Putting two kegs together

[goinbroke2]

So, been away forever and ran low on likker. decided to run a bunch more and that got me thinking about the site so I'm back.
running a bunch of batches in a 57L keg was the cats ass before, now its taking too much time as I've got a million other projects on the go. (also why I've been gone so long)

so while running my one keg (4500W as a pot) I decided to chop up a couple of other kegs and make a 100L still. Main reason is, I ferment in 4 30L pals, that gives me about 20L of wash per bucket (or so) which means I charge with two pails, run low wines, charge two more pails, run more low wines and then when I have enough low wines run a spirit run. All fine and dandy. However, I want to run all four pails at once to save time.
So, here's what I got done so far;

[goinbroke2]

Welding in the bung

[goinbroke2]

The TIG welder I'm using and now cutting the first keg.

(yes its a tig, yes my welds look like bubblegum...I'm not Correne, get over it)

[goinbroke2]

Still cutting away...

[goinbroke2]

Assembled and bubble gummed....(I'm getting better...really I am)

[goinbroke2]

Check for leaks, pressure test, then add the coupler and tap on the bottom.

[goinbroke2]

Haven't used the TIG much (really? lol) but when using it for small stuff it comes out awesome. Of course I know some of my issue is the angle of the "torch" as well as trying to run the puddle without adding filler. That works fine in smaller jobs but I should of realised for strength I needed to add filler. Going back, adding later, now its more like bubble gum...can't win.

one question for Correne if you're out there;
When I was done welding the two halves together I realised I didn't put any gas into the kegs. This means I'll probably have crystalising or whatever its called huh? Is that bad? (strength and spirits)
Will it effect the likker inside or will it cause rusting etc?

On another topic, I need a 5500W element now but of course they don't just sell them at home depot in Canada, that would be too simple. So I guess I'll have to get it from a brew place in Ontario for a lot more than if it was local. Already am running the controller from still dragon so that's all good.

More to follow as I go...

[Expat]

On another topic, I need a 5500W element now but of course they don't just sell them at home depot in Canada, that would be too simple. So I guess I'll have to get it from a brew place in Ontario for a lot more than if it was local.

Yeah, Depot in Ont is crap for selection; Got mine on Amazon, shipped free.

[corene1]

Yes, the oxidized area will be more susceptible to corrosion over time. I don't believe it will affect the spirit itself . Sanding the area and passivization will certainly help the affected area. Also when you sand or prep your stainless make sure you do not use any grinding tools that have been used on ferrous metal. It will put carbon into the stainless causing rust as well.

[goinbroke2]

Prep?.......uh oh.....well, I guess I did prep one keg as it had residue from the insulation wrap, I just sand blasted it. In hindsight..yeah, fail.

So, now that I'm going to go back over it to "clean it up" and fix a pin hole, what should I do? Wire brush?(sand blast?) I used a chipping hammer to get some slag that built up in spots. I don't have a dedicated wire brush, I guess I can get one. Is the sand blasting really bad? What if I cleaned it after with brake clean or some other alcohol based product?
Mmmmmm, alcohol....crap, where was I?

Thanks for the assistance Correne!

[corene1]

I think sandblasting would be OK if you follow by high pressure air to clean all the crevices out. You are a race car guy so I know you have metal burrs for you air grinder. I use them all the time at work for prepping a surface, they leave no residue. Always good to have dedicated tools for stainless. Just mark them with a pen and set them aside.

[cob]

it looks like this needs a bump.viewtopic.php?f=33&t=13481&p=6878092&hi ... r#p6817904

I can't get the pdf to open but it says that chlorinated brake cleaner and welding can create toxic gas.

anyone have a good link to this info?

[Desvio]

it looks like this needs a bump.viewtopic.php?f=33&t=13481&p=6878092&hi ... r#p6817904

I can't get the pdf to open but it says that chlorinated brake cleaner and welding can create toxic gas.

anyone have a good link to this info?

Knew I've heard this before a long time ago welding, not a favorable outcome if you successfully combine the chemicals.

The active chemical in the brake cleaner is tetrachloroethylene. When this chemical is exposed to excessive heat and the gas argon, which is used in MIG and TIG welding, it produces phosgene. Phosgene gas can be fatal with a dose as little as four parts per million: basically a single small puff of smoke.



Source: https://www.motorstate.com/careful.htm

[goinbroke2]

Holy poo! Thanks guys, never knew that! Use brake clean on everything in the shop, obviously not in the welding shop though now.

[goinbroke2]

I think sandblasting would be OK if you follow by high pressure air to clean all the crevices out. You are a race car guy so I know you have metal burrs for you air grinder. I use them all the time at work for prepping a surface, they leave no residue. Always good to have dedicated tools for stainless. Just mark them with a pen and set them aside.

Great idea, got tons of burrs, ferrous and alum. I'll mark a new one for SS.

[goinbroke2]

Just went in the shop (too busy to work in there though) and wrote down some info;
Straight argon gas
Balance of cleaning 3 (as per book)
Post flow 9 (as per book)
Set to DCEN (Direct Current Electrode Negative as per book)
20 cfl flow (book calls for 13-15)
Torch cup size 7

Using 2% lanthanated 1/8" x 7" and ground to a point lengthways


So, all that said, I have to slow down the gas flow and bring the stick back into the torch some. The rest is just practise I guess.
Just realised I forgot to say what I'm using for filler rod, its 1/8" and on the box it said "for welding SS" so that should be good.

Thanks for the help Correne, on here and PM's.

When I get back in there I'll try to take more pictures. Tomorrows Friday and then I'm off for a week so this project might sit till I get back. Stuck behind a computer running the shops here I need an outlet so I have "dinner time projects". Got my 2" SS shotgun condenser mostly done but its about 6' long and I'm going to modify it to a more reasonable length. Plus I did most of it last year with silver solder because I didn't have the TIG yet...anyway, that's for after the kegs are done.

[goinbroke2]

SUCCESS!!
What a difference when the machine is set up properly!

Cleaning up the bubblegum now.

I'll start a new thread on the shotgun condenser...actually I think I might of started one last year or so when I started it...regardless, onward!

[RunRufusRun]

You can use brake cleaner, just make sure that the can says non-chlorinated. I use it frequently around aluminum gmaw welding which is quite hot and uses high shield gas flow rates.

I would just like to suggest using a smaller filler metal, 3/32” or even 1/16” filler of 308l alloy might help out with some of that bubblegum. Also a smaller electrode could be used since your welding a thin material.

[Fruit Squeezer]

I gave up brake clean a long time ago in my shop.
I use denatured alcohol in a spray bottle instead.
It evaporates quickly, the vapors are less toxic, and cancer concerns from skin contact are less.
Plus, it's cheaper by volume and who doesn't like the smell of strong hooch while working?

Make sure you're using PURE argon or hellium.
Alot of weld shops are selling argon/c02 mix, which works great for aluminum, but is a disaster on stainless.

[RunRufusRun]

In most instances you would be disappointed if you used anything but inert gas when welding aluminum with either gtaw or gmaw. On the other hand you could make a decent gmaw with an argon/co2 mix on stainless steel.

[goinbroke2]

Thanks for the tips guys.
I'll try to add some pictures off of my iPad. I pulled a metal tv/vcr stand from the metal dumpster, nothing wrong, they just didn't want it anymore. I thought hey, that would make a nice roll around stand for the still!

So, let's see if this works....

Hey it worked! Cool! That's the drain coupling I put in the bottom of the keg(s).

[goinbroke2]

Ok, here is the stand. I cut a hole in the top and a small hole on the second shelf for the drain to go through.
I put the valve on and a nipple that I can hook a garden hose to. The garden hose will be stored behind the closed doors when not in use. The final picture shows the 3" column full of moon rocks I made last year. I'll probably mount that to the side of the cart as well as the shotgun condenser.
Everything all tidy and able to wheel out of the way when not in use.

Ah poop, I have to resize these pics.

Give me a minute...

[goinbroke2]

Ok, lets try this again...

[goinbroke2]

Crap, I forgot they upload in reverse sequence...oh well, you get the idea.


Camera sucks too...

Next is order the 5500W element and pull the still dragon controller off the other still and mount it on this one.
I cant do that too soon though as I'm going to run this one upstairs in my new garage and I don't have the 220 wiring or the water and drain pipes ran yet.
-9 right now so I won't be running water pipe any time soon! LOL!

More updates to come....

[BamaBill]

Great post. I plan on welding two kegs together myself in the very near future. I'll run one element on full power and a second element on a controller. I already have a shotgun condenser. I run a pony keg for a thumper.
Thanks for sharing.

[corene1]

Just my thoughts on TIG welding thin Stainless and other metals. For Tig welding thin stainless such as a keg I would opt for 3/32 or 1/16 electrode 1.5% Lanthanated ground to a sharp conical point lengthwise at a 60 degree angle. I use a #8 cup for open flat welds and 90 degree fillet. I will only go smaller if a tight working area mandates it. I always use 100% Argon shielding gas . As for filler rod make sure you know what the alloy of the base metal is. 308 will typically cover most but if you have 316 base material use 316 filler. There was mention of 309 in a previous post and it works well for SS to dis similar metals and 304 types of stainless but it will not work well with 316 as 316 requires molybdenum and 309 has none. For thin metals with a poor fit I use 3/32 filler , for nice tight fits I use 1/16 filler. As mentioned before set welder to DCEN and flow meter to 20 cfh for an open shop. If you have a protected area lower it a bit. Too much flow can draw in surrounding atmosphere and contaminate the weld puddle, so the case of more is better does not apply here. Use a nice tight arc and get the base metals just starting to show a puddle then fill with filler go slow with gentle heat working from base to base joining the filler into the puddle. For kegs I run in the low to mid 60 amp maximum. If you can always try to purge the vessel with Argon.
For running stainless wire you can use 75% argon 25% co2 but it is hard to hold the arc stable and is very messy, lots of spatter. I use a trimix of 90% Helium-7.5% Argon-2.5% co2. The down side to high Helium blends is the cost. Helium is expensive, but the finished product is worth it in cleanup time for production work. 75-25 is also a great gas for ferrous metals with very small cleanup of welds compared to pure co2.
For Aluminum TIG and wire stay with pure Argon. It is reasonably priced and makes very clean welds. For TIG aluminum you will run ACEP with the starter spark on and your tungsten tip should be a conical shape with a ball tip.
Again just my thoughts and experiences.

[RunRufusRun]

I agree with most of corene’s statements. But gtaw aluminum uses alternating current (AC). AC has no polarity so the plus and minus signs on your welder are irrelevant when welding AC. Actually some welders have the gas supply flowing through the dcen port on the welder so you would need to have your torch in that port or you will have no gas flow. One other thing is that not all tungsten will have the conical ball point when welding AC, but pure tungsten will. Lanthanated works well on most materials and can maintain a sharpened point while welding aluminum.

[corene1]

I agree with most of corene’s statements. But gtaw aluminum uses alternating current (AC). AC has no polarity so the plus and minus signs on your welder are irrelevant when welding AC. Actually some welders have the gas supply flowing through the dcen port on the welder so you would need to have your torch in that port or you will have no gas flow. One other thing is that not all tungsten will have the conical ball point when welding AC, but pure tungsten will. Lanthanated works well on most materials and can maintain a sharpened point while welding aluminum.

True straight AC is an 50/50 equal oscillating current, but you can use your balance control to increase the positive wave and decrease the negative wave for better cleaning action on the weld puddle. I run 80% positive and 20% negative on aluminum. As far as the ball tip on the tungsten I have never seen one that doesn't have a ball tip after even a single pass. I can start with a point and the first arc creates a ball. I have used pure tungsten, 2% Thoriated , 2% Ceriated . 1.5% Lantthanated, and a couple other samples that the welding supply salesman has given me to test. Love to see a picture of Lanthanated that has been used on an aluminum weld that doesn't have a ball on it after use. I will investigate what you are saying but for the last 40 years mine have had ball points for aluminum. Just a little reference video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWJt3fFJ6Hk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[goinbroke2]

Lol! Now I know how people feel when they say "what camshaft should I get for my car" and I spend an hour explaining in intricate detail the working of a cam and why you need certain things and....! Lol! Thanks everyone, biggest difference I found was using a new (SS only) wire brush to clean with and keeping a sharp point on the electrode. And of course experience. Been only at it a couple days and the welds are night and day. It really is just like torch welding, but with electricity instead of oxy/acet.

Sitting in the basement running a batch right now, on vacation...life is good.

[goinbroke2]

above I said my balance was set at 3. (That's what the book says for SS) I didn't know that was the balance of each leg of the electricity but obviously that makes sense. But if that's the case, how would that work in dc? It should 100% if it's dc, otherwise if the current is balancing + and - that's ac...no?