Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
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- raketemensch
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Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
I've got a Groen steam kettle here that is intended for 3-phase. They list a kit for converting it to single phase, and it basically just has a "larger terminal block" to handle the increased single power source.
I can't seem to find the kit anywhere, and Groen's not been helpful about it.
Has anyone else converted one of these before? Is there a better DIY way to handle the larger terminal block?
The lid is with my welder right now, adding a 4" ferrule to it :]
I also need to work out how to seal the lid. I'm thinking that several laps of PTFE tape around the rim will do it.
I can't seem to find the kit anywhere, and Groen's not been helpful about it.
Has anyone else converted one of these before? Is there a better DIY way to handle the larger terminal block?
The lid is with my welder right now, adding a 4" ferrule to it :]
I also need to work out how to seal the lid. I'm thinking that several laps of PTFE tape around the rim will do it.
- shadylane
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
What's the make and model of the steam kettle.
What's the voltage and watts of the heaters
What voltage are your wanting to run it on.
What's the voltage and watts of the heaters
What voltage are your wanting to run it on.
Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
and does it have a mixing motor @3 phase?
(you want a mixer, get the welder to put another flange on the lid, at a bit of an angle to clear)
(you want a mixer, get the welder to put another flange on the lid, at a bit of an angle to clear)
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now i drink for evil.
now i drink for evil.
- shadylane
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
By chance, would it be 1 of these
Be for warned, the download was slow
http://www.unifiedbrands.net/media/1105 ... f_0711.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Be for warned, the download was slow
http://www.unifiedbrands.net/media/1105 ... f_0711.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
- rubelstrudel
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
The dokument Shadylane linked to tells how to do a conversion on page 18. This should work for any 3 to 1 phase conversion. It is not really rocket science since all you do is patch all heaters in parallell.
All you have to do is move X1 to L1, and X2 to L2. Then feed your 1 phase power through L1/L2.
You will need a much bigger breaker though, to run this full blast.
All you have to do is move X1 to L1, and X2 to L2. Then feed your 1 phase power through L1/L2.
You will need a much bigger breaker though, to run this full blast.
Always impatient. But learning.
- raketemensch
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
It is indeed, good call.shadylane wrote:By chance, would it be 1 of these
Be for warned, the download was slow
http://www.unifiedbrands.net/media/1105 ... f_0711.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Any idea how big the breaker would need to be? That diagram is great, but it also mentions the kit (170960) that I've been unable to find...rubelstrudel wrote:The dokument Shadylane linked to tells how to do a conversion on page 18. This should work for any 3 to 1 phase conversion. It is not really rocket science since all you do is patch all heaters in parallell.
All you have to do is move X1 to L1, and X2 to L2. Then feed your 1 phase power through L1/L2.
You will need a much bigger breaker though, to run this full blast.
Thanks to everyone for jumping in, this place is just incredible.
- shadylane
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
That info is on page 6 and depends on how big the kettle israketemensch wrote:
Any idea how big the breaker would need to be? That diagram is great, but it also mentions the kit (170960) that I've been unable to find...
You can figure out how many gallons the steam kettle is by using the dimensions on page 5
The kit is nothing more than a larger terminal strip need because the unit pulls more current on single phase.
- raketemensch
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
Are you running yours without the kit?shadylane wrote:That info is on page 6 and depends on how big the kettle israketemensch wrote:
Any idea how big the breaker would need to be? That diagram is great, but it also mentions the kit (170960) that I've been unable to find...
You can figure out how many gallons the steam kettle is by using the dimensions on page 5
The kit is nothing more than a larger terminal strip need because the unit pulls more current on single phase.
Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
Was looking into this on the weekend and found this dude, great video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UcDM3hm0XM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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- shadylane
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
My steam kettle is manufactured by Shadylane's Junkpileraketemensch wrote:Are you running yours without the kit?shadylane wrote:That info is on page 6 and depends on how big the kettle israketemensch wrote:
Any idea how big the breaker would need to be? That diagram is great, but it also mentions the kit (170960) that I've been unable to find...
You can figure out how many gallons the steam kettle is by using the dimensions on page 5
The kit is nothing more than a larger terminal strip need because the unit pulls more current on single phase.
- shadylane
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
Thanks for the link Googegooge wrote:Was looking into this on the weekend and found this dude, great video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UcDM3hm0XM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Anymore it's easier to buy a cheap VFD "variable frequency drive"
Having said that, I've got an old 3phase motor that's used as a rotary phase converter.
The motor starts on single phase with a pull rope, like a lawn mower
Once it's spinning, Ya close your eyes and flip the switch.
- rubelstrudel
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
If you do not have any idea about what the effect of each heater is, then measure the resistance over a single heating element with a mulitmeter.
If the resistance is, say 10 Ohm, then you can calculate the effect by applying basic electricity laws:
U= R * I
and
P = U * I
=>
P = U^2 / R
So with 220V the heater will draw 22A and produce 4840W
With three of those in parallell you'd need a 66A breaker. Thats a BIG one.
Three phase is different. I'll let the guys who understand it work that out.
If the resistance is, say 10 Ohm, then you can calculate the effect by applying basic electricity laws:
U= R * I
and
P = U * I
=>
P = U^2 / R
So with 220V the heater will draw 22A and produce 4840W
With three of those in parallell you'd need a 66A breaker. Thats a BIG one.
Three phase is different. I'll let the guys who understand it work that out.
Always impatient. But learning.
- raketemensch
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Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
Meh, they want >$100 for the kit.shadylane wrote:That info is on page 6 and depends on how big the kettle israketemensch wrote:
Any idea how big the breaker would need to be? That diagram is great, but it also mentions the kit (170960) that I've been unable to find...
You can figure out how many gallons the steam kettle is by using the dimensions on page 5
The kit is nothing more than a larger terminal strip need because the unit pulls more current on single phase.
I guess I need to figure out how big it needs to be, and find a stand-alone one that can handle the power.
I’m getting the feeling this thing is going to brownout my neighborhood...
Oh, and HDNB, you’re totally right, I should’ve had a mixer port installed. Bleh.
Edit: 101 amps! Yikes!
- shadylane
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
Here's a cheaper terminal strip that might work https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Positions ... tion&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Also, If you don't need full power, it would be easy to not connect one or more of the heaters
Also, If you don't need full power, it would be easy to not connect one or more of the heaters
- raketemensch
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
Thanks, I managed to pick up something similar on eBay that can handle the load. I'm going to sort out disabling a couple of the elements today, and hopefully get it wired up.shadylane wrote:Here's a cheaper terminal strip that might work https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Positions ... tion&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Also, If you don't need full power, it would be easy to not connect one or more of the heaters
The lid is done, and I can pick it up this week. That leaves picking up some distilled water to fill it with, and getting a new breaker to run it. It's on a sub-panel, so I'll have to do some math to figure out how many amps I even have available. A good chunk of the kitchen runs on that panel too, so....
Oh yeah, how did you seal your lid? I was thinking about picking up some PTFE tubing and slitting it, then running it around the rim as a gasket. With the flute on top it should be enough weight to seal it down, but I might add some extra time weight as well, since it doesn't clamp.
- shadylane
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
My homemade rig uses a water seal on the lid.
It works good, but can't hold back more than 3" of WC pressure.
It works good, but can't hold back more than 3" of WC pressure.
- raketemensch
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
So shady, if you see this... a question.
I always thought that adding a stirrer to these kettles was kind of a convenience for mashing and maybe efficiency during a run, but it hit me the other day — is it a requirement to avoid scorching while distilling on the grain?
I always thought that adding a stirrer to these kettles was kind of a convenience for mashing and maybe efficiency during a run, but it hit me the other day — is it a requirement to avoid scorching while distilling on the grain?
- shadylane
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Re: Anyone ever convert a 3-phase steam kettle to single?
I'm not sure if scorching would be much of a problem with a steam kettle.
Don't forget, stirring also cuts down on smearing
Don't forget, stirring also cuts down on smearing