Vaper Temperature & ABV at 5500'

[Johnnywhiskey]

I'm thinking about my next distillation project and realized that since I moved from essentially sea level to 5500' the process I have developed is going to be out of whack.

My strategy has evolved to rely on monitoring my head temp to get ABV info which is useful for setting refux and monitoring the stage of the distillation (I also have a probe in the boiler to monitor temp and loosely what ABV is left there too). But since I'm now 5,500' boiling is no longer 212F, its more like 202F, and the vapor % of ethanol and water is going to be similarly shifted to a lower temperature also.

Does anyone know if a good reference vapor temperature v. ABV that also take into account higher than sea level altitude (low pressure than sea level)? I hate to just swing in the dark, but I suppose I could guesstimate everything is shifted 10F cooler than at sea level. Having survived P-Chem in my youth I know there is a formula that would work this out--that I'm sure I forgot it for the final. I do have a parrot and a hydrometer too, but I've found the vapor temperature to much more accurate than a hydrometer, which must be corrected for temperature and is much slower to equilibrate.

Stay Thirsty, JW

[Saltbush Bill]

My strategy has evolved to rely on monitoring my head temp

If you stick to traditional methods of running a still you never have to worry about that sort of thing.
Learning to run a still using temp and other gadgets makes you reliant on them in the end. New still , new location, different sort of still or any combination of those and you have to learn all over again.
On the other hand your senses go with you when you move, don't take up any room, and don't change much at different altitudes.

[bluefish_dist]

Doing lots of distilling at 6200 ft, I just found my temperatures by trial and error. As you found water boils at about 200 and alcohol about 164. I also found that weather changed the alcohol temp by +/-.5 deg.

As you do I found temperature for a column was very useful for process control and gives a good idea of what is going on the in the column. Far quicker response than a parrot.

[Pesty]

Moved up to the mountains and yeah my baking is wacked but the still runs on flavor and smells

[Mr Sippy]

Does anyone know if a good reference vapor temperature v. ABV that also take into account higher than sea level altitude

For pressure other than sea level I think you have to go the thermodynamic route. Here is one calculator https://checalc.com/solved/binary_vle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Select the Wilson model and Binary pair (ethanol/water) and set the pressure to 0.82 bar (5500 ft). You also have to convert your abv to molar volume. Then slide the cursor along the blue line of the T xy diagram until x= your molar volume. The bubble (boil) temp is displayed. Move the cursor horizontal till it hits the red line and the dew (vapor) temp is displayed.

Hope this helps

[Johnnywhiskey]

Does anyone know if a good reference vapor temperature v. ABV that also take into account higher than sea level altitude

For pressure other than sea level I think you have to go the thermodynamic route. Here is one calculator https://checalc.com/solved/binary_vle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Select the Wilson model and Binary pair (ethanol/water) and set the pressure to 0.82 bar (5500 ft). You also have to convert your abv to molar volume. Then slide the cursor along the blue line of the T xy diagram until x= your molar volume. The bubble (boil) temp is displayed. Move the cursor horizontal till it hits the red line and the dew (vapor) temp is displayed.

Hope this helps

Yes, that is about what I'm looking for. I wonder if there is a way to get a .CSV or .XLS file that I could convert from mole ratio to ABV?

My strategy has evolved to rely on monitoring my head temp

If you stick to traditional methods of running a still you never have to worry about that sort of thing.
Learning to run a still using temp and other gadgets makes you reliant on them in the end. New still , new location, different sort of still or any combination of those and you have to learn all over again.
On the other hand your senses go with you when you move, don't take up any room, and don't change much at different altitudes.

I appreciate the sensor aspect of distilling, and its value. However there is nothing wrong with collecting more information while you distill. Everybody checks ABV at some point, so why not get the information as you are running the still? I plan to apply all of my senses while distilling, why not also use some science. Also it has been common practice for distillers to monitor head temperature for the last 200 years. Head temperature is part of the traditional distilling method.

Stay Thirsty, JW

[Saltbush Bill]

Also it has been common practice for distillers to monitor head temperature for the last 200 years. Head temperature is part of the traditional distilling method.

I'm always keen to learn about the ins and outs of still operation, Id love to hear more about how head temps were monitored 100 years and more ago.
Please tell me what you can about this, or provide some links to information about that subject if you can?

why not also use some science.

Because as your original post implies the science is what is causing you to scratch your head and it serves no real purpose.......do away with that and you don't have the problem to begin with.
Each to their own I guess.

[Mr Sippy]

I wonder if there is a way to get a .CSV or .XLS file that I could convert from mole ratio to ABV?

In most endeavors; there are "the art" and "the science" of it. Embrace both, reject neither

On the Conversion of Alcohol r1.pdf

(715.62 KiB) Downloaded 139 times

[Johnnywhiskey]

Also it has been common practice for distillers to monitor head temperature for the last 200 years. Head temperature is part of the traditional distilling method.

I'm always keen to learn about the ins and outs of still operation, Id love to hear more about how head temps were monitored 100 years and more ago.
Please tell me what you can about this, or provide some links to information about that subject if you can?

why not also use some science.

Because as your original post implies the science is what is causing you to scratch your head and it serves no real purpose.......do away with that and you don't have the problem to begin with.
Each to their own I guess.

A good review of whiskey making in the US is Bourbon Empire by Mitenbuler. Also anything about the history of Dr. Crow. The Coffey still was invented in 1830 ( though it was not the first continuous still used in the US) and by the Civil War was used to produce a vast majority of whiskey in the US. The way you run a continuous still is by the head temperature to determine the cut you are going to get. But even out side of the continuous still, I can guarantee any trained distiller running a still larger than a hobby still is going to monitor the head temperature—event “traditionalist” Scotch, Cognac and Rum makers. Certainly if you are refluxing, you want to know the head temperature.

And calling pot distilled single malt scotch traditional whiskey is not really accurate.

https://vinepair.com/articles/best-sing ... h-history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

What we call single malt scotch was traditionally blended with continuously distilled base whiskey. Just like today, 100 years ago a pot still was the exception, and a continuous still was the rule.

I just have to laugh a bit every time I read a post waxing poetically about romantic traditional methods. Distilling has been a science for a very long time. The distillers born in the 1800’s were just as smart as we are, and used all the tools they had available to perfect their craft. I’d like to know where all the information these traditional methods come from. What is the cutoff date to call something traditional?

I’m not saying there is anything wrong with using whatever distilling method makes you happy, but I feel there has been a mythology built up around certain processes as “traditional” and better which I’m not sure is deserved on either accounts.

Stay Thirsty, JB