Blue Distillate HELP

[Frosty36]

Hi all,
I know this is a familiar topic as I have seen the post from the past.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find the answer for my problem.
A little backstory- I am new to this, I am currently on my 4th batch of
apple shine mash. I have a 3 gallon pot still that was a gift for my
birthday. It has a condenser attached tot he top of it and the only copper
is the worm which is fairly small. (seeutek still for anyone interested)

The first 3 I made the mistake of using Turbo Yeast and then realized it
was producing a horrible taste. But, that's not my issue now. I ran my
first batch of apple brandy a few months ago and it immediately turned
blue. After some research I found learned the hard way that you're supposed
to do a vinegar run. (live and learn) I ran a 50/50 white vinegar and water
solution through it and it seemed to clean it right up. Next 2 batches were
ok minus the nasty flavor from Turbo Yeast.

Now, onto the current batch. I am using bread yeast and the gravity is
holding steady and a little lower, smells great and taste amazing. The
problem is it's been about a month since my last run and I decided to clean
my still with vinegar and water again. It came out electric blue and after
about 2 hours it turned to light blue. Was it a mistake to run vinegar
again?

I left it overnight with the water and vinegar solution in the worm to see
if that helps. I did this bc I found an old post in this forum that said
try that.
The worm is small and i cant seem to find a way to remove it so I just
stopped it up with a cork and filled it up.
I noticed if i just run water through the worm it comes out clean but the
moment vinegar touches it, blue.

I'm open to any help and thanks to everyone. This site is amazing.

[HDNB]

if you don't dry the worm between uses it's going to corrode a bit. the vinegar will liberate the corrosion better then water for sure. if it's got corrosion in it, whatever goes thru is going to pick it up. so dry between uses or use some acid or caustic to remove the corrosion and then flush thoroughly with water.

[Frosty36]

With the worm being so small and attached whats the best way to dry it out?
And do you mean run acid through it like i would a run?

[The Baker]

With the worm being so small and attached whats the best way to dry it out?
And do you mean run acid through it like i would a run?

Blow air through it?
Preferably warm.
And be careful not to use a compressor that can allow oil into the air.
MAYBE the modern ones don't? Dunno.
Or maybe suck instead of blow, using a vacuum thingy in a warmed air environment.
Just musing...

Geoff

[Frosty36]

Thanks for the reply. Its fairly small so maybe just set a blow dryer on it for a bit?

[kpex72]

Frosty, I don't know where you live, but letting it sit out in the sun for a few hours and it will dry up quick.. If it's small, toss it in the oven on the lowest setting for an hour.

[decoy]

I like the Vacuum cleaner idea of sucking instead of blowing.

You could also use a hair dryer on low or a air mattress blower.

[kiwi Bruce]

Blue Distillate AGAIN!!!
OK...I have personally answered this very question at least six times, I'm beginning to see why some of the longstanding members get truly pissed off with NUBEEs...please look at the top right hand corner of the page, do you see the little box named search and under it the words "Advanced Search" ? You do ? GOOD if you type Blue Distillate here you'll find all the responses that members have posted over the decades ;- to "Blue Distillate" ...
Passivation...copper has to be "Passivated" after cleaning, don't use vinegar (sorry HDNB) use any other organic acid, citric, malic, tartaric...use a teaspoon in a pint of warm water and wash everything down with this weak acid mix...
Copper metal has a lone electron on it's last electron ring that will react with ammonia, or acetic acid (vinegar) in the wash making the distillate blue and mildly toxic, Passivation with the mild acid allows two copper atoms to share their outer electrons making the copper corrosion resistant. Wet, dry or hanging from a sky-hook in you shit-house, it doesn't matter...Passivate after it's sat for several months or it's just been cleaned...and please in future use the search! and don't piss us old farts off...

[decoy]

Blue Distillate AGAIN!!!
OK...I have personally answered this very question at least ... snip.

Life is too short, it can be or is annoying but.., sometimes people are just frustrated and post more to let of steam or just a reason to post, its not going to stop the next guy from asking the same question.
Give others a chance to respond and exhibit there prowess at distilling theory, it all contributes to learning and more so when its repetitive

[HDNB]

, don't use vinegar (sorry HDNB) use any other organic acid, citric, malic, tartaric...use a teaspoon in a pint of warm water and wash everything down with this weak acid mix...

i didn't say use vinegar, i said when he used it, it would liberate the blue oxides better than water (or hootch.) i did say acid or caustic, but never offered instruction, so my bad.

personally my still never idles long enough to corrode but i do clean it once and a while with caustic followed by a good rinse...but then i fire up and the copper patina's right up to where it was.
and i never caustic it to death, making the copper shiny, just enough to get the oils and crud off but leave the patina.

good information on the chemistry behind organic acids though. assuming your right, that's an interesting difference that i never have seen before in a blue distillate thread! learned something new to try.

[kiwi Bruce]

I didn't say use vinegar, i said when he used it,

"I SEE!" said the blind man as he pissed into the wind "it's all coming back to me!"

[Frosty36]

Wasn't trying to step on any toes. I searched the boards, always do. But, as I said I'm new. Not just to distilling but to the workings of copper as well. Some of the terms are foreign to me. Never worked with copper before getting into distilling and I don't plan on quitting. The reason for my post was to get it into terms that make sense to myself and the next "newbie" that comes along who isn't fluid with the terms. Again, sorry to step on toes or piss anyone off.

[fizzix]

Wasn't trying to step on any toes. But, as I said I'm new....

We're going to have to ask you to quit being new.

[Frosty36]

Wasn't trying to step on any toes. But, as I said I'm new....

We're going to have to ask you to quit being new.

Thats why I'm here.

[HDNB]

piss anyone off? hell i learned something here. Thanks!

here's a free tip for later:
they say if you run a high PH (alkaline) wash you can get a really blue distillate too. personally, never have run anything that way so i don't have personal experience with it...but something to be aware of and another reason to watch your ph and temps as you work with grains.

i did add some caustic once to some clear 4 ph likker once and sure enough it got a bit bluish around 10 ph

[thecroweater]

Vinegar is good for ya first cleaning run and really chews into flux and oxides but for cleaning a bit of oxide of much out citric acid is a better bet then as folks say a little flushing goes a long way. Unless I got packing to scrub I don't go near any acid as you can clean pretty going with a plain ole water run, super heated steam cleans most shit without removing any protective layer and ya only need to run it for a few minutes but wait there's more water don't need to be flushed out and you can run it just before charging ya kettle, no mess no fuss with all new H2O

[Frosty36]

piss anyone off? hell i learned something here. Thanks!

here's a free tip for later:
they say if you run a high PH (alkaline) wash you can get a really blue distillate too. personally, never have run anything that way so i don't have personal experience with it...but something to be aware of and another reason to watch your ph and temps as you work with grains.

Lol...glad my ignorance has helped so many. I haven't messed with PH strips but I'm starting to think I should. Just get some on amazon?
So far I've just messed with fruit washes but I'm planning a corn run next time so hopefully the taste doesnt carry over.

I ran a vinegar run followed by a vinegar soak in the little coil I have and that seemed to do the trick. I have some citric acid but I'm not sure if I need it since my last run was clean. Should I soak it in some before running a corn spirit?

[still_stirrin]

...Should I soak it in some before running a corn spirit?

NO.

[MtRainier]

After a strip on the grain the bottom half or so of my copper column will get a bit black and stinky, so I go at it with just some water and a Scotch-Brite Dobie which is a gentle kind of sponge with a mesh cover. I usually buy them to get bugs off the car.

Most of the time I just rinse it with some warm water after the run to get the smell out and set it somewhere to dry out. I used to care about it being shiny copper and would drop it in a bucket with some citric acid from time to time, but it didn't make the output taste better. I figure the acid just makes it wear out faster. Most stuff just rinses off. If it looks fairly clean and it doesn't smell bad it's good.

[Frosty36]

Awesome. That's exactly what I've been doing. Just rinsing with water and drying with a hairdryer ( it's a small cooper coil). Thanks for the heads up tho.

[omarkeung]

If the consensus here is that you do not want to be constantly cleaning the copper to its original pinkish/orange luster, and you WANT there to be a patina on the copper, is the copper actually doing anything chemically to the distillate?

It would seem to me that a copper with a patina on it should be relatively chemically inert, as whatever "active binding sites" are present on the copper are being occupied by the "patina molecules"
. Therefore why would we insist on using copper as a material in still construction? I was under the impression that copper as a building material was favored because it actively binds to sulphur compounds (which we are attempting to remove from the distillate).

[contrahead]

If the consensus ........why would we insist on using copper as a material in still construction?

If there is such a consensus, that a dirty patina is preferable to a clean copper surface; then I am not part of it. Neither am I convinced that a simple vinegar run - will do much to clean the inside of copper tubing. It might remove debris and residual waxy soldering flux thought. Patina buildup is the result of chemical reactions with the surface of copper. Most of those interacting chemicals can be carried in the air too. Patina buildup is far more likely to occur on the exterior / outside, rather than on the inside surfaces of tubing, piping or packing.

If there is a consensus here, it is probably that at least an initial vinegar run is advisable, after the construction of a new still.

You dredged up a four year old thread on this subject (blue color). There are others, including this one which is more recent and which suggest that a vinegar (mild acid) run helps to passivate clean copper. (Or was that kiwi Bruce, in this same thread?). Others, aside from me, have suggested that a dirty riser – can bring about that undesirable 'blue' distillate. A riser or column can get dirty if and when a still “pukes” (boiling froth is forced up into the packing). Although I have used both sodium hypochlorite or sodium hydroxide to clean my still's packing if it gets dirty this way; another might suggest an additional vinegar wash.

But I don't feel any “consensus” on brown copper patina. The notion of early, clean copper passivization though, might make sense.