Botanical Charge Frozen in Water

[DetroitDIY]

So I'm using my home built botanical basket for the first time. I did not add a bypass valve to allow fores and early heads to go through with no interaction to the botanicals. And I got to thinking about how to protect them from these fores.

It occurs to me to take all my botaicals for the run and:

1) Find a plastic container that can fit inside my botanical basket.... (that would generally fill up the space, but not completely).
2) Fill the plastic container with my botalnicals.
3) Add a known volume of water to completely cover the botanicals (150 - 250 ml water perhaps).
4) Freeze all that solid before beginning the distillation.
5) Get the botanical ice cube out of the plastic and place that cube into your botanical basked at the beginning of your run. Slightly undersized ice cube should still allow vapor to get past and avoid a plugged system.
6) Allow the delta T latent heat in the vapor of the fores and early heads to melt the ice and release the botanicals, thus exposing the botanicals to the late heads and hearts without being substantially diminished in potency first by the nasty things you don't want.
7) Collect your regular amount of fores and early heads, plus the volume of water you added to you botanicals to make the cube, to be set aside.

Has this been attempted? Any experience or thoughts no this from knowledgeable botanical users?

Cheers!

[thecroweater]

This seems overly convoluted and would be difficult to time the thaw adequately with the income of hearts. It seems to me it would be more sensible and repeatable to first run your neutral, do your cuts and then after tempering add the finished spirit back to emptied kettle. In this way you won't waste any botanical extracts or end up with useable faints.

[DetroitDIY]

Good point Croweater. I definitely agree that there would be trial and error in how much water vs. how your system is running, and even if you hone in on it, repeatability seems questionable.

I'm interested in working on one and done, mostly for time sake. So while I certainly could re-run neutral, I would like to be able to use botanicals on the first shot. It seems if I find a neutral recipe that I like and get familiar with on my system, I'm going to have a decent idea where the hearts begin, and when to engage the botanicals. But that's all better done with a bypass valve than with ice.

[StillerBoy]

Detroit.. I have no idea how your basket is built, but it should be removable.. if so, then run off your heads, stop, then attached the basket, then restart.. should do what you want, one run and done..

Mars

[DetroitDIY]

Hey Mars! Yes, it's removable, but a bit cumbersome to do so. I essentially have to detach the PC with flexable plumbing and parrot attached. Everything's on tri-clamps, so I can do it, but would rather not in the middle of a run. Better that I plumb in a bypass and just throw a lever or two.

[shadylane]

I'm thinking, it might be difficult to get vapor past ice in it's path.


5) Get the botanical ice cube out of the plastic and place that cube into your botanical basked at the beginning of your run. Slightly undersized ice cube should still allow vapor to get past and avoid a plugged system.

[StillerBoy]

I could be wrong, but my thinking out of this process, said it will not work.. reason.. the ice will cause the vapours to condense, much in the same way a condenser does, thereby, your herbs will be expose to the heads once the ice has stop condensing the vapours..

Just my two cents, Detroit..

Mars

[Twisted Brick]

To me, gin botanicals are delicate and vulnerable to degradation as cell walls can break down in freezing temperatures. Also, the subsequent thawing inside a gin basket could cause a percentage of the volatile oils and essences of each botanical (aromatic herbs, oily citrus, dry spices) to leech out and downward in the thawing condensate, thus robbing your botanical recipe of valuable flavorings.

[NZChris]

I'm with Mars on this one. You will need some serious vapor speed to get anything out of the spout while the ice is protecting the botanicals. If you try that, make sure there is no way that the ice can be blown into the outlet causing a blockage.

[Mikey-moo]

Nice idea, very creative, but I can't see it working.

The ice will act like a reflux condenser, sending the foreshots back down the column repeatedly until all the ice is melted. At which point you're back at the start, or in fact worse off that you were, because before, the high volatiles only interacted with the botanicals the once before leaving, now the botanicals at the perimeter of the gin basket will be exposed again and again until all the ice is gone.

[Windy City]

Can we see a picture of your rig with the basket?

[DetroitDIY]

You can see the build and understand the design of my botanical basket from the first third of the posts on this link:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=65335&start=90

Getting the slightly undersized ice cube is no problem. I would just freeze the botanicals in a plastic cup that can fit inside my botanical basket, or in ice cube trays, or such. That's no biggy.

Perfect timing to have the ice melt as the end of the heads come across... that would be a trick. But as long as I protect the botanicals through the first 400 ml of take off or so, some in the heads shouldn't be an issue. It'll be better than what I would do now without a bypass... just let the fores wash the botanicals .

The ice would condense the distillate. Yes of course, and that's not a problem given the placement of my botanical basket, but I understand that it would for some designs such as a Carter Head, but mine isn't as fancy. I put the basket on the outlet side, just above the product condenser, so fores and melted ice all get collected and tossed.

Hope that makes a little more sense.

All that said, I think that ultimately a bypass valve is a better solution if you can design it in.

DetroitDIY

[thecroweater]

Hmm, I think maybe you should try it, I tend to think it will be a bit of a fail but I have been mistaken before.