Help a Newbe with electric heat

[Cabron99]

Some learning curve! Will receive my "High Volume Gin Series" from Brewhaus Late this week or next. Have been brewing beer for 12 years or so, so I understand the basics of mash and ferment. This has been with gas with either PID and now BCS.
This new hobby will be a challenge with all electric. After some considerable research on this wonderful site, I have come to wonder why everyone doesn't jump and shout for the DSPR400 by Auber. I would like to hook up one for my system. (110-1500W stick w/110-1500W belt, 8gal boiler - I have both 110 and 220 available)
Am I heading down the rabbit hole? With a little hand holding, I feel like I might be able to build a box but my electrical experience is limited. One alternative would be a Variac, but maybe not quite as sexy. I think I have included a link to the Auber unit below.
Any help or constructive criticism will be greatly appreciated. BTW a tip of the hat to the creators of this webpage. Its fantastic - I've donated and will again.


https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main ... cts_id=559" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[OtisT]

Hi cabron. My opinion is that this could be cool for a distiller who first knows how to distill well without something like this. I would not recommend this to someone who does not already know quite a bit about operating distillation systems, and specifically the equipment they plan to use this on.

If it had a manual operation mode it could be something to grow into.

Otis

[Cabron99]

Otis, right you are; I have zero experience in this craft. I do, however still need a controller of some sort to get started. I think it does have a manual mode. The idea of wiring it up is daunting to me

Pat

[still_stirrin]

That module can be operated either of two modes: distillation, where the module regulates input power (probably by the percentage of full power) and brewing, or fermentation mode, which regulates power corresponding to a set temperature.

So, the module would work to power your boiler...in the distillation mode. But knowing when and how much to adjust the boiler heat input depends on how well you know your system. Knowing the production rate, or at least the proportional control of it, would be wise. And as Otis advised, it will take a little experience to gain that working knowledge.

So, Auberins has answered the call for a controller which will offer "manual" proportional control of power throughput. In fact, they have several other devices which do this already, they're just marketed differently. If you have the money for this control, then by all means, buy it and use it. But, knowing "how to" use it is a different matter. Learn that, and you'll see that there are many other options to control circuitry already and some of them are more economical as well.

Just be safe, responsible, and discrete with what ever solution you decide on.
ss

[NineInchNails]

That's an awesome little controller!

I put together a controller a while ago, it uses an Auber PID & SSR as well as a Potentiometer & variable SSR. That requires two SSRs, two heatsinks, a LOT of wiring, I used an internal fan, and it requires a significantly larger box. That new Auber crushes most controller designs today. The ONLY thing that sucks is that it doesn't allow for a volt/amp meter due to the way the Auber works (it cycles the power on & off quickly). That's not a deal breaker though.

I don't think that Auber controller is overkill or too complicated for a beginner at all.

[Cabron99]

I am liking these replies. Much food for thought. I will probably over-analyse the situation. Not much of a diy'r concerning electricity, so might start with a Variac - plug and play - however having things monitored and semi-automatic is a big attraction for me. (My beer rig is run by a BCS hooked up to a R-Pi. My son understands electronics, but not electrics.)
Does that sound like a good approach? You know I'd like to get things up and running ASAP. So much fun to be had, so little time!
Really do appreciate the replies. Many thanks

[NineInchNails]

I am liking these replies. Much food for thought. I will probably over-analyse the situation. Not much of a diy'r concerning electricity, so might start with a Variac - plug and play - however having things monitored and semi-automatic is a big attraction for me. (My beer rig is run by a BCS hooked up to a R-Pi. My son understands electronics, but not electrics.)
Does that sound like a good approach? You know I'd like to get things up and running ASAP. So much fun to be had, so little time!
Really do appreciate the replies. Many thanks

IF you choose to do an Auber controller, just know that it is much easier than you might think. The instructions that come with the unit shows how to to wire it. All you really need is:

The Auber unit
A box/enclosure
One SSR (Solid State Relay)
A Heatsink & thermal grease/paste. Thermal paste ensures efficient heat conduction between them.
I prefer to use RTD Sensors instead of Thermocouples.
Panel mount connector for your temp sensor
RTD Extension Cable to wire the Panel Mount to the Auber unit
The appropriate gauge wires.
The plugs for power in and power out.
A power on/off switch if you want one.

You can have the heatsink mounted inside or outside of the box/enclosure. Many say that if you mount the heatsink outside of the enclosure then no need for a fan. There's really not much to it. You can shop around for a really cheap SSR which can be risky as there's a lot counterfeit junk online sold cheap. Some may be able to point you in the direction of an inexpensive SSR that's good to go.

Auber lists their unit's instructions on their product's web pages. If you take a look at the instructions you'll see that the only wiring coming from the controller is the temp probe/sensor, 2 wires for AC power and 2 wires for the SSR. Real simple.

The only thing that is slightly out of the ordinary is soldering the 3 wires of the RTD Sensor to the 3 pins on the Panel Mount for the RTD Sensor to connect to. You'll want a little bit of RTD Extension Cable to run from the Panel Mount to the Auber Unit. Use Silver Solder for this.

[Desvio]

I really like that controller, be fun to apply that to a future build.

I have been using Aubers DSP1/SSR for many years with no disappointments, hooked up to a 4500W 240V element, external 40A heat sink. Haven't needed a fan for cooling even running wide open up to boiling, then I end up throttling back to a maintenance setting. It gives you a percentage output that I have gotten so used to I abandoned setting up an amp meter. I have messed with the burst firing mode to maintain mashing temps, but that is still a work in process that might be overkill to dailing it back to a lower output.



https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main ... cts_id=444
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main ... cts_id=348

[Cabron99]

Boy, NineInchNails and Desvio, you guys just kind of laid it out their for me. I'm going to study what you both just spread out. Really appreciate the links, even I might be able to follow this. I am older (72) so it might take a while. What won't take a while is the expression of appreciation for all of your responses. Thanks. I'm sure I will have questions along the way, but I feel confident I can get some answers now. I'll be studying this afternoon.

[NineInchNails]

I was just searching around on Auber's website and checked out their heatsinks. Wow those are significantly larger than the heatsinks I've ever used. They might be overkill, but smaller ones seem to work fine.

Check out heatsinkusa.com. You can buy most any size or shape aluminum heatsink by the inch. Pretty cool. You would have to drill & tap threads for the SSR though. Auber sells them already pre-drilled & threaded.

Terminal Strips are really handy. They make wiring a lot more convenient. You just have to make sure you choose one that is at good for 30A-40A.

[paddy1000111]

The wiring may seem daunting but its usually a lot more simple than you think. Earth to everything, neutral from the heating coil and then the live just daisy chains all the bits together

In all seriousness it isn't as scary as it looks. I use a still controller from StillDragon that I broke out into a larger box so I can have a cooling fan (it never even puts out warm air) and ammeter as well as the percentage indicator. Basically the live goes into the SCR then into the ammeter then into the heating element. There's just a little dc rectifier in there for the fan as its 12 volt.



The only thing I would question is the compact size of that controller and how well it handles the power. It's a small box with a lot of wattage!

[Cabron99]

Well, got all the parts assembled and will probably begin assembly this weekend. Got the DSPR400 from Auber and a nice box kit from StillDragon. The box looks to have plenty of room for everything. Not sure about a fan, yet but looking to install an amp-meter. We'll see.

Thanks for all the encouragement. This is gonna be fun!!

pao

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main ... cts_id=559" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-la ... oller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[paddy1000111]

Hopefully you do okay with fitting it all in the box! I had to upgrade mine to a much larger box to fit everything in nicely.

[NineInchNails]

Very cool!

[Oldvine Zin]

Well, got all the parts assembled and will probably begin assembly this weekend. Got the DSPR400 from Auber and a nice box kit from StillDragon. The box looks to have plenty of room for everything. Not sure about a fan, yet but looking to install an amp-meter. We'll see.

Thanks for all the encouragement. This is gonna be fun!!

pao

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main ... cts_id=559" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-la ... oller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cool I would love to hear how the auberins controller works out but I don't think that the SSR that comes with the still dragon kit is compatible with it. My understanding is that the auberins controller uses a voltage controlled SSR and the SD one is resistance controlled.

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress

OVZ

[Yummyrum]

Well, got all the parts assembled and will probably begin assembly this weekend. Got the DSPR400 from Auber and a nice box kit from StillDragon. The box looks to have plenty of room for everything. Not sure about a fan, yet but looking to install an amp-meter. We'll see.

Thanks for all the encouragement. This is gonna be fun!!

pao

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main ... cts_id=559" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://stilldragon.com/index.php/diy-la ... oller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cool I would love to hear how the auberins controller works out but I don't think that the SSR that comes with the still dragon kit is compatible with it. My understanding is that the auberins controller uses a voltage controlled SSR and the SD one is resistance controlled.

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress

OVZ

Good call OVZ

There are two major types of SSR , the SSRxxVR or SSRxxVA type as used in the “pot in a box “type controllers such as the
One that Still dragon sell and the SSRxxDA type that are used by Most PID controllers including the Auberins ones .

They are not inter changable . The SSRxxDA series are electrically isolated zero crossing relays whereas the SSRxxVR series are basically a light dimmer on steroids in an epoxy case with no electical isolation which is a self contained phase controller .

do not use the SSR from a still dragon kit when using the Auberins controller

[Cabron99]

OVZ and YummyRum...

Can't thank youse guys enough. I surely would have sent everything up in smoke. My understanding is that I can get that relay from Auber and will do. Thanks again!! So I'm not clear on which one to order. I will wait for further instructions. Sorry for being so dense, electricity is not my strong suit. I can take a direct order, though. Tkls

pao

[Oldvine Zin]

You might be able to get away with the 25 amp version but that dosen't leave much safety head room or room for upgrading your element. I personally would spend the few extra $$ for the 40 amp version http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... ucts_id=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Good luck

OVZ

[Yummyrum]

I agree

[shadylane]

Bigger is better
I'd recommend the 40A also
Don't forget the heat sink paste

[Cabron99]

Just ordered it. Oldvine Zin, YummyRumy, NineInchNails, and all the others: what a wealth of information! Thanks so much. Great forum.

pao

[Kezza]

Thanks so much for those who contributed to this post. I was in the same boat as Carbon99, I had read so many posts on this topic but most of it went over my head. I prematurely ordered a 1300w hotplate for my 10 gal pot still and had realised it wasn't gonna cut the mustard. After reading this post I finally knew how to do it.
Just gotta work out now how to stick this post in my signature to help out other hopeless electricians lol. Another days reading by the looks.

Cheers
Kezza

[NineInchNails]

OVZ and YummyRum...

Can't thank youse guys enough. I surely would have sent everything up in smoke. My understanding is that I can get that relay from Auber and will do. Thanks again!! So I'm not clear on which one to order. I will wait for further instructions. Sorry for being so dense, electricity is not my strong suit. I can take a direct order, though. Tkls

pao

The one sold with the Still Dragon kit is considered as a 'variable' SSR. That is what you use with a potentiometer to give you variable power to the heating element. You turn the knob on the potentiometer and you get more or less heat.

This one from Auber is basically considered as like a 'normally open' relay. When the Auber controller sends brief, rapid signals to the SSR, the SSR sends full power to the heating element. This is the same type of SSR you use with PID controllers too. Your Auber controller sends brief, rapid signals to the SSR to simulate the function of a potentiometer, by sending 100% power to the heater based on % of time it is on vs off.

What I really like about this Auber controller is that it not only simulates the function of a PID, it also provides variable power. Worth every penny in my opinion.

I would contact Auber to see what they say about the ability to use one of those Amp meters. They have very good tech support there. I kinda doubt you can use one of those meters because of how the controller works. Since the controller will be sending brief, rapid signals to the SSR, the SSR will be sending brief, rapid, full power to the heater and therefore your Amp meter would be flickering extremely fast. Probably not practical. You would just have to learn to go by the % of power that is indicated on the controller rather than knowing how many amps you are running.

[Kezza]

Is there any way to tell if the potentiometer is working correctly? I have setup mine in exactly the same way as in Paddy's pictures with an ammeter(hes right, a biiger box than the stilldragon one would have been better). I haven"t kooked up the element yet but I am getting 120v out of each hot wire. I thought even though the element isn't hooked up the ammeter should register as I turn the knob, but nothing. Have I done something wrong? Or does it need the load of the element to make it work?

Cheers
Kezza

[Oldvine Zin]

Hi Kezza,
Ammeters measure amps(load), if there is no load it has nothing to measure.

Hope that helps
OVZ

[decoy]

To test a potentiometer you need to set your multi meter to ohms, here is a youtube link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo5OTCp_Thg

If you short the potentiometer input pins on the SSR, it should output 100% power

[decoy]

This is my interpretation of how the wiring should be, the picture of the solid state regulator pin outs are the same just different model.

Moving the potentiometer link to the other side of the middle pin will change clock or anti clockwise rotation for power up or down.

Placing the amp meter before the SSR will give total power SSR+element, placing the amp meter after the SSR and before element will only show element power.

Ensure you have a "Solid State Regulator" not a "Solid State Relay" the relay has a 3-30v power input where the regulator shows a resistor over pins 3 and 4.

The Earth is connected to any metallic object including case, element and Pot

The SSR is mounted on an aluminium heatsink that dissipates the heat.

An AC AMP meter has no input polarity.

Paddys picture shows a small white box, it apears to be a 12v LED power supply, I do not see what he is using this for, he appears to be feeding it into the potentiometer and then into the SSR??

You can also include power switch in series on active input.

Large Image https://i.imgur.com/hWAeqDt.jpg

[Windswept]

These things must throw some heat! The heat sink that came with it from Auber is huge!

[Expat]

It's not so much. But the heatsink is designed to cool it passively (assuming it's not inside a box that is) so it's sized accordingly.

I have a small 12v computer fan on mine, it barely needs to run, the heatsink never even gets "warm".

YMMV though, my heat sink is different.

[Kezza]

So, I hooked up the heating element today. The scariest part was putting a hole in the side of my shiny new still! it all went to plan though and this thing works awesome. The ammeter works as its supposed to and makes it so easy to fine tune the temperature. The ammeter only came up to 22.5 amps, but it is way more heat than I need anyway. Thanks everyone again who contributed to this thread