Found Source of White Oak Board
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Found Source of White Oak Board
I've tracked down a source for rough cut white oak boards from a small custom sawmill. The boards are about 10 ft long, 9 inches wide, and 1 1/2 inch thick. The mill reports the stack has been air drying for 1 1/2 years. No chemicals or kiln dried. It has about 14% moisture left. My only concern is they have been drying under a leanto. So while it has been weathered from changes in temp and humidity outside in the midwest, it has not been exposed to rain or snow. If I read things correctly on this, it is the repeated process of being washed by rain, air dried, wash by rain, air dried, over and over that rids the board of tannins. IF I AM WRONG please advise.
I've picked up two boards. I plan to cut them down about 3ft in length, 4 1/2 inch width and then just stack in a grid and leave outside to get washed by rain. Given they've already dried out, will my process still work? Or should I give them a good soaking in a 55 gallon drum of water first?
Thanks
I've picked up two boards. I plan to cut them down about 3ft in length, 4 1/2 inch width and then just stack in a grid and leave outside to get washed by rain. Given they've already dried out, will my process still work? Or should I give them a good soaking in a 55 gallon drum of water first?
Thanks
Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
I'm no arberist so take this with a grain but you need to be sure it's the heart wood oak. I buy used barrels and chop them up to make my own sticks.
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
Just my personal experience, I’m not a pro.
1.5” thick is nice. 1.5 years of air drying is about the bare minimum it takes to dry green QS oak that thick. Most go a bit longer, so I’m told. Once they get below 15% moisture for the first time, they should not warp (much) because most of the cell walls have hardened, even if their moisture goes way up again. You should get them down below 5 before trying any toasting, or they can split more easily during toasting as the moisture try’s to escape.
If you plan to cut those down shorter they 3’ eventually, maybe do that now. Assuming your boards are QS, the end grain of those boards are where the wood channels are that “breath”, so shorter sticks means your wood will season quicker.
The outdoor wet/dry cycle you stated is my understanding of the process of seasoning as well. You should not need to soak them if they will be getting naturally wet soon anyway. If your not getting any rain soon, you could let them dry a bit more to make sure they harden, then soak or hose them down repeatedly until they are wet again.
I have a couple hundred board feet of QS Am Wh Oak and QS Oregon Oak merins stacked outside now. I rotate the stacks every few months. During summer months when it’s dry I soak and/or hose them down when they get dry, ~7% or lower. The way I see it, I can get an extra season or two on them doing extra wet/dry cycles during the summer.
An added benefit of soaking the wood is that it makes identifying heart wood from sap wood very easy. The sap wood soaks up a lot more water than heart wood and it swells more, making it super easily to see the sap wood.
Good luck. Otis
1.5” thick is nice. 1.5 years of air drying is about the bare minimum it takes to dry green QS oak that thick. Most go a bit longer, so I’m told. Once they get below 15% moisture for the first time, they should not warp (much) because most of the cell walls have hardened, even if their moisture goes way up again. You should get them down below 5 before trying any toasting, or they can split more easily during toasting as the moisture try’s to escape.
If you plan to cut those down shorter they 3’ eventually, maybe do that now. Assuming your boards are QS, the end grain of those boards are where the wood channels are that “breath”, so shorter sticks means your wood will season quicker.
The outdoor wet/dry cycle you stated is my understanding of the process of seasoning as well. You should not need to soak them if they will be getting naturally wet soon anyway. If your not getting any rain soon, you could let them dry a bit more to make sure they harden, then soak or hose them down repeatedly until they are wet again.
I have a couple hundred board feet of QS Am Wh Oak and QS Oregon Oak merins stacked outside now. I rotate the stacks every few months. During summer months when it’s dry I soak and/or hose them down when they get dry, ~7% or lower. The way I see it, I can get an extra season or two on them doing extra wet/dry cycles during the summer.
An added benefit of soaking the wood is that it makes identifying heart wood from sap wood very easy. The sap wood soaks up a lot more water than heart wood and it swells more, making it super easily to see the sap wood.
Good luck. Otis
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
Otis, thanks for the advice. I do plan to cut sticks to infuse in quarts, and 1/2 gallon jars. So maybe 6 inch sticks. But for seasoning, shouldn't I have a longer length and width than the actual size of the sticks? What size would you recommend if you think 3' x 4 1/2" is too long?OtisT wrote:Just my personal experience, I’m not a pro.
If you plan to cut those down shorter they 3’ eventually, maybe do that now. Assuming your boards are QS, the end grain of those boards are where the wood channels are that “breath”, so shorter sticks means your wood will season quicker.
Good luck. Otis
Also I assume QS = Quarter Sawed. I think they are just flat sawed. Would this change anything from your perspective?
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
I cut as little as possible, so it depends on how clean the wood is. Maybe 1/8” shaved off the ends, unless it looks like you got mud or something else up in the grains, in which case I would cut until it’s clean. A little raccoon pee never hurt anyone.WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:. Otis, thanks for the advice. I do plan to cut sticks to infuse in quarts, and 1/2 gallon jars. So maybe 6 inch sticks. But for seasoning, shouldn't I have a longer length and width than the actual size of the sticks? What size would you recommend if you think 3' x 4 1/2" is too long?
Also I assume QS = Quarter Sawed. I think they are just flat sawed. Would this change anything from your perspective?
Yes, QS means Quarter Sawn. For sticks, it don’t matter how the wood was cut. The grain only comes into play for barrels.
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
Thanks OtisT. You've been a big help.
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
So I've let these season outside this whole time. Been through 2 winters, 2 springs, 1 Fall and in its second summer now. I've not cut the board but am looking to cut them down and do some toasting.OtisT wrote: ↑Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:45 amI cut as little as possible, so it depends on how clean the wood is. Maybe 1/8” shaved off the ends, unless it looks like you got mud or something else up in the grains, in which case I would cut until it’s clean. A little raccoon pee never hurt anyone.WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:. Otis, thanks for the advice. I do plan to cut sticks to infuse in quarts, and 1/2 gallon jars. So maybe 6 inch sticks. But for seasoning, shouldn't I have a longer length and width than the actual size of the sticks? What size would you recommend if you think 3' x 4 1/2" is too long?
Also I assume QS = Quarter Sawed. I think they are just flat sawed. Would this change anything from your perspective?
Yes, QS means Quarter Sawn. For sticks, it don’t matter how the wood was cut. The grain only comes into play for barrels.
Question: These things are completely gray. Should I clean them up any before toasting by taking a wire brush or sand paper to them? They are not dirty. Just wondering is I should sand/scrub off the grayed wood.
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
Barrels are cheaper up here
And pretty well ready to use
And pretty well ready to use
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
I don’t know what the experts do, but I always clean up the surfaces of what was seasoning before I use it. I personally think you should sand them first. OtisWithOrWithoutU2 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:32 pmSo I've let these season outside this whole time. Been through 2 winters, 2 springs, 1 Fall and in its second summer now. I've not cut the board but am looking to cut them down and do some toasting.OtisT wrote: ↑Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:45 amI cut as little as possible, so it depends on how clean the wood is. Maybe 1/8” shaved off the ends, unless it looks like you got mud or something else up in the grains, in which case I would cut until it’s clean. A little raccoon pee never hurt anyone.WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:. Otis, thanks for the advice. I do plan to cut sticks to infuse in quarts, and 1/2 gallon jars. So maybe 6 inch sticks. But for seasoning, shouldn't I have a longer length and width than the actual size of the sticks? What size would you recommend if you think 3' x 4 1/2" is too long?
Also I assume QS = Quarter Sawed. I think they are just flat sawed. Would this change anything from your perspective?
Yes, QS means Quarter Sawn. For sticks, it don’t matter how the wood was cut. The grain only comes into play for barrels.
Question: These things are completely gray. Should I clean them up any before toasting by taking a wire brush or sand paper to them? They are not dirty. Just wondering is I should sand/scrub off the grayed wood.
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
+1 Otis. Scrape or sand....OtisT wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:05 pmI don’t know what the experts do, but I always clean up the surfaces of what was seasoning before I use it. I personally think you should sand them first. OtisWithOrWithoutU2 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:32 pmSo I've let these season outside this whole time. Been through 2 winters, 2 springs, 1 Fall and in its second summer now. I've not cut the board but am looking to cut them down and do some toasting.OtisT wrote: ↑Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:45 amI cut as little as possible, so it depends on how clean the wood is. Maybe 1/8” shaved off the ends, unless it looks like you got mud or something else up in the grains, in which case I would cut until it’s clean. A little raccoon pee never hurt anyone.WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:. Otis, thanks for the advice. I do plan to cut sticks to infuse in quarts, and 1/2 gallon jars. So maybe 6 inch sticks. But for seasoning, shouldn't I have a longer length and width than the actual size of the sticks? What size would you recommend if you think 3' x 4 1/2" is too long?
Also I assume QS = Quarter Sawed. I think they are just flat sawed. Would this change anything from your perspective?
Yes, QS means Quarter Sawn. For sticks, it don’t matter how the wood was cut. The grain only comes into play for barrels.
Question: These things are completely gray. Should I clean them up any before toasting by taking a wire brush or sand paper to them? They are not dirty. Just wondering is I should sand/scrub off the grayed wood.
Good judgement is the result of experience.
Experience is usually the result of bad judgement..
Experience is usually the result of bad judgement..
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
Oak is difficult to cut wet. Its difficult to toast wet too. Air dry, or kiln it if you are in a hurry, but for future planning, you'll want at least 12 months for sheltered drying (to add on to the outdoor weathering).WithOrWithoutU2 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:32 pm So I've let these season outside this whole time. Been through 2 winters, 2 springs, 1 Fall and in its second summer now. I've not cut the board but am looking to cut them down and do some toasting.
Question: These things are completely gray. Should I clean them up any before toasting by taking a wire brush or sand paper to them? They are not dirty. Just wondering is I should sand/scrub off the grayed wood.
I use my grandfather's No.4 Stanley planer. Never sand it.
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
+1 on not sanding use a plane if you really think you have to, but the wood doesn't need to be pretty,
toasting and charring will take care of that unsightly grey. do a small experiment with sticks cleaned
and not cleaned before heat treatment. you should find no difference.
toasting and charring will take care of that unsightly grey. do a small experiment with sticks cleaned
and not cleaned before heat treatment. you should find no difference.
be water my friend
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
Why not use a grinder with a wire brush to clean it upcob wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:35 pm +1 on not sanding use a plane if you really think you have to, but the wood doesn't need to be pretty,
toasting and charring will take care of that unsightly grey. do a small experiment with sticks cleaned
and not cleaned before heat treatment. you should find no difference.
Would speed things up
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
I’ve got various barrel heads and staves disassembled and stacked sitting outside in the elements for up to four years now (oldest). When i prep them for use i’ll take a stiff brush to them to mildly clean off any char and debris but not worry too much about it because i’ll filter before I bottle plus toasting and soaking in 125 proof for a year is going to kill anything living. When i cut them i leave them as large as I can fit into the aging vessel. 1 gallon large mouth glass takes a nice sized chunk and gallon jugs get the smaller cuts. Carboys of low wines, feints, and aging backset get the long offcut slivers or end bits because they may sit around for a while.
Cheers!
-jonny
Cheers!
-jonny
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
Why? Its already seasoned oak.jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:55 am I’ve got various barrel heads and staves disassembled and stacked sitting outside in the elements for up to four years now (oldest).
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
Gotta store em somewhere lol.
Cheers!
-jonny
Cheers!
-jonny
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
I was only trying to discourage sanding, because of grit, dust, and the possibility of residual adhesive.dukethebeagle120 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:26 amWhy not use a grinder with a wire brush to clean it upcob wrote: ↑Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:35 pm +1 on not sanding use a plane if you really think you have to, but the wood doesn't need to be pretty,
toasting and charring will take care of that unsightly grey. do a small experiment with sticks cleaned
and not cleaned before heat treatment. you should find no difference.
Would speed things up
be water my friend
Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
After sanding, all grit or dust would be burned with charring....
Good judgement is the result of experience.
Experience is usually the result of bad judgement..
Experience is usually the result of bad judgement..
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
Thanks to all for advice.
I am in no rush, so I can shelter dry longer. Most likely just in my garage which is attached to my house.
The boards aren't dirty but I still may plane it down before toasting and charring.
I am in no rush, so I can shelter dry longer. Most likely just in my garage which is attached to my house.
The boards aren't dirty but I still may plane it down before toasting and charring.
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
It depends on how you are drying the wood, but it does not take a full year to dry out the oak I bring in from seasoning. After seasoning I bring it in and stack it (spacing between each board) near a forced air vent, so there is lots of air movement. Usually a month to two is enough. I use a moisture meter. My boards are typically around 9-15% when I bring them in and I want them at <5% before toasting. The area in and near knots retain water longer and require more time to dry.
At 5% moisture and higher I start to see some cracking in the wood when I toast it. If your wood is too wet when you toast, you can see wet spots appear on the wood where excess water is escaping and those spots are often cracked and swollen when the toasting is done. I guess if you are just toasting sticks that is not a problem. I’m making barrel heads, so this stuff matters to me.
Happy Drying.
Otis
At 5% moisture and higher I start to see some cracking in the wood when I toast it. If your wood is too wet when you toast, you can see wet spots appear on the wood where excess water is escaping and those spots are often cracked and swollen when the toasting is done. I guess if you are just toasting sticks that is not a problem. I’m making barrel heads, so this stuff matters to me.
Happy Drying.
Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
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Re: Found Source of White Oak Board
3 years in the sun is where some of the pros find ideal for aging. Most can't do that due to the cost. The sun helps break down some of the chemicals into more flavor friendly ones. Heat (toasting & charring) also makes better flavors.
More here:
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/index.ph ... _for_aging
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Wood_aging
More here:
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/index.ph ... _for_aging
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Wood_aging