column takes quite a while to run

[mjrbuzz]

i am finally getting comfortable running my 2" column still. enough so that i would like to increase the rate of flow so it wont take quite as long to make a run.

what i have is a 3' by 2" copper column that reduces down to a 1/2" in pipe that uses a 1" jacket as a condenser.

my question is if i loose the 1/2" and run everything in 2" with a shotgun type condenser will i be able to increase the speed of the run?

[paddy1000111]

Yea that's one way. When you say that you want to make it faster are you currently running the still at full input heat? Or do you reduce the heat because you are limited by the cooling?

[OtisT]

Sounds like you have a pot still? (No reflux condenser and no packing in the column.)

If you are running a pot still at full power now, The only thing I can think of that could speed up the run would be to insulate your boiler and column section. That could get you another 500w or so output. Make sure your condenser will handle the extra power.

Beyond that more details would help, starting with a picture of your rig.

Otis

[raketemensch]

We really need to know how you’re putting power into this thing, and how much.

Your condenser isn’t a bottleneck unless your distillate is coming out too hot.

Odds are that you’d be best off putting more heat into the boiler with more gas/electric power, as long as you’re making sure your condenser is keeping up. If it’s a stripping run, just blast more heat as long as that temp stays reasonable and you’re not emitting vapor.

I can’t remember the exact highest-allowed product temp right now, but you could google it out of these forums, it’s in here somewhere.

[mjrbuzz]

i will take some pictures of everything and post them here. im currently running a pid that i use to get the pot up to temp then switch it to manual mode to regulate the input power. its a 5500w element on 120v so its acting like a 1375w or something like that. i will bump it up to 220 for my next run for some more power.

[paddy1000111]

Well if you are running it on 110v it will be PAINFULLY slow to heat up and to run. There are two physical things that can slow down a run:

HEAT:
If your condenser is working perfectly but your boiler isn't gutsy enough to produce enough vapour to feed the condenser then it will be slow. You need to be producing just below the maximum vapour that your condenser can condense if you are looking for a fast stripping run. If you have never had warm/hot distillate from the output then you have never found the limit of your condenser.

COOLING:
If you have been running the still and you have had hot distillate from the output or you have steam/vapour from the output then you definitely need to either turn down the heat or build a bigger and better condenser.

[raketemensch]

If you're running at 110, you can just wire that sucked up directly, a PID isn't going to speed things up.

Going to 220 after that is just the best feeling.

[Saltbush Bill]

Some photos of this still would be helpful . Some of the things people are calling reflux stiills and column stills these days are really misleading.....some are little more than pots with a tiny bit of reflux. Unless people start using the correct terminologies for things its really hard to answer questions correctly.

[Yummyrum]

Some photos of this still would be helpful . Some of the things people are calling reflux stiills and column stills these days are really misleading.....some are little more than pots with a tiny bit of reflux. Unless people start using the correct terminologies for things its really hard to answer questions correctly.

Amen to that Salty
Alas a lot of beginners don’t know the correct names . Pictures save a lot of missinformation

[Saltbush Bill]

It seems to be getting worse lately Yummy .....in many cases its not the Newbies fault , some of the less scrupulous still building company's seem to think they can market anything as a reflux still or a column still.
It seems to me to have got even worse since the Chinese are starting to try to muscle in on the market.
Other than a few of the older forums the internet abounds with shit still designs and shit information on distilling.
Rant over

[Smeg]

index.jpg (11.34 KiB) Viewed 4350 times

[mjrbuzz]

sorry it took me so long to reply, i will for sure switch to 220 for the next run.

currently i am running as a pot still "no packing for reflux" as i wasn't really happy with the fuel i was getting and also i am in the process of learning and want to try different things.

[Saltbush Bill]

Im having a hard time working out how that can turn into a reflux still, just looks like a simple pot to me. Where and how does the reflux condenser fit?
It might be a good idea to put a prop of some sort under the liebig to take some of the weight of the hoses and water, could save you some drama in time to come.

[mjrbuzz]

sorry if my vernacular is incorrect, i was under the idea that adding packing to the column would add passive reflux. it did raise the abv quite a bit but then again i wasn't using the controller correctly, and it took 2 days to run 10g. but i believe i have part of that issue worked out.

please correct me on the issue because i do want to learn and be a better hobbyist and not sound like a dumb ass.

[Saltbush Bill]

A reflux still needs a reflux condencer to work properly, putting a bit of packing in a pot stills column wont achieve much at all, you may get a tiny bit of passive reflux but that's about it. From memory Yummy Rum did some experiments a while ago regarding packing pot still columns.
Maybe someone will find the link to that for you.
So now that we know that what you have is in fact a pot still we can have a crack at answering the original question.

i am finally getting comfortable running my 2" column still. enough so that i would like to increase the rate of flow so it wont take quite as long to make a run.
The only way of increasing the rate of flow is to up the amount of power / heat you are throwing at the boiler.
Pots stills by their very nature need to be run reasonably slowly , a pencil lead size stream seems to be the most commonly used speed. Having said that some go faster and some go slower.
1/2" in pipe that uses a 1" jacket as a condenser.
my question is if i loose the 1/2" and run everything in 2" with a shotgun type condenser will i be able to increase the speed of the run?

What you have there is a Liebig condenser ....it should be quite adequate for your pot still....a shot gun would just be overkill / expense and work for no gain in my opinion.

[HDNB]

220 will cure the only problem i saw.

keep you expectations in line though, you are still gonna be 4-7 hours when running proper heat

4-7 LPH stripping and about 3 LPH on a spirit run is all you are going to get, plus heat up time.

[Yummyrum]

From memory Yummy Rum did some experiments a while ago regarding packing pot still columns.
Maybe someone will find the link to that for you.
.

This Salty
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=71451#p7532524
In regard to passive reflux with packed column , I found it wasn't as amazing different as some might lead you to believe . Seemed to be a slight fores compression but that was about it .

As far as your setup goes , more heat will produce a faster output but the liebig will limit the speed ....not because its 1/2'" but because of its length.
Sure a shotty will allow a faster output as it can handle more power but so will a longer liebig , but you might want to go 3/4" if going longer than 4' .

But speed is really only beneficial during a stripping run . As has been said , for a spirit run you still need to run slow and on about a 2/3 full keg , around 2-3 liters an hour is about the ball park

Getting back to your setup ,......just a safety issue I spotted ,..... you might want to seriously consider re-heating the solder connection to the liebig and twisting it 180 deg so the coolant lines "hang" down rather than fold over like in your pic . Hot water in the exit coolant line will soften the plastic hose causing it to kink and stop the flow . This is bad . Oh and it happened to me yesterday BTW , hose got soft and bent , fell out of coolant tank and kinked over . Neck minit....steam pissing out the liebig .

Pleased I was next to my still when it happened .

[mjrbuzz]

thank you all for the help, i'm so glad that yall are willing to take your time and experience to help people new to the craft like me. i will flip the condenser around and set up for the full 5500w this weekend. shooting for a rye mash and gonna get sticky haha. thanks again.

[HDNB]

really looking forward to hearing about the rte mash! keep us posted.

[StillerBoy]

shooting for a rye mash and gonna get sticky haha.

Not if you Sebflo Tl enzymes..

you might want to seriously consider re-heating the solder connection to the liebig and twisting it 180 deg so the coolant lines "hang" down rather than fold over like in your pic

Or hang up the hoses on a support guide so that the hoses don't hang down on their own..

Mars

[raketemensch]

Once you get up and running, a simple experiment on passive reflux would be:

1) Do a normal stripping run and track your ABV
2) Do the same again, but with a fan aimed at the column

I've been wanting to try this for ages now, but I don't run a pot column since I built the flute.

[kimbodious]

Put a layer of insulation around your boiler. Leave about a 3/4” gap all round between the boiler and insulation. You will get quicker heat up and greater efficiency during the run.

I have a 20” long 2” shotgun condenser on my pot still and get 3.5 litres oer hour on a stripping run, with the 2200W element at full power 240AC

[Saltbush Bill]

I have a 20” long 2” shotgun condenser on my pot still and get 3.5 litres oer hour on a stripping run

A shot gun of that size with 5 tubes in it will do 15L an hour if required ....but why would you need that on a 2 inch pot ?

[kimbodious]

I have a 20” long 2” shotgun condenser on my pot still and get 3.5 litres oer hour on a stripping run

A shot gun of that size with 5 tubes in it will do 15L an hour if required ....but why would you need that on a 2 inch pot ?

I am using recirculating cooling water from a inground pool where the water is already 30C. The 8” long shotgun condenser version was only just managing under those conditions. The 8” condenser managed the job easily with tapwater but I choose to use recirculated water. Price difference between medium and long condenser was not alk that great so I chose to over-engineer my solution particularly if I I ever upscale boilers and columns.

[Yummyrum]

I have a 20” long 2” shotgun condenser on my pot still and get 3.5 litres oer hour on a stripping run

A shot gun of that size with 5 tubes in it will do 15L an hour if required ....but why would you need that on a 2 inch pot ?

Stripping runs Salty . I’ll strip on gas at 15-20 Lph easy on my 2” potty just to get the damn job out of the way .
But tou are right when it comes to spirit runs More than 3 lph is yuk.

[HDNB]

I have a 20” long 2” shotgun condenser on my pot still and get 3.5 litres oer hour on a stripping run

A shot gun of that size with 5 tubes in it will do 15L an hour if required ....but why would you need that on a 2 inch pot ?

Stripping runs Salty . I’ll strip on gas at 15-20 Lph easy on my 2” potty just to get the damn job out of the way .
But tou are right when it comes to spirit runs More than 3 lph is yuk.

wish i had ground water for cooling. on recirc my 2x20" shotty craps out, or rather steams out at 17 amps...just over 7LPH...maybe 8 LPH if i'm lucky. mebbe i should shovel some snow in there.

[Saltbush Bill]

I’ll strip on gas at 15-20 Lph easy on my 2” potty

Must be sticking some gas up that Keg Yummy. Much over 15L an hour and my strip starts getting warm.....more water pumped through faster would fix that.
Guess I just meant that a lot of people probably dont have the need to strip at those speeds.

[Yummyrum]

You are right Salty . Distillate is warm around 35-40 °C IIRC but I use my 1” over 3/4” Liebig which has a 1.7m shell ( just over 5.5’) . And yes again , flames are just starting to lap up the sides . I have pushed it to 30 liters a minuate just to see if it could but the flames were ridiculously lapping up the sides and I quickly turned it back down . One of the reasons I have such a long liebig is to keep the collection end as far away as possible from the flames .

BTW , fast stripping is only really useful on sugar washes . Medium speed on mollases washes and slow speed on grains due to puking .

[Saltbush Bill]

I have pushed it to 30 liters a minuate

Wow that an achievement

[Yummyrum]

I have pushed it to 30 liters a minuate

Wow that an achievement

Yeah that sounds like I’m pulling my plonker .
I no way endorse such stupid speeds on a gas fired keg

It was just an experiment I was wanting to try to see if there was any limitation to speed due to the size of pipe I was useing and thought it relavant to OPs question

my question is if i loose the 1/2" and run everything in 2" with a shotgun type condenser will i be able to increase the speed of the run?

As it pretty much proves the point that size isn’t going to limit speed on any still thats operated in a typical way that we would safely use it .