Oat,Wheat,Rye Whiskey/whisky

[StillerBoy]

I've not done anything with enzymes before, can anyone elaborate on what I need to use please?

If you were to take the time to read the thread properly, you would see that there is a post (up above some 6 or 7 post) on the liquid enzymes..

Please take the time read, not be so quick asking questions which have already answered..

Mars

[OtisT]

I've not done anything with enzymes before, can anyone elaborate on what I need to use please?

I use “SEBStar HTL” as my high temp enzyme. My local stores don’t carry it and I ordered in-line. I believe a 4 oz bottle will last ya for about 120 gallons of ferment (from memory, so check the label).

Otis

[Twisted Brick]

I too, use SebStar HTL and SEBAmyl GL and love 'em. Easy to use and effective on AG mashes.

There are guidelines for use, including dosage, temp range and pH.

You can find them here: Enzymash.com

[still_chillin]

I learned a very hard lesson this weekend while running this recipe... I have been a bit lazy cleaning the tower on my pot still. Some kind of funk had built up. It wasn't noticeable while running, but after airing the whisky out for a day, it developed a very bad odor. I went to smell my column and it had the same nasty smell and medicinal taste.
Anyhow, I let the whisky air for a couple of days. It is still medicinal tasting, but the funky smell is gone. I also ran it very slow (a drop every second) since I only wanted one run. No flavor or body came over at all.
Well, at least I have the sugar piggyback finishing up. I've cleaned the still and hope for better results. Lesson learned.

[dukethebeagle120]

I also recently did this recipe
Its good
The only thing is i got a husky type taste a bit
Like the dry husk from corn
I used whole feed oats
It taste like the husk a bit
But with some time it is going away
I never used whole oats before
Btw its smooth and silky
But yes all the above

[Daniel Baker]

Is there any reason to start the mash at 180 F and let it cool down to hit the rest points? I'm planning on a BIAB multi-step mash. I would like to rest at 113–118 F (beta-glucanase/protein rest), then 140–149 (lower saccharization temp favors fermentable sugars over non-fermentable sugars for a better yield). I have added some 2-row malted barley as a source of enzymes.

This seems to me like it should work well, but I've never mashed an all-adjunct (from a beer brewer's point of view) grain bill. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work?

[bentstick]

Nope no reason,but is not what I did,the recipe is here, play as ya will and enjoy your makins,this was something I was lookin for and found it,take it as far as ya will and post your results

[loadie2004]

Hello everyone.

I am looking for some advice.

I have been trying a version of this recipe and I am getting very poor SG. I thought it may be my mash tun set up so I "improved" it but it didn't help. So now I am looking for some advice.

This is what I am using.

3.4 lbs oats
2.0 lbs wheat
1.3 lbs malted wheat
2.0 lbs rye
1.3 lbs malted rye

I heated 5 gallons of water up to 180 F, add the oats, wheat and rye to my mash tun and pour the strike water in. This lowers the water temp to about 160 F. I added 1/2 tsp of Alpha Amylase, stir to make sure I don't have any dough balls, turn on my recirculating pump and let it sit for 90 minutes. After 90 minutes I add the malted wheat and malted rye and another 3 gallons of water to bring the temp back up to 160 F. I then let it sit for another 90 minutes recirculating.

I drain my tun into a carboy and sparge the mash until my carboy is full.

Once everything has cooled (usually the next morning) I test my SG. I have only been getting around 1.020. My last attempt only got 1.015. So I end up adding 2 kgs of corn sugar, my yeast (ec1118) and let it go.

I would really like to get an SG high enough so I don't have to add sugar.

All my grains are milled. No flakes.

Thoughts?

Todd

[fizzix]

Not enough initial heat and too short a time is my guess.
Get that water to a rolling boil and pour it onto your oats, wheat and rye, and insulate the bucket with blankets for 90 minutes.
Then let it come down to 180°F on its own, and pick it up from there. I betcha that solves the problem.

[Tummydoc]

How big is your carboy? You start with 5 gallons strike water, then add 3 gallons, then add spare water. You've got 8+ gallons of water but only 10 lbs of grain if I'm following this right. Usually shoot for 2-2.5 lbs grain/gallon of mash for a decent SG. I think your grain bill is too low. Get a thumper and make life simple. Ferment on the grain (no sparge), put the liquid in your boiler and slop in the thump. No straining or squeezing needed and not a single drop of alcohol wasted. I'll never use a paint bag, mop bucket, or 400 micron strainer again.

[gsugg]

Loadie,

I know lots of guys on here get great results with no boil methods, just pouring the boiling water on and letting it do it's thing. In my personal experience, I have to hold a slow simmer for about an hour to maximize my yields. (With corn change that to a rolling boil for a couple of hours!). Also, since I use home made malts, I use backup enzymes for insurance. The malts are there more for flavor than anything else. Without that slow simmer, seems I lose a 1/3 or more of my potential yield. Doesn't bother me to simmer it as I'm not trying to beat any speed records since this is after all a hobby! (Plus, I've got a drill powered stirring device I made so not much work. Kind of like the one Pint uses in his Youtube video teaching the use of enzymes on corn) Just what works for me.

Greg

[loadie2004]

How big is your carboy? You start with 5 gallons strike water, then add 3 gallons, then add spare water. You've got 8+ gallons of water but only 10 lbs of grain if I'm following this right. Usually shoot for 2-2.5 lbs grain/gallon of mash for a decent SG. I think your grain bill is too low. Get a thumper and make life simple. Ferment on the grain (no sparge), put the liquid in your boiler and slop in the thump. No straining or squeezing needed and not a single drop of alcohol wasted. I'll never use a paint bag, mop bucket, or 400 micron strainer again.

Tummydoc, My carboy is 6 gallons. I loose a lot of water to the grains soaking them up. I was wondering if my grain bill was too small, so I am glad you mentioned it. I may up it by 25% next time. I don't have the room for a thumper. Maybe someday.

[MichiganCornhusker]

loadie, I suggest you give us a little info about your background with 'stillin to be able to help you out here.
I don't see any post in the Welcome Center, that would be a good place to pop in and tell us a bit about yourself.

Based on what I see I have to say that it looks like you're just in over your head here.

This is a very good recipe. It makes a damn fine white whiskey, IF you follow this recipe. It is designed for mashing, fermenting, and stripping, on-grain.

Oats tend to be sticky.
Wheat tends to be sticky.
Rye tends to be sticky. Oh, an prone to scorch.

You could triple your grain bill and get your OG up to 1.060, maybe, and still meet with disaster when you try to strip the ferment.

Like I say, I don't know your background, not trying to bash you, just letting you know that this is not a good recipe for a noob to improvise on.

[mrblues4625]

I would love to do this but, I am having a hard time finding all the ingredients. I'm finding malted wheat and rye for around $25.00 per 10 lbs. so im looking at over $50.00 for just a part of the grains needed. Any one have a good sourcing for the ingredients needed?

[StillerBoy]

This a great white whiskey.. as for the price of grains, that's about right.. I've paid a little less, but much.. I think, and would have to check my grain order for the prices, but from the top of head, it was in the neigborhood of about 55$ for 5 - 5 gal batches..

Mars

[mrblues4625]

Is it worth the money and the work????

[Swedish Pride]

Is it worth the money and the work????

If you just want to get drunk, no it's not. Just get turbo yeast and make 20% sugar washes.

If you want a fine sipping drop and like rye, yes, deffo worth it

[Twisted Brick]

If you don't mind the work, try malting the wheat and rye at home. It's not difficult, and should cut your malt expense in half.

[mrblues4625]

I take pride in making the good stuff Swedish. I've seen a couple of videos on how to make tumblers for malting. One cool one from Bearded and Bored. I could use another toy in the shed!!!

[cayars]

I would love to do this but, I am having a hard time finding all the ingredients. I'm finding malted wheat and rye for around $25.00 per 10 lbs. so im looking at over $50.00 for just a part of the grains needed. Any one have a good sourcing for the ingredients needed?

Can you buy whole grains cheaper and malt yourself to save $? This is not only fun but once you get in the flow of it, can work out so that you can malt enough grains between ferments. Once you learn how to do this it isn't hard.

Can you mill yourself or have a heavy duty blender that will do the job for now?

While not exactly this recipe per say you can check you local super market for whole grain flour made from wheat and rye and use this as part of the unmalted portions to get your costs lower and get a "taste" of this true recipe. You'll have more work during the sparging but it costs you zero.

Have you checked or googled to see if there is any local or semi local malt houses in your area? Or whole grain operations?
For example anyone in my area can get a full load of wheat (pickup truck bed) for $50 but then need to clean it within 5 miles from my house.

Without giving to much info out, lets just say anyone in my area can get whole grains (2 row, wheat, rye) at about 50 cent per pound unmalted and about $1.05 per lb malted (9/2019). If the person can't mill themselves then add 3 to 5 cents per pound depending on grain for milling. The same exact grains are sold at local brew stores for $2+ per pound and usually at $2.50 or so.

So my point is to shop around and see if there are any local malt shops/farms or wholesale grain dealers near you. Or think about giving the recipe a "rough" try using flour for the unmalted parts.

All grains are more work then sugar washes but can be cheaper overall as "sugar washes" aren't exactly cheap when you know how to convert starches to sugars properly and offer a far more complex taste. This is especially true for "corn mashes" which isn't called for in this recipe.

Personally I don't find it worthwhile to malt corn or oats but barley and wheat are far better malted IMHO. Rye can be used malted or not depending on beer profile but that's just me.

So my point is to check and see if you have "alternate" sources of grains you can use and possibly malt yourself to lower costs.

At the end of the day you DO need to CALCULATE RETURN on oak vs cost but even with high costs I think you'll find the cost to be less then half of a good drop purchased from the local store. Knowing your drop can be much better in a couple of years on ageing hopefully plays into your calculations.

[madmace]

Maybe I missed it.
Anybody have a scaled down version of this say 5-10 gallon mash.
If so I’de appreciate it.
Happy distilling brothers
Stay safe

[HomerD]

Use 1/5 the amount of everything in the original recipe for a 7 gallon mash.

Homer

[StillerBoy]

Anybody have a scaled down version of this say 5-10 gallon mash.

This the scaled version that I've used to make Bendstick's..

The scale is for a 1 gal mash.. so for 5 gal just multiply by 5, so on.. and milled all the grains to coarse meal size, mashed high temp first part, and mashed malted one at 150*..

Oats.. .714 lb whole berries milled/crushed
Wheat.. .428 lb wheat berries / .285 lb malted milled
Rye.. .428 lb wheat berries / .285 lb malted milled

Then just follow the mashing process he used..

Mars

[Deplorable]

I see that you are NOT a noob.
One of the first things I learned it takes just a little more effort to make a large enough mash for 3-4 stripping runs for a good spirit run.

Plus, it'll keep for a while.
[/quote]

This was my thought given what I'm learning the more I read here while I wait for the brown van Santa.
My goal in this adventure is to make whiskey. Good whiskey. Not hoards of it, but enough to keep me happy and share with close friends. I figure I'll make 15 gallon mashes and run 5 gallons at a time through my 8 gallon boiler, combining the three stripping runs to make a final Spirit run. If I end up with 6 qts of pleasant 80 proof spirit from a 15 gallon mash, I figure I'm a winner. Otherwise it'll all be hand sanitizer, lighter fluid, and weed killer.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Got it cloudy after proofing down to 40%AbV. But I don't care: no charcoal, no cold filtration, no adding neutral alco to get it back transparent.

As good as is. Thank you bentstick, cheers!

[peach travis]

I had a go at this one recently. Due to the available malt I subbed in a bit of roasted wheat for the unmalted portion of the recipe. That gave the beer a beautiful dark toasty quality without any bitterness. Man alive the ferment smelled good.

Not sure I nailed the blends, it tasted wonderful off the spout and had a thick warm honey vibe to it. I let the jars air for 2 days and the keep cut seemed to get smaller over that time, which was surprising.

When I blended a narrow heart cut it was so neutral I thought it was a bit insipid, so added a bit of very late heads and very early tails (the tails seemed to bring a bit more rye spice over). Wondering now if I should’ve sat on the narrower cut and revisited it a few times before ruling it out.

The resulting blend was not up my wife’s alley (she has a great nose) but it tasted good to me, albeit definitely more aggressive than the first blend. I’ve got it ageing in a mason jar with an oak lid, no wood in the spirit, and I’ll revisit it in 6 months. I’m hoping the slight width on the cuts mellows out into some lovely flavours.

The other complicating factor is that I got crushed oats from a feed store and it took me a couple mashes to work out the crush was hopeless. They’ve since been milled twice at my local HBS but I’m yet to mash them.

Even with all those caveats, what a recipe, many thanks to bentstick. I’ll be making this again for sure.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Good report, Peachie. Wishing you to arrive at some really delish compromise with your SOH few months later.

[peach travis]

I had a go at this one recently. Due to the available malt I subbed in a bit of roasted wheat for the unmalted portion of the recipe. That gave the beer a beautiful dark toasty quality without any bitterness. Man alive the ferment smelled good….

blah blah blah

I said I’d revisit this in 6 months and I just spotted it in the back of the Lemur room where all my spirits are ageing so here we are.

It’s a nice drop already. My notes are as follows:

Nose:
Peanut butter
Petrichor
Cereal
Grass
Honey

Taste:
Peanut butter
Honey
Earthy rye spice

I don’t imagine it’ll need much more than a year, but I might just draw off a small bottle and wait and see if it does improve.

This recipe gets a slightly more energetic thumbs up from me now.

[Shiny Coke]

Aiming to try this out shortly but I'm curious on the rye grain to be used though. As a brewer I've used flaked rye and rye malt but something tells me its just regular rye grain from a feed store used. Is this right? My local feed store carries fall rye, is this the same or should I be using flaked? Thanks for the input in advance.

[Shiny Coke]

I like to ferment on grain and use my mesh bag and mop basket to squeeze the grains. (Edit - mashing for shine that is)

Edit - I'm more concerned if I can use the Fall Rye or not though.