Refractometer

[Anyhowe]

Ok, the novice forum, I did try a couple searches, so please don’t spank me too bad if this is found somewhere.

There is a fair amount of reading about parrots and the smearing issues, there is even some descent talk about looking, touching, tasting and burning to test the ABV. Why not use an alcohol refractometer and get the exact reading in about 5 seconds start to finish. Inquiring minds...

Thanks for making me a % smarter today.

[fizzix]

Because one reason is ABV won't tell you the whole story on cuts.
Fores, heads, hearts and tails don't come out as W, X, Y & Z alcohol levels.

[6 Row Joe]

Because one reason is ABV won't tell you the whole story on cuts.
Fores, heads, hearts and tails don't come out as W, X, Y & Z alcohol levels.

Where's my "agree button"

[Anyhowe]

Because one reason is ABV won't tell you the whole story on cuts.
Fores, heads, hearts and tails don't come out as W, X, Y & Z alcohol levels.

Thanks , but that was not the question. Sorry to be confusing. This question was related to why all of the creative ways to check for ABV, for those who choose to. Many creative, inaccurate and subjective choices abound, yet I can’t find any on the accurate, instant real time solution. Just curious. Thanks.

This one goes to 80%. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Expat]

What you'd need is a gas chromatography / mass spec attachment for your still. Then you could know from moment to moment the exact chemical composition of your distillate. Last time I looked, they run about $20k on the used market if you can find a good one.

[Anyhowe]

What you'd need is a gas chromatography / mass spec attachment for your still. Then you could know from moment to moment the exact chemical composition of your distillate. Last time I looked, they run about $20k on the used market if you can find a good one.

Or this for $25. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow.

Literally place it under 1 drip and you have the accurate %.

[Fiddleford]

We arn't looking for abv we are looking for how it tastes, smells, and feels
There are some on here who use refractometers but they can't tell you if your infecting your hearts with tails only the proof

[Expat]

As Fizzix and Fiddleford said, with that you only get the basic ABV and not composition.

Why lots of options? Depending on what you want to do, a bit of smearing is easier than repeatedly checking with a sample with a refractometer.

The mass spec is the ultimate option.... If a tad unobtainable.

[6 Row Joe]

Literally place it under 1 drip and you have the accurate %.

I bought one of those and it seemed accurate for beginning mash gravity but when ferment was done it was miles off. I don't trust it and I use my hydrometers. I can put the test tube right under the spout and monitor abv as it comes out. I could care less what the number is until it's time to dilute it to 75 proof. I already know what's in the jar.

[Anyhowe]

Literally place it under 1 drip and you have the accurate %.

I bought one of those and it seemed accurate for beginning mash gravity but when ferment was done it was miles off. I don't trust it and I use my hydrometers. I can put the test tube right under the spout and monitor abv as it comes out. I could care less what the number is until it's time to dilute it to 75 proof. I already know what's in the jar.

Don’t know for sure what you used but the refractometer for specific gravity of a mashbwill not work accusatly when alcohol is present. The refractometer shown is designed for alcohol.

[Anyhowe]

@expat thanks for taking the time to respond.

I just thought if I was going to do it, I would do it accurately. There is no composition with parrots and hydrometers either. And a hydrometer is affected by temperature. But as you say ABV is not the be all and end all. But for me given the choice I will take easy accuracy over clumsy inaccuracy every day. Lol I don’t understand your comments about refractometers, drip, read, repeat when ever.

Big WOW on the smearing comments. I am new but this seems 180 degrees contrary to the never ending threads on the importance of accurate cuts. Why would I ever choose smearing over not smearing?? I guess i do have a LOT to learn.

Thanks again everyone.

[Fiddleford]

Smearing isnt a bad thing
If you'r really worried about it only use a parrot on a stripping run
Don't use it on the spirit run
It sounds like your mistaking quality for purity
What is your goal to make Right Now
Gin, Vodka, Whiskey, Rum, Brandy?
Have you ran a still yet

[Anyhowe]

Smearing isnt a bad thing
If you'r really worried about it only use a parrot on a stripping run
Don't use it on the spirit run
It sounds like your mistaking quality for purity
What is your goal to make Right Now
Gin, Vodka, Whiskey, Rum, Brandy?
Have you ran a still yet

Wow this is escalating fast. Right now I am not mistaking anything lol. I just wondered why there is little discussion about what appears to be an inexpensive and simple piece of technology that is simple to use and greatly improves accuracy and timelyness of the information. Nothing more, nothing less. Maybe it’s a horribly stupid idea idk.

[Expat]

I don't think anyone has escalated, they simply want to know what your goal is. Which is a logical request when trying to answer your question.

I think the gap in your understanding is this.

If you're doing a stripping run and need to know the proof, it's easier to use a parrot and smearing doesn't matter. It's better because you can see in real time what's happening. No testing.

If you're doing a spirit run, you don't care what the ABV is, cuts are made by taste and feel. You could use a hydrometer or a refractometer for proofing, no difference.

Back to your original comment, burning isnt an accurate measure of proof only an indicator of minimum proof. And not particularly practical.

[Fiddleford]

I don't think anyone has escalated, they simply want to know what your goal is. Which is a logical request when trying to answer your question.

I think the gap in your understanding is this.

If you're doing a stripping run and need to know the proof, it's easier to use a parrot and smearing doesn't matter. It's better because you can see in real time what's happening. No testing.

If you're doing a spirit run, you don't care what the ABV is, cuts are made by taste and feel. You could use a hydrometer or a refractometer for proofing, no difference.

Back to your original comment, burning isnt an accurate measure of proof only an indicator of minimum proof. And not particularly practical.

+1

[Anyhowe]

I don't think anyone has escalated, they simply want to know what your goal is. Which is a logical request when trying to answer your question.

I think the gap in your understanding is this.

If you're doing a stripping run and need to know the proof, it's easier to use a parrot and smearing doesn't matter. It's better because you can see in real time what's happening. No testing.

If you're doing a spirit run, you don't care what the ABV is, cuts are made by taste and feel. You could use a hydrometer or a refractometer for proofing, no difference.

Back to your original comment, burning isnt an accurate measure of proof only an indicator of minimum proof. And not particularly practical.

That makes complete sense, thank you. (Although I personally find peeking into my refract easier than using the my parrot. maybe because I have not relied on hydrometer for years YMMV)

Drifting the topic a bit With respect to ABV are your thoughts the same for a single pot run as they are for a spirit run? Thanks again.

[fizzix]

If I understand you correctly... I ignore ABV on the strip and just get rid of fores and late, late nasty tails.

[Expat]

Drifting the topic a bit With respect to ABV are your thoughts the same for a single pot run as they are for a spirit run? Thanks again.

Yes, for a single run on a pot still it is the same procedure as a spirit run. No ABV check required, use your sense of taste and smell to determine where the cuts should be.

[bilgriss]

Expat's explanation is solid.

The only time it's absolutely important and adds value to what you are doing to measure alcohol percentage is when proofing for aging, and again for a final product bottline.

Having said that, I enjoy measuring things more frequently for my own understanding and entertainment value...sometimes. An alcoholometer floating in a parrot during a stripping run is perfect and does so in real-time. But your alcohol refractometer would do the same for a moment in time with respect to a given sample. Refractometers tend to be slightly less accurate, but hey, the proof is literally dropping while you are measuring a past moment, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[Desvio]

Expat's explanation is solid.

The only time it's absolutely important and adds value to what you are doing to measure alcohol percentage is when proofing for aging, and again for a final product bottline.

This is pretty much the only use for an alcohol refractometer! They are not 100% accurate but close enough, they are also a little temperamental with temperature, and if there are any resudual sugars in your product (using before distillation) accuracy is in the trash.

[6 Row Joe]

Literally place it under 1 drip and you have the accurate %.

I bought one of those and it seemed accurate for beginning mash gravity but when ferment was done it was miles off. I don't trust it and I use my hydrometers. I can put the test tube right under the spout and monitor abv as it comes out. I could care less what the number is until it's time to dilute it to 75 proof. I already know what's in the jar.

Don’t know for sure what you used but the refractometer for specific gravity of a mashbwill not work accusatly when alcohol is present. The refractometer shown is designed for alcohol.

Yep. The one you posted is for alcohol. The one I mentioned was for alcohol as well just a lower percentage. (mash start and end alcohol to check ABV). I just ordered one of those you posted. I will check it for accuracy which really isn't your topic of discussion. Taste and smell is what you need to go by as far as cuts. Like I mentioned, I check and log the ABV and the temp but just for fun and to know what is in the jar. The runs that I didn't monitor still came out just fine.

[MtRainier]

I bought one of those alcohol refractometers you posted. I use one regularly for my new saltwater mixed up for my reef tank and it works great.

This one doesn't work well. It was cheaply made, didn't seem to hold a calibration, didn't have a well defined shadow line when reading, and has very small minor tics between even fairly different alcohol levels. If you're looking at still output at high ABV it will all look the same as far as I could tell. As much as I wanted it to work well. It just didn't.

It's much easier and faster and much more accurate to use a floating hydrometer.

[6 Row Joe]

I bought one of those alcohol refractometers you posted. I use one regularly for my new saltwater mixed up for my reef tank and it works great.

This one doesn't work well. It was cheaply made, didn't seem to hold a calibration, didn't have a well defined shadow line when reading, and has very small minor tics between even fairly different alcohol levels. If you're looking at still output at high ABV it will all look the same as far as I could tell. As much as I wanted it to work well. It just didn't.

It's much easier and faster and much more accurate to use a floating hydrometer.

X2 I will see when I get mine. I have wasted $15 on more foolish things. LOL

[Tony1964]

Just dipping in here on the use of a refractometer, and i mean the brix version, i started off using brix as the meassurment for start of fermentation, i generally set the SG to brix 20, that is 1.083, and when I first started this journey it did take research to get my head around why I never ended up at brix 0. And, would always end up as an FG of brix 6.

Brix for fermentation accurate at start and end, along with CO2 stopped and a check on PH.

Brix refractometer I find accurate for my start fermentation which is great for me, back on topic, the alcohol abv refractometer I have has proven to be accurate ish at high abv but when cutting to say 40 abv could be as much as 5% out, when compared to my hydrometer.

You take a view, I use a parrot with a hydrometer to give me on the run indications, but, I always taste and feel the product at the input side of the parrot to minimise smearing effects on my taste buds.

On that subject of mouth feel, I find that as I approach the tails I get tingling at the sides of my tongue that gradually migrated to the center of my tongue as well as the sides. Just something that I find very noticeable.

Anyway, my practice take on it.

Cheers

Tony

[6 Row Joe]

I bought one of those alcohol refractometers you posted. I use one regularly for my new saltwater mixed up for my reef tank and it works great.

This one doesn't work well. It was cheaply made, didn't seem to hold a calibration, didn't have a well defined shadow line when reading, and has very small minor tics between even fairly different alcohol levels. If you're looking at still output at high ABV it will all look the same as far as I could tell. As much as I wanted it to work well. It just didn't.

It's much easier and faster and much more accurate to use a floating hydrometer.

X2 I will see when I get mine. I have wasted $15 on more foolish things. LOL

I just got my refractometer in yesterday. I just tested it against 2 different hydrometers and it is spot on. It will be nice to test with a couple drops instead of filling a test jar up and using a hydrometer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332755249725" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[WIski]

I have both a parrot and refrac. Love them both for different reasons which have all been mentioned here. One thing that seems to be washed over is the fact that most of us will have a hard time keeping the distillate at 60'F so insinuating a parrot reads real time is a little misleading. Calculations will need to be done to determine real ABV. I like the parrot because it tells me when to pay closer attention. YMMV

[Swedish Pride]

I have the alcohol refract.
it's handy when you do cuts as "a spoon of water /spoon of booze" isn't very accurate.
so for watering down you sample to 40% or 30% or at whatever % you like to sample at it's handy.
With my cheapo one you have to decide where you want it to be accurate, if I calibrate it at 80% it's not accurate at 40% and vise versa.

[NZChris]

If you have a look at the refractive index of alcohol water mixes you will see that it curves back down at high abvs, which could account for why calibrating yours at 80% isn't very successful.