Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

[GCB3]

It’s nice to be able to report a success! I stripped the above 3 batches. The primary difference was that the first two strips had a slight sweet aroma and taste. The “treated” strip had a lot more odor. Similar to that tails smell you get from a rum strip if you go deep. I think I can clean it out on the spirit run. All three of these batches were made with BW’s original recipe.

I decided to do one more batch using BW’s revised recipe. I boiled the tap water to remove CL. While shooting for 1.07 SG, I ended up at 1.079 @ 60*F. I added 6 oyster shells, sugar, lemon, and TP to the water, insulated the barrel and put my aquarium heater on at 90*F. When the fermenter reached the low 90’s, I pitched 6 Oz of Red Star Bakers Yeast and 1/3 tsp of epsom salt. It took off like a mo-fo. That was Sunday night.

Monday night it was down to 1.042, Tuesday night it was 1.018, just now it’s 0.998 @ 60*F. It still has small surface activity, but, there isn’t hardly any detectable sweetness. That’s one hell of a change from the almost 30 day adventure before! I’m calling it done, uplugged the heater and I’ll strip it as soon as it settles a little.

My conclusion from all this scientific study is: use BW’s revised recipe!

[FizzRolyat]

Hey all, a 2 year user of the Birdwatcher recipe and loving it. I'm using turbo clear to drop the yeast and paste our of the mash but the results vary from a stellar crystal clear mash to really cloudy and have tried many methods to get it clear consistently without success so thought I would ask here if anyone has had/solved the problem.

I recently talked to one of the guys who sells the turbo clear saying if I used raw sugar like I do that the yeast may not be using all of it up which may inhibit the separation process, is this true?

My meter seems to be telling me that it is reaching full consumption of the sugar more or less.....

No need for the turbo clear. I use an old refridgerator that still works (doesn't matter if the fridge thermos is shot), with an Inkbird temp controller on the outside, and a heatbelt to the heat output. Ferment inside the fridge (beer style) and when fermentation finished, cold crash to 1-2 celcius for a couple of days. Drops out the yeast easily. No issues with cloudly distillate and avoids more chemicals in your wash/distillate.

[FizzRolyat]

Put down a BW on the weekend. Usual recipe but had no lemons on hand. So substituted with a good few splashes of Apple Cider Vinegar (homemade from a Braggs mother). Has taken off a treat. An option when you only have non-perishable ingredients.

[Budapest8485]

I don't like tomato paste, but I like cancer even less. I've been making the equivalent of a sugar wash for many years using citrus,water, tannin, dap, and sugar. It's clean, a crowd pleaser, and little to no hangover if you cross the line on indulgence. Lime wine, it's great all summer long.

So, the tomato paste is offensive to me, but I'd really like to get away from the dap nutrient which is linked to cancer by some accounts. My understanding is fruit peels/stems, pulp are what methanol is made from. Obviously tomato paste has this fibrous matter that can create the same thing. With a sugar wash there's little to no methanol...right? So, if I were to use the tomato paste, I would have to discard the foreshots in the proper ratio, correct?

I'm in the process of finishing a bokabob reflux column. The purest vodka possible is my goal...I'll use the tomato paste, but I'd rather use a different source of nutrient. Methanol and personal aversion are my basis for wanting a tweak this a bit.

[thecroweater]

Yes cuts are cuts, you shouldn't be carrying over any tomato flavour if ran properly. I haven't heard of DAP producing anything that causes cancer, products that contain urea may carry a risk particularly in the wrong still but I'm yet to read similar reports from DAP. That said on a small home scale tomato paste is often a cheaper easier option.
I know you will get folks saying TPW don't make a clean neutral spirit. Now if ya were to reply oh so you don't know how to successfully run a reflux still to produce a neutral then that would likely start a pissing match even though that statement would be entirely accurate

[Saltbush Bill]

I haven't heard of DAP producing anything that causes cancer, products that contain urea may carry a risk

Same here , never heard of it being a problem with DAP..."Di-Ammonium Phosphate"
Urea on the other hand has banned as a yeast nutrient in quite a few countries as far as I am aware.

[Doctor Evil]

It’s nice to be able to report a success!

It’s nice to read of your success!
I’ve been making Birdwatcher’s for nearly 4 years, up to about 60-something batches now. I used to have trouble with consistency despite being careful with measurements and using temperature control - some washes would finish nice and dry - others would get stuck at 1.02 or so. I did eventually figure out the pH was dropping too low and the yeast were giving up. Introduced some chicken egg shell into my recipe (8g in a 20-litre wash) and never had a problem since.
I’m a slow learner but I do wonder how many other forum members might struggle because it’s not clear to them how important consistent pH is and how easily that is achieved with the buffering action of a little added calcium.
My variation of Birdwatcher’s, FWIW

2.5kg White Sugar
2.0kg Raw Sugar
1tsp Citric Acid
100g Trub (from a previous wash)
100g Tomato Paste
7g Eggshell
Water to 20 litres
30g Yeast @ 30 C

Not that it worries me but I don’t get the speed most others speak of, though. From SG of 1.082 it takes 10 to 12 days to finish at 1.000 or 0.998. Yeast is Lowan’s Instant Dried Bakers’ type - Chinese yeast, packed in Australia, I’ve just discovered (like I said, slow learner!)

[Undies]

Hey Doc, they sound like great addidtions to the original recipe. Could you explain a few points?
How do you prepare the egg shells? Just crack and plop, or is there more to it?
Why use a portion of raw sugar over all white sugar?

[GCB3]

Hi Dr. Yeah, I can’t believe how many times I had to read these posts for things to sink in! Hopefully we both now can make a consistent BW. After cutting, I am really pleased with how neutral this is. It’s about time for another run at OEG to hopefully build some confidence.

I have been using Red Star Bakers Yeast and it really works well around 85-90*F. It’s inexpensive and readily available in the USA. Take care.

[Doctor Evil]

Could you explain a few points?

Definitely don’t just crack and plop, Undies! I wash the eggshells then let them air dry for some days. I then grind them for a few seconds in an old coffee grinder to a size of 2-3mm. I don’t know if the grinding is necessary but what IS important is to sterilise the shell before adding it to the wash. I add it to the 100g of trub in a jug then add maybe 800mL of boiling water, stir, then add to the wash.
The raw sugar is a recent change. I was just using 4.5kg white sugar. I just love the smell of it to be honest, and maybe there’s something extra there for the yeasties. Probably my imagination but I think using it has reduced the “sugar bite” in my finished product, too.

[Undies]

Definitely don’t just crack and plop, Undies!

Ha! Thanks. I was about to throw in a dozen fresh eggs (still in shopping bag) into my wash. Lucky!

I might give raw sugar a go. I love the smell over white sugar also.

[Budapest8485]

I made a batch in a fast ferment conical fermenter that's struggling. I've been making wine for a long time and this has never happened to me. Smells like bread dough. I always used wine yeast before, never bread yeast. I'm not sure what the issue it. SG hasn't dropped after 5 days.

[fizzix]

I made a batch in a fast ferment conical fermenter that's struggling. I've been making wine for a long time and this has never happened to me. Smells like bread dough. I always used wine yeast before, never bread yeast. I'm not sure what the issue it. SG hasn't dropped after 5 days.

Where's the gravity been sitting, Budapest?
Be aware sugar washes are unstable pH-wise. Not saying that's it, but get some oyster shells in a brew sock to toss in future washes.
They use crushed oyster shells for poultry feed supplement, so are readily available --even on Amazon.
Have a brew shop near you? Get some calcium carbonate ---same thing as shells.
Or how 'bout some eggshells? Have an egg sandwich or two, wash the shells and throw those in.

[The Baker]

Excessive yeast, maybe?

Geoff

[Saltbush Bill]

I made a batch in a fast ferment conical fermenter that's struggling. I've been making wine for a long time and this has never happened to me. Smells like bread dough. I always used wine yeast before, never bread yeast. I'm not sure what the issue it. SG hasn't dropped after 5 days.

Stick a finger in and have a taste, is it still sweet or does it taste dry ? Maybe your readings are wrong.
How warm is it? Bakers yeast works harder with some warmth.

[Budapest8485]

I made a batch in a fast ferment conical fermenter that's struggling. I've been making wine for a long time and this has never happened to me. Smells like bread dough. I always used wine yeast before, never bread yeast. I'm not sure what the issue it. SG hasn't dropped after 5 days.

Where's the gravity been sitting, Budapest?
Be aware sugar washes are unstable pH-wise. Not saying that's it, but get some oyster shells in a brew sock to toss in future washes.
They use crushed oyster shells for poultry feed supplement, so are readily available --even on Amazon.
Have a brew shop near you? Get some calcium carbonate ---same thing as shells.
Or how 'bout some eggshells? Have an egg sandwich or two, wash the shells and throw those in.

SG is 1.07 and holding as of last night. My reading is accurate. I've been making a similar wash (sugar based wine) for a long time and never had an issue. Last night I added my usually champagne yeast and you should have seen the immediate activity and swirling. I assume the yeast gave the dissolved CO2 something to attach to causing the sound and movement of the wash.

I'll check it tonight and see how it's going. The differences between this and what I've done in the past are the yeast (bakers), the amount of citrus (a much smaller amount), and the nutrient (boiled bakers yeast with, epsom, and lime juice). I have a pH meter, so I'll try to get a reading on it.

[Budapest8485]

Excessive yeast, maybe?

Geoff

Perhaps. Next batch I'll definitely stick to what I know and add just one pack of champagne yeast.

[Budapest8485]

I made a batch in a fast ferment conical fermenter that's struggling. I've been making wine for a long time and this has never happened to me. Smells like bread dough. I always used wine yeast before, never bread yeast. I'm not sure what the issue it. SG hasn't dropped after 5 days.

Stick a finger in and have a taste, is it still sweet or does it taste dry ? Maybe your readings are wrong.
How warm is it? Bakers yeast works harder with some warmth.

Reading is accurate. It's sweet. It's about 73 degrees Maybe the temp is the problem. Champagne yeast at room temp has always worked for me in the past. I'm going that route next time.

[Budapest8485]

I made a batch in a fast ferment conical fermenter that's struggling. I've been making wine for a long time and this has never happened to me. Smells like bread dough. I always used wine yeast before, never bread yeast. I'm not sure what the issue it. SG hasn't dropped after 5 days.

Where's the gravity been sitting, Budapest?
Be aware sugar washes are unstable pH-wise. Not saying that's it, but get some oyster shells in a brew sock to toss in future washes.
They use crushed oyster shells for poultry feed supplement, so are readily available --even on Amazon.
Have a brew shop near you? Get some calcium carbonate ---same thing as shells.
Or how 'bout some eggshells? Have an egg sandwich or two, wash the shells and throw those in.

SG is 1.07 and holding as of last night. My reading is accurate. I've been making a similar wash (sugar based wine) for a long time and never had an issue. Last night I added my usually champagne yeast and you should have seen the immediate activity and swirling. I assume the yeast gave the dissolved CO2 something to attach to causing the sound and movement of the wash.

I'll check it tonight and see how it's going. The differences between this and what I've done in the past are the yeast (bakers), the amount of citrus (a much smaller amount), and the nutrient (boiled bakers yeast with, epsom, and lime juice). I have a pH meter, so I'll try to get a reading on it.

I measured the SG at lunch today and it's dropped 0.01 since yesterday. Maybe the bakers yeast is sensitive to temp? The champagne yeast doesn't care and it's going to work! Big bubbles coming up now.

[NZChris]

73 degrees is cold for bakers yeast, which is why the original method on page 1 of this thread says to use 30-35C.

[Budapest8485]

73 degrees is cold for bakers yeast, which is why the original method on page 1 of this thread says to use 30-35C.

Okay, lesson learned...never again. I like the champagne yeast and from what I've seen online, the results are similar with a clean neutral end product. Champagne costs more, but I don't want to deal with heating it at this time. Maybe in the future I'll change my mind.

[nuncaquite]

I seldom have any wash or mash ferment out as quick as most here say theirs do. But I dont heat either. My work is usually about a week behind what seems to be the norm.

I use bakers and champagne yeast both in Birdwatchers. A bit less tomato paste, a lb more sugar, then bentonite. When it clears there is no smell whatsoever. There is some waste with the bentonite, but I feel it more than makes up in a better product.

Once you have tweeked BW to your liking, and you stick with your version, it will be so predictable that you will know exactly
where/when your cuts come in. It is dependable, its clock work, the genius in BW is the simplicity, stay close to the BW recipe
and it will not fail you.

[Budapest8485]

I seldom have any wash or mash ferment out as quick as most here say theirs do. But I dont heat either. My work is usually about a week behind what seems to be the norm.

I use bakers and champagne yeast both in Birdwatchers. A bit less tomato paste, a lb more sugar, then bentonite. When it clears there is no smell whatsoever. There is some waste with the bentonite, but I feel it more than makes up in a better product.

Once you have tweeked BW to your liking, and you stick with your version, it will be so predictable that you will know exactly
where/when your cuts come in. It is dependable, its clock work, the genius in BW is the simplicity, stay close to the BW recipe
and it will not fail you.

Mine is going slooooowwwww..... But there's progress everyday. I've just left the hydrometer inside the fastferment floating around. I give it spin to knock the bubbles off and take my reading. I'll give it a few days before I check it again...it's going to be a couple week at this pace.

[MtRainier]

Budapest, I don’t know where you live, but if in the US you can get a seed starting mat for around 15 bucks from Walmart. It keeps my 14 g trashcan at about 85 F when taped to the side in a 70 degree room.

[Budapest8485]

Budapest, I don’t know where you live, but if in the US you can get a seed starting mat for around 15 bucks from Walmart. It keeps my 14 g trashcan at about 85 F when taped to the side in a 70 degree room.

I might try that sometime. I'm used to these things taking 2 weeks to ferment dry when using champagne yeast. I have no gauge on baker's yeast having never used it before.

I'm wondering how much the end quality of the product matter when you're using a reflux still. If I did a fast stripping run of 4 batches, then blended them together and did a slow spirit run, won't that remove almost all the imperfections of a wash that didn't turnout so great? If I did end up with close to 96% abv, how much character of the wash is going to be left?

[nuncaquite]

[quote] I'm wondering how much the end quality of the product matter when you're using a reflux still. If I did a fast stripping run of 4 batches, then blended them together and did a slow spirit run, won't that remove almost all the imperfections of a wash that didn't turnout so great? If I did end up with close to 96% abv, how much character of the wash is going to be left?[quote]

Im not sure of the quality/ABV you are trying to achieve, or the time you are willing to put into your product.
So take that under consideration when reading what I am about to write.
As an example we will say someone has a 10 TPW. If that person were to strip (high temp fast) that 10g, and then put the ethanol into a clean
boiler, add water back to the 10g mark, distill again at a more friendly temp, the end product after cuts would still be pretty good.
The water will hold onto a lot of the nasty stuff. Its about your goals. But done according to this scenario, one would get
a product good enough to use as a mixer or for that kinda apple pie like drink.
I have a nice column set up. Im using it less these days.

[Budapest8485]

I'm wondering how much the end quality of the product matter when you're using a reflux still. If I did a fast stripping run of 4 batches, then blended them together and did a slow spirit run, won't that remove almost all the imperfections of a wash that didn't turnout so great? If I did end up with close to 96% abv, how much character of the wash is going to be left?

Im not sure of the quality/ABV you are trying to achieve, or the time you are willing to put into your product.
So take that under consideration when reading what I am about to write.
As an example we will say someone has a 10 TPW. If that person were to strip (high temp fast) that 10g, and then put the ethanol into a clean
boiler, add water back to the 10g mark, distill again at a more friendly temp, the end product after cuts would still be pretty good.
The water will hold onto a lot of the nasty stuff. Its about your goals. But done according to this scenario, one would get
a product good enough to use as a mixer or for that kinda apple pie like drink.
I have a nice column set up. Im using it less these days.

My first goal is a neutral vodka. Watered back to 40% at the end and used to mix with soda and a lime. It seems logical that I can strip run a wash that maybe has some off smells or flavors. Then later do a slower more controlled run and not have any of those less than desirable notes remaining. Yes, definitely nothing goes into the boiler over 40% abv...I understand that. I have no experience, but I'm close to trying this for the first time. Waiting on my SSR...taiwan is very slow about getting it to me!

After I manage that, I want to venture into making some spirits with more character. I realize I'm going to do more pot stilling down the road to accomplish this.

[nuncaquite]

My first goal is a neutral vodka.

When you reach that goal, put a squeeze of corn syrup and a squeeze of glycerin into your vodka, pour it into a TItos bottle
and carry it to an event. Then your wife's friends drunk husbands can explain the Titos process and why no one makes a better vodka. Never tell those drunkards you distilled it.

[Budapest8485]

My first goal is a neutral vodka.

When you reach that goal, put a squeeze of corn syrup and a squeeze of glycerin into your vodka, pour it into a TItos bottle
and carry it to an event. Then your wife's friends drunk husbands can explain the Titos process and why no one makes a better vodka. Never tell those drunkards you distilled it.

You read my mind! I have been collecting empties for just such a purpose.

Does Titos add glycerin to their vodka? I've heard people think Sky Vodka is bland coz it's so pure. Maybe they do a process like we're discussing here.

[nuncaquite]

Im not sure what if anything Titos adds. I just know how to ''clone'' it fairly well.
Birdwatchers is a good start at that.

Having read up a bit on vodkas, it seems that they are given a bit of room to cheat
with additives. If the additives are held down to a couple percentage they do not
have to label the additive. Its a competitive market, odds say there is some cheating
going on.