Keg still tower design questions

[fafrd]

That long ass shell condenser seems completely pointless. I doubt it will be sufficient to not need the dimroth, and if you have a dimroth there is absolutely no need for a long shell. Make the shell whatever length makes for convenient collection, preferably on a nearby table.

Appreciate the feedback - thanks.

For the absurdly long shell, here was my logic:

-until I get all of the details worked out for my CCVM column, leaving the long length of 2" pipe uncut is better (I'll cut off the 40" piece or whatever once I get ready to try a reflux still).

-I have no idea how much passive air cooling I'll get from such a long length of 2" copper pipe, but whatever it is, it can only reduce coolant water use (and/or temp).

-I think it's going to be as convenient for me to collect off of the ~9' length as a more reasonable shorter length. I have the horizontal space. Slope will be less than 45-degrees, so if that's a problem, I'll have to forget about the 'experiment' and just cut to a shorter length.

It seems as though I can delay the decision of what length to make the 2" Dimroth PC until I learned more, but in terms of minimum length I should plan for if I decide I do need to cut the long pipe, any inputs appreciated...

Never insulate the lid or riser in a pot still.

My thinking was that if you want to minimize reflux and maximize vapor throughput into PC, keeping the pot-still column 'at temp' all the way into the elbow would make sense (first passive cooling / condensation only occurs after passing into PC).

What is the reason insulation of riser in pot-still is a bad idea? With 2" pipe and no stuffing in the column, seems as though clogging/flooding the column should be impossible...)?

[still_stirrin]

...Would appreciate any feedback....

I figure with Dimroth coil inserted into the column as much as possible, the bottom of the 'U' should extend just down to the top of the lower copper section of the CCVM column (triclamp from column to TC T), ~2" below the product port.

It (may) work, but with the CSST looped that far below the vapor outlet, you'll likely get a very slow production rate, although the proof will be high due to the high reflux ratio.

Typically, on CCVM stillheads provision for pulling the condenser coil up to mid-way (at least) in the outlet port as advantageous so that you can manage the reflux ratio better for the product you're trying to produce.

So, with a 18" developed CSST coil, you want an 16-18" tube extension above the branch Tee outlet port. Granted, some of that length will be accounted for with the end branch of the Tee, but certainly not 6". Typically, TC Tees have a one diameter distance for the end branches and the side branch as well, making the Tee 6" long (end to end) and 4" wide for a 2" TC Tee.
ss

[still_stirrin]

What is the reason insulation of riser in pot-still is a bad idea? With 2" pipe and no stuffing in the column, seems as though clogging/flooding the column should be impossible...)?

Is riser insulation "a bad idea?"... well, it is simply not necessary.

With a short riser (you don't need a column on a potstill), the vapor velocity will be reasonably quick, especially during stripping runs where you're just trying to strip the water from the alcohol. Insulation won't significantly affect the speed of the vapor rising in the column, but it would reduce any possibility of passive reflux during the potstill spirit run, which absolutely won't really occur during a stripping run.

On my potstill (a 2" x 12" riser connected to a 2" copper 90 elbow), it is uninsulated and I can get a sense when the boiler is about to produce by "feeling" the riser and elbow, since a thermometer is not necessary, or even ill-advised on a potstill.

However, my boiler is insulated with Reflectex, both sides and top. It helps hold the heat inside and stabilize the vapor production.

Again, whether you insulate the top of your boiler, or not, is very subjective as some here anticipate a little natural condensation (which isn't actually reflux, just condensation, since it won't actually separate the volatiles in the process). I prefer to keep the boiler insulated to conserve heat loss to the surroundings and help stabilize the vapor production rate accordingly. (Sorry, just a retired mechanical design engineer here with years of experience in oil patch production systems).

So, there you go....information with the answer to your "why" question. I hope you learned something along the way.
ss

[zapata]

Yup, that's the engineering why.

For the "because I say so" why, I used to use a fully insulated boiler. My whiskey got better when I switched to one without an insulated top. Others have reported the same, sometimes to the extreme of, it sucked insulated on top, is really good uninsulated. To me it's in the category of I've learned what I've learned experientially, theory be damned. Of course if somebody has learned the opposite they arent wrong since I am neither running their rig nor drinking their product. And of course this is only relevant to spirit runs, not strips.

Regarding the long shell (or maybe even the "short" one you're planning), keep stability in mind. A 9' lever is probably capable of tipping a boiler off the burner rather easily. Many will use a floor stand to support a long condenser, or even a rope/chain from the ceiling. Also remember even if it seems steady at first, the pot will be 1/3 lighter at the end of a run.

[fafrd]

Yup, that's the engineering why.

For the "because I say so" why, I used to use a fully insulated boiler. My whiskey got better when I switched to one without an insulated top. Others have reported the same, sometimes to the extreme of, it sucked insulated on top, is really good uninsulated. To me it's in the category of I've learned what I've learned experientially, theory be damned. Of course if somebody has learned the opposite they arent wrong since I am neither running their rig nor drinking their product. And of course this is only relevant to spirit runs, not strips.

Regarding the long shell (or maybe even the "short" one you're planning), keep stability in mind. A 9' lever is probably capable of tipping a boiler off the burner rather easily. Many will use a floor stand to support a long condenser, or even a rope/chain from the ceiling. Also remember even if it seems steady at first, the pot will be 1/3 lighter at the end of a run.

Thanks for the heads-up. If I do decide to experiment with the absurdly long PC, I will support it with it's own brace.

On insulating the short pot-still column, sounds as though there is consensus that it causes no harm on stripping runs (and may increase efficiency / speed), while for spirit runs, it's worth testing wherher elimiaing/reducing in-column condensation degrades product quality or not (and same with insulating pot lid).

[fafrd]

What is the reason insulation of riser in pot-still is a bad idea? With 2" pipe and no stuffing in the column, seems as though clogging/flooding the column should be impossible...)?

Is riser insulation "a bad idea?"... well, it is simply not necessary.

With a short riser (you don't need a column on a potstill), the vapor velocity will be reasonably quick, especially during stripping runs where you're just trying to strip the water from the alcohol. Insulation won't significantly affect the speed of the vapor rising in the column, but it would reduce any possibility of passive reflux during the potstill spirit run, which absolutely won't really occur during a stripping run.

On my potstill (a 2" x 12" riser connected to a 2" copper 90 elbow), it is uninsulated and I can get a sense when the boiler is about to produce by "feeling" the riser and elbow, since a thermometer is not necessary, or even ill-advised on a potstill.

Wouldn't the same 'hands-on' assessment be possible on the first inches of copper just beyond the stainless elbow?

However, my boiler is insulated with Reflectex, both sides and top. It helps hold the heat inside and stabilize the vapor production.

That's exactly why the idea appealed to me (though probably difficult to insulate sides as I"'m using gas).

Again, whether you insulate the top of your boiler, or not, is very subjective as some here anticipate a little natural condensation (which isn't actually reflux, just condensation, since it won't actually separate the volatiles in the process). I prefer to keep the boiler insulated to conserve heat loss to the surroundings and help stabilize the vapor production rate accordingly. [ (Sorry, just a retired mechanical design engineer here with years of experience in oil patch production systems).

So, there you go....information with the answer to your "why" question. I hope you learned something along the way.
ss

I'm an electrical engineer, rather than mechanical, but I had exactly the same thought. I learned a great deal (confirmed my uninformed intuition), thanks.

[fafrd]

...Would appreciate any feedback....

I figure with Dimroth coil inserted into the column as much as possible, the bottom of the 'U' should extend just down to the top of the lower copper section of the CCVM column (triclamp from column to TC T), ~2" below the product port.

It (may) work, but with the CSST looped that far below the vapor outlet, you'll likely get a very slow production rate, although the proof will be high due to the high reflux ratio.

Typically, on CCVM stillheads provision for pulling the condenser coil up to mid-way (at least) in the outlet port as advantageous so that you can manage the reflux ratio better for the product you're trying to produce.

So, with a 18" developed CSST coil, you want an 16-18" tube extension above the branch Tee outlet port. Granted, some of that length will be accounted for with the end branch of the Tee, but certainly not 6". Typically, TC Tees have a one diameter distance for the end branches and the side branch as well, making the Tee 6" long (end to end) and 4" wide for a 2" TC Tee.
ss

I'll wait until I have my TC T in-hand before making any cuts. I was thinking more or less the same. 2" of TC T extension + 2" of port = 4" + column extension length. So a 12" column extension would translate to 4" + 12" = 16", meaning I could push the bottom of the 'U' 2" into the column top, meaning first coil would just reach the bottom of the port.

And if I need to pull the Dolroth up so that the bottom of the 'U' is just above the port, this would mean pulling out 6" meaning a total of 12" or 67% of the Dilroth RC is still inserted (which is hopefully OK for ~50% of the total vapor hitting the RC once the port is fully opened).

[greggn]

> I'm an electrical engineer


Then you're familiar with the phrase "Paralysis by analysis."

[The Baker]

zapata said, 'Many will use a floor stand to support a long condenser, or even a rope/chain from the ceiling.'

A bracket from a wall with a simple clamp (flat but which opens like a triclamp) is simple and safe. It takes little to prevent tipping if the clamp is high on the riser.

Geoff

[The Baker]

still_stirrin wrote:
However, my boiler is insulated with Reflectex, both sides and top. It helps hold the heat inside and stabilize the vapor production.

fafrd wrote:
That's exactly why the idea appealed to me (though probably difficult to insulate sides as I'm using gas).

I've been using gas and sure, insulation of the boiler is impossible.
However you can improve efficiency and save a worthwhile amount of gas if you place a simple shield around the boiler. Just like a VERY big tin can, really, (with no bottom of course) it keeps a lot of the wind and the cold out and a lot of the heat in.

Geoff

[fafrd]

> I'm an electrical engineer


Then you're familiar with the phrase "Paralysis by analysis."

Analysis Paralysis, for sure...

On the other hand,while awaiting my fittings to arrive, I've got nothing better to do .

[fafrd]

still_stirrin wrote:
However, my boiler is insulated with Reflectex, both sides and top. It helps hold the heat inside and stabilize the vapor production.

fafrd wrote:
That's exactly why the idea appealed to me (though probably difficult to insulate sides as I'm using gas).

I've been using gas and sure, insulation of the boiler is impossible.
However you can improve efficiency and save a worthwhile amount of gas if you place a simple shield around the boiler. Just like a VERY big tin can, really, (with no bottom of course) it keeps a lot of the wind and the cold out and a lot of the heat in.

Geoff

Good suggestion, thanks.

[fafrd]

Question for anyone following this thread and trying to help me with this build:

-what is the longest 2" column I may ever want for a CCVM tower? 20x = 40" or is there any efficiency/performance advantage to go even longer?

[still_stirrin]

With proper packing, a 1 meter or 40” (packed section) will get you azeotropic product provided you have a high enough reflux ratio. You can make it taller if you like, but the benefits of additional packing rapidly diminish. And the cost of the column (and packing) adds cost. Be sure to insulate the column so the vapor is exposed to the most reflux possible within the column.
ss

[still_stirrin]

And here’s an idea...make the column height several shorter sections. That way you can adjust the purity if desired for a lower off still proof for more flavor throughput.

The additional TC clamps and ferrules are an opportune investment for future capability.

An 8”, 16”, and 24” section will give you a potstill riser (8”), and 16”, 24”, 32”, 40”, and 48” columns.
ss

[fafrd]

With proper packing, a 1 meter or 40” (packed section) will get you azeotropic product provided you have a high enough reflux ratio. You can make it taller if you like, but the benefits of additional packing rapidly diminish. And the cost of the column (and packing) adds cost. Be sure to insulate the column so the vapor is exposed to the most reflux possible within the column.
ss

Exactly the sort of input I was hoping for - thanks!

40" it is.

[fafrd]

And here’s an idea...make the column height several shorter sections. That way you can adjust the purity if desired for a lower off still proof for more flavor throughput.

The additional TC clamps and ferrules are an opportune investment for future capability.

An 8”, 16”, and 24” section will give you a potstill riser (8”), and 16”, 24”, 32”, 40”, and 48” columns.
ss

I appreciate the thought but may save that for a future upgrade.

I was planning a 12" potstill riser / CCVM column extender but will wait until I have my TC T to assure my CSST-Dimroth coil will be able to extend down to the botton of the product port (with bends for CSST fittings to be outside of column, bottom of 'U' is 17" out of which lowermost 2-1/2" is the vertical 'U' bend itself, so with a 12" extender, bottom of port will be in tje middle of that vertical 'U' itself, so may need to go with 10" instead of 12"...)

After that, if I cut off my 40" CCWV column, that will leave me with a 70" piece to play around with in the future...

I'm not yet understanding the difference between shorter CCVM/Reflux columns and a Pot still and probably need to actually run my pot still a few time before getting too far ahead of myself.

[fafrd]

Another question for you, still_stirrin:

I know I won't be messing with packing forcsome time, but I want to learn kore about it. I looked forva thread, ran some searches, but have not been able to find a conprehensive iverview of theory anfpd options - is there one?

In reading over several threads, I think I have seen that you pack with marbles like these: https://www.hobbylobby.com/Floral-Weddi ... 4mm/p/3504" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

And did I understand correctly that you use a scrubbie at the bottom of the column to support the marbles and another on top of them under the product port?

So no need to 'build' anything into the CCVM column to support the packing, right? (I've seen a few of those pics where they build in a grating or whatever).

[The Baker]

still_stirrin wrote:
However, my boiler is insulated with Reflectex, both sides and top. It helps hold the heat inside and stabilize the vapor production.

fafrd wrote:
That's exactly why the idea appealed to me (though probably difficult to insulate sides as I'm using gas).

I've been using gas and sure, insulation of the boiler is impossible.
However you can improve efficiency and save a worthwhile amount of gas if you place a simple shield around the boiler. Just like a VERY big tin can, really, (with no bottom of course) it keeps a lot of the wind and the cold out and a lot of the heat in.

Geoff

Good suggestion, thanks.

You know how double glazed windows are better than single??

It just occurred to me that TWO shields with an air space between (not even sealed) might be better than one shield. And for practically no cost!

Geoff

[still_stirrin]

...did I understand correctly that you use a scrubbie at the bottom of the column to support the marbles and another on top of them under the product port?

No, I made a copper “basket” that fits inside the pipe and rests on the rim of the stainless steel ferrule. I used the 12 gage copper wire stripped from some Romex and used a couple of “threads” from some fine stranded copper to “lace” it up. Then, a dab of flux, hit it with the torch, and touch the solder to it. Nice and sturdy to suppot a column of marbles and yet removable for cleaning and storage.

Here:

[fafrd]

...did I understand correctly that you use a scrubbie at the bottom of the column to support the marbles and another on top of them under the product port?

No, I made a copper “basket” that fits inside the pipe and rests on the rim of the stainless steel ferrule. I used the 12 gage copper wire stripped from some Romex and used a couple of “threads” from some fine stranded copper to “lace” it up. Then, a dab of flux, hit it with the torch, and touch the solder to it. Nice and sturdy to suppot a column of marbles and yet removable for cleaning and storage.

Here:

That's brilliant! I was thinking about how I could make some kind of removable 'grating' at the bottom of the column but did not think about using the small 'shelf' created by the rim of the SS Ferrule (partly because I have not soldered any on yet and my default image is that the ferrule goes outside the pipe like a copper fitting).

I've got some scraps of 1/8" perforated SS, so I can either cut out a round piece to rest on the ferrule shelf or make a copper 'basket' like yours. Do you use the basket facing up as shown or facing doen like a real basket?

Also, more for the future than for right now, but I see many reflux builds incorporating a sight glass. Are sight glasses (or sight ports) very useful in reflux mode? Do you have one? Sight glasses sit on top of packing, correct? So the 40" column length we've been talking about for CCVM is not increased by adding a sight glass, right?

[fafrd]

...did I understand correctly that you use a scrubbie at the bottom of the column to support the marbles and another on top of them under the product port?

No, I made a copper “basket” that fits inside the pipe and rests on the rim of the stainless steel ferrule. I used the 12 gage copper wire stripped from some Romex and used a couple of “threads” from some fine stranded copper to “lace” it up. Then, a dab of flux, hit it with the torch, and touch the solder to it. Nice and sturdy to suppot a column of marbles and yet removable for cleaning and storage.

Here:

That's brilliant! I was thinking about how I could make some kind of removable 'grating' at the bottom of the column but did not think about using the small 'shelf' created by the rim of the SS Ferrule (partly because I have not soldered any on yet and my default image is that the ferrule goes outside the pipe like a copper fitting).

I've got some scraps of 1/8" perforated SS, so I can either cut out a round piece to rest on the ferrule shelf or make a copper 'basket' like yours. Do you use the basket facing up as shown or facing doen like a real basket?

Also, more for the future than for right now, but I see many reflux builds incorporating a sight glass. Are sight glasses (or sight ports) very useful in reflux mode? Do you have one? Sight glasses sit on top of packing, correct? So the 40" column length we've been talking about for CCVM is not increased by adding a sight glass, right?

Thought this over a bit more - I've got ferrules on either end of my cooper CCVM column (going into a stainless TC T), so getting a basket like yours out (and in) could be problematic. Does your CCVM column solder into a copper T?

What I can do witha 1/8" SS perforated 'grating' is to cut it into two halves, so the two halves get inserted into the end of the pipe and lay next to each other on the ferrule 'ledge'.

Interested in whether you see any problem with that idea (ie: knocking loose while distilling) and also whether you had any 'trick' for getting your copper basket into place...

[zapata]

weird, I thought I had posted in here yesterday but it seems to not be here... I'll see if I can find it somehow.
anyway, on packing retainer, I use something very similar to what SS posted but lower tech. It's just a "spring" shaped coil of bare copper ground wire. No soldering, just started the first wrap on the outside of the pipe, and freehanded it into a spring a couple inches high. Since it's a spring it compresses to fit through the ferrule and expands to sit on the lip of the ferrule.

Edit to add:
yesterdays post on height seems to be gone. Search bluefish's posts on column height. He is small commercial so has probably done more back to back runs allowing for comparison than most of us. I think he ended up with at least 5' for his 2" column. 40" will allow you to get a good neutral, but his perspective was that taller let him run faster / lower reflux rate. My column is somewhere between 40-50", so I think you would be happy with 40" but your question was if you might want to go taller. You might.

[fafrd]

weird, I thought I had posted in here yesterday but it seems to not be here... I'll see if I can find it somehow.
anyway, on packing retainer, I use something very similar to what SS posted but lower tech. It's just a "spring" shaped coil of bare copper ground wire. No soldering, just started the first wrap on the outside of the pipe, and freehanded it into a spring a couple inches high. Since it's a spring it compresses to fit through the ferrule and expands to sit on the lip of the ferrule.

So it's a 'pyramid spring', right? To get it into the pipe, you 'squeeze-in' the outermost/bottom-most loop of the spring to it passes through the ferrule and then 'speings-back' onto the ledge, right?

And to remove it you use a screwdriver or something to squeeze the end of the spring back in so it passes throughthe ferrule (kind of like a spring-clip), right?

Nice idea (and I sure like the idea of no soldering .

I've got some very thick bare ground wire from a solar install, so that may be the way to go...

Edit to add:
yesterdays post on height seems to be gone. Search bluefish's posts on column height. He is small commercial so has probably done more back to back runs allowing for comparison than most of us. I think he ended up with at least 5' for his 2" column. 40" will allow you to get a good neutral, but his perspective was that taller let him run faster / lower reflux rate. My column is somewhere between 40-50", so I think you would be happy with 40" but your question was if you might want to go taller. You might.

Thanks, I will search out bluefishe's posts.

That's exactly the reason I was asking - I've got 2" pipe to spare, so I'd rather cut as high as I might ever want then to cut smaller and wonder later on whether a bit more length could have been worthwhile...

I suppse I should think about management / stability before going too high. Once you have to stand on a stool or a ladder to nove the RC at the top of the column, that's probably a bridge too far (for a humble novice pot-still distiller like me ).

Are all of these reglux stills we are talking about like bluefish's CCVM, or reflux stills in general?

And for those of you doing reflux in general and CCVM in particular, do you all use sightglasses? I don't believe the height going to sightglasses is contributing to this discussion of 'column height' but just want to check. A sight glass can always be added later, but if it's likely I will want one if I get into reflux distilling and if a sight glass does contribute to column height, that's another aspect to factor in...

[still_stirrin]

...Do you use the basket facing up as shown or facing doen like a real basket?

”down”...like a basket. But it really doesn’t matter...either will work. But, you don’t want it too “tightly wound” because you still need open area for the vapor to rise through even if liquid (condensate) is falling.

...Also, more for the future than for right now, but I see many reflux builds incorporating a sight glass. Are sight glasses (or sight ports) very useful in reflux mode? Do you have one? Sight glasses sit on top of packing, correct? So the 40" column length we've been talking about for CCVM is not increased by adding a sight glass, right?

Sight glass/view ports are great for data collection....but totally unnecessary for running a reflux column. It’s like a thermometer on a potstill...informative, unnecessary, and often confusing.

If you’ve got “money to throw away”, then adding one (or two) to your reflux column can be handy.

A glass at the bottom of the packing will show you the reflux returning to the boiler. This can help you adjust the heat input to balance the vapor take off.

A glass at the top will give you a visual indication of packing flooding, that is - when your heat input is too high for the packing to return lower volatile consitituents to the boiler. It indicates you need to back off the heat slightly.

Personally, I don’t have glass in my reflux column...I simply don’t need it. And when I started distilling (using the reflux column) I would monitor the temperatures with thermocouples. Now, after many runs, I don’t even need the thermocouples...I can tell by the ammeter, production rate (ml/minute), and take off %ABV how I’m progressing through the run.

I’ll probably get “flamed” by those who advocate sight glasses and thermometers, but I (personally) don’t need them. Add them if you’ve got the money and want the “razzle-dazzle”...but they really aren’t necessary to operations, ie - YMMV.

As you’re learning here...you need knowledge, especially if you don’t have experience. Your questions make it obvious that you are NOT experienced, so continue to read (and I suggest “searching and reading” as a priceless tool) before you get hurt. But, don’t fear moving forward with your build and experiment. It’ll teach you the processes and where your concerns really should be.
ss

[fafrd]

...Do you use the basket facing up as shown or facing doen like a real basket?

”down”...like a basket. But it really doesn’t matter...either will work. But, you don’t want it too “tightly wound” because you still need open area for the vapor to rise through even if liquid (condensate) is falling.

Got it - thanks.

...Also, more for the future than for right now, but I see many reflux builds incorporating a sight glass. Are sight glasses (or sight ports) very useful in reflux mode? Do you have one? Sight glasses sit on top of packing, correct? So the 40" column length we've been talking about for CCVM is not increased by adding a sight glass, right?

Sight glass/view ports are great for data collection....but totally unnecessary for running a reflux column. It’s like a thermometer on a potstill...informative, unnecessary, and often confusing.

If you’ve got “money to throw away”, then adding one (or two) to your reflux column can be handy.

A glass at the bottom of the packing will show you the reflux returning to the boiler. This can help you adjust the heat input to balance the vapor take off.

A glass at the top will give you a visual indication of packing flooding, that is - when your heat input is too high for the packing to return lower volatile consitituents to the boiler. It indicates you need to back off the heat slightly.

Personally, I don’t have glass in my reflux column...I simply don’t need it. And when I started distilling (using the reflux column) I would monitor the temperatures with thermocouples. Now, after many runs, I don’t even need the thermocouples...I can tell by the ammeter, production rate (ml/minute), and take off %ABV how I’m progressing through the run.

I’ll probably get “flamed” by those who advocate sight glasses and thermometers, but I (personally) don’t need them. Add them if you’ve got the money and want the “razzle-dazzle”...but they really aren’t necessary to operations, ie - YMMV.

This is also very clear and I appreciate the advice. Sight glasses can always be added at any time, so I'm going to hope when I get into reflux, I can manage without them (or have $$$s to burn on show and tell ).

I've got several thermocouples from beer brewing and my plan was to use at least one to monitor PC coolant return temps when I start using my pot still. Especially if I've got a 2" PC 'pathway' (with CSST Dimroth coil inserted into the end), monitoring coolant return temp is the best way to avoid getting into trouble (as long as return temps are sufficiently low, PC is keeping up with boiler).

As you’re learning here...you need knowledge, especially if you don’t have experience. Your questions make it obvious that you are NOT experienced, so continue to read (and I suggest “searching and reading” as a priceless tool) before you get hurt. But, don’t fear moving forward with your build and experiment. It’ll teach you the processes and where your concerns really should be.
ss

Believe me, I appreciate the input and the advice.

I've used the search function quite a bit but the signal-to-noise can be quite low. That's why pointers and/or hints from experienced members such as yourself are so valuable.

Even though it's not my immediate priority, I've been trying to learn more about reglux distilling, packing and 'plates' - have not found a concise turorial yet. Found Bluefish's thread and it was enormously helpful, butvsince it was not on the first page of threads within the 'Research' Forum, I would never ave found it without the hin from zapatta.

I feel like I know understand enough to use a pot-still in a safe/innefficient manner (keeping temps and throughput way below critcal levels).

That's really my primary priority and hopefully means I can finish my pot-still and try my first stripping runs by late July /early August.

But I like to read-ahead, so if I can understand enough about reflux-distilling / CCVM to make design choices that leave me the flexibility to experiment with that if/when the time comes, that's attractive.

Honestly, the thing I'm struggling with most right now is CCST choices for a 2" Dimroth PC. The 48" piece of 5/8" OD CSST I have should allow me to build my first PC. Length of 2" PC shell still TBD, but whether 40", 70", or even a full 9', I should have a ~17" of twisted U Dimroth inserted into the output and this should be sufficent to condense for my first runs (which will hopefully teach me more so I can decide whether I want to use 5/8" OD CSST or 1/2" OD CSST or 3/8" OD CSST for my RC when the time comes).

I still have a couple questions about a CSST-Dimroth PC:

-should I plan to add SS scrubbers to the coil?

-the CSST came with assembled compression fittings but without washers:
-should I use these fittings or cut them off?
-if using them, do they need washers (and if so, PTFE washers, right?)?


Being safe is a far higher priority to me than either proof or speed, so I'd appreciate feedback as to whether a relatively slow/long stripping run monitoring coolant return temps is a good 'safe' plan for dipping my toes into the rabbit-hole...

[zapata]

And to remove it you use a screwdriver or something to squeeze the end of the spring back in so it passes throughthe ferrule (kind of like a spring-clip), right?

Theoretically, although I dont think I've ever removed it. I take packing out the top when I need to.

I'm currently using a combination of copper mesh and lava rock. The mesh requires fishing out, but the rock just pours out.

And pretty much everything I've said here applies to reflux stills in general as I do not have a CCVM. I have run valved VM (as well as LM, and hybrid stills) for years though, and other than moving a coil vs moving a valve handle they run the same.

I have never seen the value in sight glasses myself on anything other than a plated still. Everything they can tell you can be "seen" in other ways. They look cool though. To be fair though, I've never had one, maybe they are amazing?

I do use and find lots of value in thermometers on reflux stills though. If I had to choose only one it would be 1/4 to 1/3 down from the top of the packing. This let's me react to what is happening there, before it reaches my takeoff.

I find a boiler therm (in liquid or headspace) useful but not necessary on any still. At a glance you can verify heatup, ABV in boiler, and thus how far into the run you are. Also very handy for verifying power applied to boiler by measuring change over time during heatup. The last was absolutely essential for me to make any sense of reflux on a gas burner, though ultimately going electric did more for my reflux game than anything else.

You've mentioned a few times no good concise information. This is a blessing. Read widely. Any concise article is woefully inadequate, and full of the author's opinion portrayed as fact. We know it can be frustrating, but the info is here. Browse till your fingers bleed, and read till your eyes bleed.

[fafrd]

And to remove it you use a screwdriver or something to squeeze the end of the spring back in so it passes throughthe ferrule (kind of like a spring-clip), right?

Theoretically, although I dont think I've ever removed it. I take packing out the top when I need to.

I'm currently using a combination of copper mesh and lava rock. The mesh requires fishing out, but the rock just pours out.

And pretty much everything I've said here applies to reflux stills in general as I do not have a CCVM. I have run valved VM (as well as LM, and hybrid stills) for years though, and other than moving a coil vs moving a valve handle they run the same.

I have never seen the value in sight glasses myself on anything other than a plated still. Everything they can tell you can be "seen" in other ways. They look cool though. To be fair though, I've never had one, maybe they are amazing?

Beer brewers use sight glasses to harvest yeast from a connical fermenter. If I ever get a connical fermenter, I'll be sure to get a 2" sightglass so I can play around with the full multimedia experience the next time I run my reflux still .

[quote="zapata]
I do use and find lots of value in thermometers on reflux stills though. If I had to choose only one it would be 1/4 to 1/3 down from the top of the packing. This let's me react to what is happening there, before it reaches my takeoff.

I find a boiler therm (in liquid or headspace) useful but not necessary on any still. At a glance you can verify heatup, ABV in boiler, and thus how far into the run you are. Also very handy for verifying power applied to boiler by measuring change over time during heatup. The last was absolutely essential for me to make any sense of reflux on a gas burner, though ultimately going electric did more for my reflux game than anything else.[/quote]

At some point in the future I may be picking your brain to understand why electric was so much better for reflux than gas (much more precise control of energy input?) but for now I'll just say that, with thermocouples, adding thermometers is a pretty straightforward matter of drilling a hole and soldering in a thermowell, so pretty easy to add at anytime.

When I get around to trying reflux mode, I may well follow your lead and add several thermowells to learn/understand (even if decide they are unnecessary once I'm more experienced).

For now, assuming you've got any experience with pot-stills, what do you think of my plan to monitor PC coolant return temps (electrically, PC shell can be monitored by hand). Is that the most useful spot for a first-timer to monitor temps during a stripping run or would another location be more useful?

You've mentioned a few times no good concise information. This is a blessing. Read widely. Any concise article is woefully inadequate, and full of the author's opinion portrayed as fact. We know it can be frustrating, but the info is here. Browse till your fingers bleed, and read till your eyes bleed.

I've been doing enough reading and posting that if I posted anything sounding like a complaint, it was unintended. The site is great. The community is great. The vast amount of know-how and information is great (and overwhelming).

My point was not so much that 'there is no good concise information' as much as the fact that while there are many useful primers / guides / indexes to various subjects / useful threads, there are some areas that are not as well 'indexed' and very difficult to find without a pointer / reference from one of the 'pros' like yourself.

Sticky threads are great for subjects any newbie will eventually be interested in, but there are some subjects not covered by stickys (at least that I could find).

Not a big deal, I'll keep searching and asking when I get frustrated. The pointer to blufish's thread on column height experiments was greatly appreciated.

I'll need to learn a great deal more about reflux-mode and packing before I'll be ready to try my CCVM still. Any pointers greatly appreciated (and thanks again for all the help you have so generously offered up to now).

[zapata]

At the bottom of each page is a "bookmark topic" button. Why dont you bookmark the topics you have found most helpful / least referenced both so far and as you learn more? At some point you'll no longer be a brand new beginner, but your bookmarked threads could be a good reference to share. It's kind of a hard thing for experienced members to do and your fresh eyes and willingness to research could help the next round of beginners.

[Cu29er]

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I read your post and then skimmed the other responses but here are some things to consider:

-Keep the still simple. Make a standard 'pot still' and compare running your material through once vs twice. Get an idea how it all works. There are a lot of variables to sort out. A three foot column and two to three foot chiller will work.
-Boka style is needed to get very high % proof out, however they are more difficult to run (like driving your car with one foot on the gas and the other on the brake).
-Your kitchen or stilling location will determine your still size. If you are doing it on a conventional kitchen stove you may have cabinets above that restrict how tall your column gets.
-Packed columns can be dangerous. If your pot pukes or starts to while running and you don't notice it could plug your column then you're over there wondering why the column temp isn't going up and the lid clamps crack open spraying you with sticky scaling fluid. Six weeks and scars. Start with an open column and plan for two runs to boost the proof.
-Get an Ikea or similar meat thermometer and make a probe point at the top of your column before the condenser, you can set 170F alarm to know when it's heated up and watch the fore shots, set other alarms to know where you might want to take a split or to shut it off at say 210F as you know it's out of proof.
-Column height is more important than the condenser length. If you make the condenser the same length or nearly so as the column you should be ok. A taller column gets you higher proof. If too tall you hit the kitchen ceiling.
-install a needle valve to control the cooling water flow rate, the sink faucet handle is too crude.

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