5.5 / 11 kW Heater for 4" Flute on 15.5 Boiler

[DetroitDIY]

This is a brief sojourn on designing my heater controller for my new flute (viewtopic.php?f=17&t=65335). Just thought it may be better not to pack too many varied topics into the flute build

I am building a heater for a 4” flute, which I’m expecting won’t need more than 4 kW when running the perforated plates, and may need up to 9 kW when running a packed section. I have yet to ever run my flute, but this is what I’ve gathered from reading.

Given the common, high power heater element available seems to be a 5.5 kW, 240 V element, I’m installing two into the boiler in such a way that I can easily pull either one and cap off the boiler, or keep them both installed. For running rum, brandy and whiskey, I’ll just use one, and when making vodka I’ll use them both. It’ll need a bit of dedicated electrical wiring too. Two dedicated, 30 A, 240 V outlets… close to the sub-panel where I run the still.
Starting out with my (less than) best laid plans… I wanted to make the heaters portable, small, and fashionable (at least to my senses). And I quickly lost sight of practical and serviceable…

The first image shows one kit I planned to make. It’s pretty much a straight lift of Cranky’s Super Simple Controller, at least in the SSR choice and potentiometer. I selected a 240 V fan, and a double pole industrial switch instead of a key operation. For fun, I added in an analog voltmeter and ammeter. I salvaged a bit of proper HV electrical wiring for the connections. A tri-clamp heater element (with a mating fitting welded onto the boiler. And picked two Irish oatmeal cans that I planned to shove everything in, joining the two cans on top of each other. My idea of beauty.

The second image is my sketch of how I planned to wire everything together. A schematic on top, with a more useful wiring diagram for all the connections on bottom. What should be clear from these is that I’m not a proper electrician, but I play one when need be.

[DetroitDIY]

These three images are installing the volt and am meters into what is to become the upper can. I marked the size of the meter faces that I wanted to poke through, drilled small holes inside the area for the meter face, used a razor knife to “connect the dots” I drilled in (the can is pretty thin walled material), use a tin snips to cut many little fingers to the diameter of the circle I traced originally for the meter faces, and bent the tabs back with a gloved hand. Repeat for the second meter, and pop them through from the inside.

[DetroitDIY]

Now I’ve popped the power switch through a side just adjacent to the two meters. And in the second image I’ve opened up the bottom of the upper can. The plan is for the fan to be packaged in the upper can, and draw air from holes in the bottom can, such that it pulls air across the cooling fin tree under the SSR which will be mounted in the lower can. In the last image, you can see both meters, the switch and the fan packaged in the first can.

This should have screamed at me that I’d never get the components wired together… but I persisted.

[DetroitDIY]

On the lower can, I’ve drilled a hole for the potentiometer and stuck it through, I placed the wire pass through on the back end, I’ve bent the cooling fin tree to mount to the ID of the can. Not shown here, but additional work I did was perforate the back of the can about the wire I/O area for air inlet, and mount the SSR. And the second image is of what "pretty" might have looked like if I ever had a prayer of wiring this all up. I tried to wire it for an hour or so and finally realized this was futile and ill conceived. I need a new, easier to access container.

[DetroitDIY]

Came up short looking for a good, conductive enclosure to package everything in and keep it readily accessible. I didn’t really want to buy a metal box that would be sturdy enough as I figured that would be too expensive. Then I came across these ammo boxes at Costco; one small inside of a larger box. A few quick measurements and I thought I could package it, and could fit my second heater controller into the smaller ammo box (which is a bit more high tech and skips the analog meters).

In this first image I’ve bent the SSR fin base back to flat, slathered some good thermal grease between the SSR base and the cooling fin base, drilled two holes into the ammo box end wall and mounted the SSR. Pay no attention to the wiring, it’s all wrong here. I was using 10 gauge (30A) solid wire. It’s plenty capable, but is rather stiff and I ended up using 10 gauge stranded wire by the end.

In the second image, you can see the box overall with the SSR mounted. Nifty little feature in the ammo box design, the hinged lid is easily slipped off its hinges to provide full access to the interior, and then easily slipped back on with a gasketed seal (which is pretty well defeated by me drilling holes throughout the box).

The ammo box wall thickness is much greater than the oatmeal cans I had, so instead of tin snips, I used one of the carbide hole saws I bought for the flute build. If you’re patient, you can get an assorted set of hole sizes for a decent price on e-bay (from China). 45 mm diameter was the right size for these two meters (also from China via e-bay).

The last image shows the first hole drilled, and the second pilot in place. I placed these on the opposite end of the SSR.

[DetroitDIY]

OK… I stopped taking photos of every step. The first image shows the two meters installed, the potentiometer below, and the switch at the bottom. To make the switch opening, I made 3 drill pilot holes, then reamed each one out with to a larger diameter with one of those stepped reaming bits, then filed it to the right rectangle size using a bastard and a triangle file.

Next image you can see all the components on the inside of the box. Here I’ve used the green stranded 10 gauge wire so that the cords would be more flexible outside of the box. I’ve mounted the fan to the base of the ammo box. I had to fab up some simple brackets out of aluminum to hold the fan in place on the bottom center of the box. Fortunately the ammo box has a small center ridge in the bottom that allows met o secure the fan to the base without having the fastener heads stick proud on the bottom surface… so the box still sits flat on a table.

The next image shows the back side of the box where I added the wire clamp and brought out 3 wires for the electrical plug: (2) 120 V lines and (1) ground for all the case grounding. These I wrapped in white electrical tape, just to keep them together and avoid extra tangling.

I hard wired in the heater element with the (2) output 120 V lines, and wrapped them in green tape to keep things tidy.

This last image shows the system with the lid unlatched. It pops up once the latch is undone. My plan is to keep the system closed when not in operation, and pop the lid open when I’m running things to allow the fan to circulate air inside the box and some air to flow in/out of the box.

I have yet to run the system, and am not sure at this point that I wired the two meters the right way… I may try to test them with a 9 V battery to see if I can get a response. If not, I’ll just run it and if the gauges don’t move I’ll try reversing the wires.

Second heater will be the subject of a follow up post… but I have to build it first.

[shadylane]

Nice build Detroit
I'm running a 16ish gallon boiler with two 5500w heaters and a 4" column.
For me, column flooding isn't the problem, it's the boiler puking.
The pot will begin to boil over and puke at 5.5kw on one element
Dividing the power between both elements lets me get away with 6.5 - 7.0 kw

[DetroitDIY]

Hmmm... thanks for the feedback Shady. If you just charge the boiler with less does that help reduce he puking issue? How much charge do you use in your boiler (keg?)? Do you use a surfactant?

And why do you think the two elements helps you get higher power before puking? I'm going to guess that your elements are at something like 90 degrees apart form one another with respect to the circumference of your keg. And that that helps distribute the heat a bit in your boiler. Let me know if you have other thoughts on why yours works the way it does.

Unfortunately when I put the fittings in for my boiler I made it for 2 just in case one burned out half way through a run... not because I had envisioned running > 5.5 kW at one time. The awareness of needing that came later. Anyways, I placed my two heater elements just slightly offset from one another (circumference and elevation wise)... thus poor heat distribution when running both. The only minor distribution I may be able to realize is by criss crossing the two sine wave elements so they are not directly on top of one another along their entire lengths.

[DetroitDIY]

Hey... I have another question for all of you electricians and EEs out there. I grounded everything in this design EXCEPT the base of the heating element that will be connected with the tri-clamp to my boiler. And the tri-clamp will likely electrically couple the entire still to the heater base through the tri-clamp... albeit not a great low resistance connection, but I'm thinking plenty good for safety at 240 Vac. Does that sound correct?

Assuming so, I guess the only issue that leaves is that I haven't electrically grounded he still. Maybe I'll sneak a copper wire from the boiler back to a good ground somewhere. Maybe I should just add a ground wire from the heater base back through my integrated electrical connection.

Appreciate your thoughts out there, thanks.

[Hoosier Shine9]

Hey Detroit.
I run a column similar to yours on a 15.5 keg. I am using a single 4500w element.
I had bought the last 5500w that the store had and thought it was bad, when I returned it they only had 4500w left so.....
I have bubble insulation around the keg.
At full power and about 13gal in it, takes about 30 to 35 minutes to get the top of the column to 185* and start getting reflux starting.
I hold in full reflux for 30-45 minutes.
drop to about 2/3 power for the run.
and am finished right at 4 hours from power on to power off.
I would like to go to 5500w but I am not sure how much time would be saved going to 11000w.
here is a pic of my rig.

[zapata]

Detroit, I am not an E, much less EE. But I would definitely ground the boiler. My go to keg boiler is grounded via the element housing. I rely on the triclamp to carry ground to the boiler via the flange.
Wire -> ground nut in element housing -> triclamp -> flange -> boiler
I think the triclamp is sufficient ground path myself, but again am not an EE.
Another keg boiler doesn't have a nice element housing, so I just run the ground wire to a screw in the base of the keg skirt, I used an existing weep hole there (the keg had 2 weep holes so the round lip of the skirt is still vented which is important).
However you go about it, I believe grounding the boiler is essential.
Also want to add, I think the oatmeal tins would have been super cool!

[DetroitDIY]

Hoosier, yes, your build looks similar to mine. Except it looks like you've included tilt plates rather than changing the column height. Is that section above your plates for packing? Do you add/remove it as needed or always keep it in? How long is your packed section and what are you filling it with?

Zapata, I agree. I'll get it grounded at the element. And yes, the oatmeal cans would have been sweet, but these ammo boxed are more stable, accessible, and structural. Sacrifices, sacrifices.

Take care guys.

[Hoosier Shine9]

Hoosier, yes, your build looks similar to mine. Except it looks like you've included tilt plates rather than changing the column height. Is that section above your plates for packing? Do you add/remove it as needed or always keep it in? How long is your packed section and what are you filling it with?

Take care guys.

Detroit,
The plates are bubble caps.
The valves you see are to drain any/all plates during the run. They dump to the plate directly below.
I have never run any type of packing. I am not sure why it was designed with that open area in the column. Might have been for availability of using a Gin Basket.

[DetroitDIY]

Hey Hoosier,

I've ran my 5.5 kW heater a couple weekends back. It seemed to run OK at first, and then ping at 5.5 kW after a few minutes and I couldn't change it. If I shut it off and then restarted a few minutes later I had control again, but if I got too close to 5.5 kW, it would ping there and stay again.

I consulted with a friend who's a EE and excellent at such issues. He said the photos of my work and the schematic I drew up look right.

I read some of Amazon reviews for the SSR I bought and saw lots of different complaints and stories. One person mentioned that while their pot was at the 470-550 kOhm range needed, the pot power was off. I checked my set up and my SSR wanted 2 W while my pot was 0.5 W. So I bought a new, 2 W, 470 kOhm pot and wired it up for my run this past weekend. It did a little better... I could keep the power controllable up to around 3 kW, but much higher and it would ping at 5.5 kW again.

I also read a few discussions about people dissecting their SSRs from this company and finding that the design was over rated, and is really less capable. Since I'm able to maintain the 5.5 kW, I don't know that that was exactly my problem, but I wonder if some of the internal SSR isolation/controls are off and that's why it keeps going wrong. That lead me to an article on my particular brand (Fotek) which talked a lot about counterfeit SSRs that are shoddy and less capable out there on the market.

As such, I've now ordered a new SSR from another brand to see if that will fix the issue and give me back control. As it stands now, I'm putting out too much continuous power and that's causing my coolant system to get over whelmed. Working on making my cooling more capable too, but that's another story.

[DetroitDIY]

Tried to ground my heater on the element, but there's just too little real estate on that thing after the tri-clamp is fitted on. I tried to solder on a ground nut to the tri-clamp base (I don't do stainless welding) but I couldn't do it with a torch as I would have damaged the plastic insulator around the heater element, and the iron I was trying just couldn't put out enough heat to get anything but the saddest cold solder that quickly failed. So right now I've jury rigged a ground to the boiler tank. I need something more permanent like put an eyelet no the ground and bolt it to the tank.

Have others had success in attaching their ground directly to the heater element for a tri-clamp design? If so, I would love to know how you did it.

[MtRainier]

The one I used has a ground screw included.

Dernord 2 Inch (OD64) Tri-clamp... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N2WI65Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Hoosier Shine9]

The controller I have is the "kit" from StillDragon. I have not had any issues with it.
The one thing I need/want to do is add a meter in the box. I am using a clamp meter on the output side.
I know it is NOT perfect however I get repeatable readings.

[bluefish_dist]

On the controller getting stuck, I had an eBay one that did that. Finally failed after 2+ years. I think it was heat related, keep it cool and it was not an issue. I have since installed one from still dragon and it works fine. Cost was right too.

With a 4" I have run 6000w on perf plates. Having the extra power will be nice.

[MtRainier]

The controller I have is the "kit" from StillDragon. I have not had any issues with it.
The one thing I need/want to do is add a meter in the box. I am using a clamp meter on the output side.
I know it is NOT perfect however I get repeatable readings.

This one works well for me on my controller. I cut a rectangle into the box and mounted it in. It is powered by 240v.

http://a.co/g0brrih" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[DetroitDIY]

Huh. Mine is a Denrod too. Same power and voltage as yours Rainier, but doesn't have as thick a stub coming off the flange and no ground screw. Yours is definitely tidier. But my cheap bastard version is nearly half the price. I wonder if there's any other functional difference. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MT ... 5NVFP7DUSD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The Stilldragon kit seems nice. I expect I ended up spending more for my bits (especially after purchasing the wrong pot and a bad SSR). We're I to do it again I might go that way, though I'm happy with my design... just need to get a proper working SSR. The new one I have on order is different from the Stilldragon make. Let's hope it's better than the initial one I bought.

I do have yet to build my second controller up, which is an Inkbird programmable kit (no box nor wiring... for that I'll used the leftovers from my first controller). It does have a temp sensor feedback that I need to add to the still. I'm thinking that would go on the boiler side of my dephleg so it konws what the vapor temp is regardless of whether I"m in reflux or not. I do have an analog thermometer on both sides of my dephleg (I know it's redundant, but it does allow me to understand the heat capacitance of the dephleg a bit and predict my system behavior better.