallons of tap water (about 103 degrees).

Added 8 lbs of DME to each using drill/paint stirrer and topped off each bucket to about 6 gallons (about 5.5% ABV.) and sprinkled in 18 grams Safpirit Malt yeast. Started bubbling almost immediately

Total time less than an hour.

Fermented dry in about 5 days and ran my first batch through my 8 gallon pot still. No Puking and got 1 gallon of low wines at about 28% abv. Smells and taste like whisky.

Going to do 6 batches and then a spirit run with 6 gallons of low wines and age in a 3 gallon Gibbs barrel.

Obviously more costly than all grain but, given that it would have taken me weeks to do the same via all grain, well worth the time savings, at least to me.

The proof however will be in the results and won't know that for months

Reed

[Evil_Dark]

Thought I'd share my results from my recent foray into all DME no boil "Whisky".

I ordered 50 lbs of Briess Pilsen DME ($150 shipped). Filled four fermenting buckets (would have done more but is all I have) with about 4 gallons of tap water (about 103 degrees).

Added 8 lbs of DME to each using drill/paint stirrer and topped off each bucket to about 6 gallons (about 5.5% ABV.) and sprinkled in 18 grams Safpirit Malt yeast. Started bubbling almost immediately

Total time less than an hour.

Fermented dry in about 5 days and ran my first batch through my 8 gallon pot still. No Puking and got 1 gallon of low wines at about 28% abv. Smells and taste like whisky.

Going to do 6 batches and then a spirit run with 6 gallons of low wines and age in a 3 gallon Gibbs barrel.

Obviously more costly than all grain but, given that it would have taken me weeks to do the same via all grain, well worth the time savings, at least to me.

The proof however will be in the results and won't know that for months

Reed

Any update on this RNaka? How it did turned out?
And for the non-boiled mash, do you think that your stripping run didn't tend to puke because you had enough head room? Basically you had roughly 25% of headspace (6 gals in a 8 gal pot still), is that why you had no problems maybe... How did ya managed the temperature? Did you were more shy than usual on the temperature or you didn't see any difference?

Seems to me a good alternative to a traditional all grain mash!

Thanks

[RNaka]

Any update on this RNaka? How it did turned out?
And for the non-boiled mash, do you think that your stripping run didn't tend to puke because you had enough head room? Basically you had roughly 25% of headspace (6 gals in a 8 gal pot still), is that why you had no problems maybe... How did ya managed the temperature? Did you were more shy than usual on the temperature or you didn't see any difference?

Seems to me a good alternative to a traditional all grain mash!

Thanks

Sorry for late reply. I seldom login anymore.

No puking but I was careful in raising the boiler temp.

I let it age in a Gibbs barrel for about a 18 months then bottled it.

Just opened one last week and am really happy with the results.

Kinda like Oban

Don’t still as much anymore but you just motivated me to do this again

Thanks

Reed

[Evil_Dark]

Just opened one last week and am really happy with the results.

Kinda like Oban

Don’t still as much anymore but you just motivated me to do this again

Thanks

Reed

Happy to hear that yu'll heat up the boiler again
Thanks for the feedback.
I've done a DME run also on my side. I did'nt aged long enough yet to tell much, but I rapid aged the half of the collected spirit and let the other half alone with oak dominoes for a long term.
The rapid aged is tasting very good, more like a scothch (probably due to the DME selection I made).

Very interesting to do!

Regards,

[Bushman]

Thanks for reviving this thread some of the most knowledgeable members have posted on this thread. Three of them are know longer posting on the forum.

[bilgriss]

I agree! I reread this and there's a ton of good info.

Things to keep in mind:

Dry Malt extract typically HAS already been boiled before being spray dehydrated. You'll see some no-boil beer recipes with extract for this reason, although usually with pre-hopped LME. It is mashed at a higher temperature than we typically do for distilling, so there's a little loss, and significant residual sugar to be careful about heating and not scorching on the stripping run. If you use an electric element, you may find a dark crust afterwards on your element which is hard to clean. This is carbonized sugar mostly. It will also tend to puke even more than a straight barley malt mash, mostly for the same reason. Heat it low and slow and you can still have good luck.

Works great, but it's also true that barley malt is much cheaper, and can be mashed to get more alcohol, less residual sugar, and a little easier heating in the boiler.

[malt_lover]

I use it to bump gravity. I add digestive syrup bought from pharmacy, containing Aspergillus amylase. Advantage is, you can add directly to fermenter and it will convert all residual sugars. Small quantity is enough.

[Evil_Dark]

I use it to bump gravity. I add digestive syrup bought from pharmacy, containing Aspergillus amylase. Advantage is, you can add directly to fermenter and it will convert all residual sugars. Small quantity is enough.

Very interesting, can you elaborate a bit more on the qty? Example for a 20L (5gal) ferment, how much Aspergillus would you add ?

[malt_lover]

I use it to bump gravity. I add digestive syrup bought from pharmacy, containing Aspergillus amylase. Advantage is, you can add directly to fermenter and it will convert all residual sugars. Small quantity is enough.

Very interesting, can you elaborate a bit more on the qty? Example for a 20L (5gal) ferment, how much Aspergillus would you add ?

Hello, I use only two table spoons or two cap full of it. I usually put in fermenter and let it do it’s thing. This is same fungi which is used to convert boiled rice at room temperature.

[Evil_Dark]

Hello, I use only two table spoons or two cap full of it. I usually put in fermenter and let it do it’s thing. This is same fungi which is used to convert boiled rice at room temperature.

Thanks for the info, good to know! I may try in the future ferments.