Odin's Easy Gin

[raz]

I don't have access to a column, would running it through a pot still and making cuts help? I mean it's not bad-bad, but I can sense the difference compared to a good grain vodka. Maybe I worry too much and should just go with it.

The reason why I was thinking about steeping it into higher abv is that I want to run 5 liters and don't have a large enough glass container (I have a plastic one, but in no way I'm using it for this). I had the same concerns about extracting stuff I don't want, but was hoping I can get away with it. I'll play it on the safe side and get a larger mason jar or a demijohn.

Sugar wash is what was on my mind as well. My bad, just re-read what I wrote and I shouldn't have called it an NGA, I should have said just "neutral". I'll be taking it small steps, there's a lot of stuff I don't yet understand about grain mashes.

Thanks for the advice!

[Expat]

No problem.

I don't have access to a column, would running it through a pot still and making cuts help? I mean it's not bad-bad, but I can sense the difference compared to a good grain vodka. Maybe I worry too much and should just go with it.

Keep watering down and checking the sample until it gets to very low ABV. The lower it gets the harder for any smell to hide. Rub some between your fingers. If it's good you should only smell a lite sweetness. Yes if need be you could run it through a pot, water it down to 40% take only the best hearts cut for OEG.

[cayars]

raz if you are thinking of using something like Everclear 190 as the base forget about trying this. It's nasty and not like a vodka when proofed down. You would be better off just purchasing something like Smirnoff vodka at 80 proof and using that instead.

IMHO, if the "vodka base" you start with tastes bad then the gin will taste bad as well.

[itsskin]

Hi Odin and guys!

Chiming in just to say thank you for the work you have done. I'm hooked, my friends are hooked too now I started with low expectation, but even first batch came out super tasty, and I can't stop making it now

P.S. I actually had a question, but don't remember what it was. Back to gin

P.P.S. Remembered the question. Is diluting final 80% to 40-45% benefits the taste? Or it's just a waste in the fridge with more bottles?

[NZChris]

Hi Odin and guys!

Chiming in just to say thank you for the work you have done. I'm hooked, my friends are hooked too now I started with low expectation, but even first batch came out super tasty, and I can't stop making it now

P.S. I actually had a question, but don't remember what it was. Back to gin

P.P.S. Remembered the question. Is diluting final 80% to 40-45% benefits the taste? Or it's just a waste in the fridge with more bottles?

It's to protect idiots who think they can safely drink high proof.

[itsskin]

Let's say it's for me Will the taste differ if I dilute 45% vs 70% gin with tonic?

[itsskin]

And chemical question - why distill is crystal clear, but diluted to 40-45 becomes beautifully milky?

[Odin]

Milky means you got over more taste oils than can stay dissolved in lower proof alcohol (lower proof = lower solvency). A sign of something good, but ... better if it stays dissolved, so maybe bottle at 45 rather than 40%. Or dilute with some vodka or neutral. Pls don't drink it above 50%.

Regards, Odin.

[MtRainier]

I found this article fun on gin. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... ory-of-gin

Deep in the article the author goes to a boutique gin place and makes up a quick batch. The mandatory ingredients out of a menu of 26 botanicals were juniper, angelica, and orrisroot.

Very interesting. After a bunch of batches of OEG I've been conditioned to look for coriander and citrus and have always assumed that coriander was the second ingredient in pretty much everyone's gin, but I guess not.

Or maybe what they're saying is that you need those other two non-juniper elements in there as binders but you're free to experiment with the other stuff for actual flavor once you got the juniper?

[Odin]

At the basis, juniper and coriander form the heart of the gin. Any gin. They are responsible for the middle of palate flavors that hit you (after swirling a sip through your mouth and after swallowing it) for the taste and flavor from seconds 2 - 6. You add a bit of fruit peel for the fruity flavors, that hit you in the first second. And that could be the base to any gin, since it is a two dimensional, forward oriented drink. A nice mixer for G&T.

Juniper and coriander also serve a goal other than flavor, and that goes back to the history of gin, where you all know that it is a Dutch drink designed for sailors in the late middle-ages and beyond ... to help them keep healthy on very bad, old, salted and smoked food, after prolonged periods at sea. Juniper helps you piss. Coriander has protective qualities for the ligning of your stomach.

If you want to make your gin more three-dimensional - especially important as a sipper on its own - you add rooty and/or nutty and/or earthy herbs and spices. They make sure flavor remains in your mouth after second 6. Probably you can count till 10 or 11. Shouldn't be much more than that. After 10 to 11 seconds of swallowing taste should stop or your back-end flavors may overrun the primarily two dimensional character.

Angelica, but mostly oris root, is another ingredient of importance, because it adds flavor (angelica much more than oris root), but mostly because it binds flavors together and holds them in place. For gins that remain on the shelve a bit longer.

[cayars]

That's some good info Odin on building the complexity/taste of the gin.

Angelica, but mostly oris root, is another ingredient of importance, because it adds flavor (angelica much more than oris root), but mostly because it binds flavors together and holds them in place. For gins that remain on the shelve a bit longer.

I had trouble understanding that last part. It started out sounding like oris root was most important but than the "agelica much more" part.
Which one of those two is most important if you only could use one of them added to juniper, coriander, fruit peel for the 3rd dimension?

On a similar note, is there any common spices or herbs used in commercial gins that you dislike in gin and would never personally use?

[tubbsy]

That's some good info Odin on building the complexity/taste of the gin.

Angelica, but mostly oris root, is another ingredient of importance, because it adds flavor (angelica much more than oris root), but mostly because it binds flavors together and holds them in place. For gins that remain on the shelve a bit longer.

I had trouble understanding that last part. It started out sounding like oris root was most important but than the "agelica much more" part.
Which one of those two is most important if you only could use one of them added to juniper, coriander, fruit peel for the 3rd dimension?

I read it to mean that angelica adds much more flavour than oris root.

[cayars]

That's kind of what I think as well but the "Angelica, but mostly oris root" is what confused me.
I was just curious If Odin had added one of these two botanicals to the OP post (recipe) which one would be selected.

[Corsaire]

My understanding is that orris root works as a fixative instead of a flavour component.

[Odin]

Yes, it is. Some use Angelica, which has binding capabilities as well, but adds taste. Orris root has very little flavor. It is added as a binding agent. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Saltbush Bill]

Orris root has very little flavor.

Ive read a lot of stuff that says Orris has flavour, personally Ive yet to see that to hold true in my own gin making.

[NZChris]

My Orris jar smells beautiful, but the amount I use is so small that I don't even expect to taste it in the gin.

[SaltyStaves]

Yes, it is. Some use Angelica, which has binding capabilities as well, but adds taste. Orris root has very little flavor. It is added as a binding agent. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I read an explanation a very long time ago that Orris is the fixative that stops the aromas dissipating over time and Angelica stops them from dominating/cancelling one another.
Both fixatives, but doing different rolls.

[Odin]

I heard basically any herb being labelled as the best fixative in the last decade. I learned to call BS on most of them, if not all. I stay with orris root. It works. The rest, even Angelica, has less fixing to offer and/or at bigger downsides. My 2 cents.

[Saltbush Bill]

Ive read that there is no scientific evidence that even Orris works as a fixative, but its been used as such traditionally for a very long time in both the perfume and gin industries. Until I know for sure one way or the other I'll continue to use it.

[Odin]

I think that is a sound approach, SB!

[cayars]

I heard basically any herb being labelled as the best fixative in the last decade. I learned to call BS on most of them, if not all. I stay with orris root. It works. The rest, even Angelica, has less fixing to offer and/or at bigger downsides. My 2 cents.

Odin, so if you were to add 1 addition botanical/herb to the OP post would it likely be orris root? Or asked another way, for those wanting to expand out a bit from OEG what botanicals/herbs would you add next for a bit more complexity?

I asked another question a few post back I'd love to get an answer to from the Gin Master. Is there any common botanical/herbs used in commercial gins that you don't care for or wouldn't personally use?

[Odin]

For anyone wanting to elaborate on the recipe, well, based on my above posts that s quiet easy: go to the more earthy, rooty, nutty bits. Make a 2-dimensional drink 2.5 dimensional, by adding a bit of that backend, third dimension.

For this recipe try adding a little bit of cardemom. Around 0.1 grams per liter.

And, for education's sake, why would I suggest cardemon? Why not grains of paradise instead?

Go back a few posts, on dimensionality, and see if you can figure it out. Mistakes are good, because they'll serve as learning points ...

Odin.

[cayars]

The master gin maker answers a question with a puzzle.
I think Odin is a Gin Monk speaking in proverbs. LOL

I've got cardamon, have used & incorporated it, don't have grains of paradise and haven't used it so the answer to the puzzle is availability. Yea, I know flunked the answer.

I get the point of experimenting (and have been personaly) but sometimes it easier to just ask for guidance, aka lazy distiller syndrome or to prioritize some botanical over others as they can all add up $$$ buying them for small batches of a couple liter at a time.

Personally I was just hoping to get feedback on a few additional botanical/herbs to try and ones to avoid or test late in the game based on your feedback of the questions previously asked. It's all good, as you've given us a great base to start with which is the point of this thread.

[Odin]

Ingredients usually aren't bad per se, but most often are bad in combination with others.

Start with the base, which is juniper and coriander. Make a decision on the fruits at the front. Lime? Lemon? Orange? Based on that decision, there are certain herbs for the backend that you need to add or avoid. There needs to be balance between the front end and the backend flavors. If one is mellow, so should the other one be. If one is spiky, well, than the other should be as well, at the risk of otherwise creating an off-balanced gin.

Or go off the charts a bit and - given the season - make a Xmass gin. Use the base recipe, add 0.1 grams of anise and 0.1 grams of cinnamon. A great winter drink, derived from OEG.

Odin.

[cayars]

Thanks, and I think I'll make a 1 liter run with anise and cinnamon added and have a toast to you on Christmas day.
Thanks for all your gin knowledge and Happy Upcoming Holidays to you.

[Loosely]

Be careful with the cinnamon! For my first-ever gin I used a full stick in not a huge amount of wash. The result wasn't nasty, but it certainly tasted much more of cinnamon than juniper. And it was pretty good for Christmas ...

I still use cinnamon in my current recipe (which, wayyyy back, was Odin's) but only half a stick in 25 litres of wash.

But I encourage you to play with ingredients. The worst that can happen is you don't really like the result, but hey - you've got a still! Run the stuff through again to clean it up, then try again.

[gonzalocab]

Hello!! I'm a novice in distilling gin and after reading some pages of this topic, I have some questions about it.

First of all: What if I don't have 2 week for maceration? I was thinking about macerate 48 or 72 hs. Which is the effect of the lenght of maceration in the gin?

Second: If I add the botanicals in the boiler and then do the spirit run, without any maceration before, how much different would the final product be?

Last one: I'm using neutral alcohol (already cutted, only hearts), which is the maximun quantity of gin I could collect? This isn't very clear to me yet.

I hope to hear from you.

Happy Upcoming Holidays!

[Tummydoc]

Much of your question is answered in the first 10 posts of this thread.

[Saltbush Bill]

If you include cinnamon beware blending in the last jar or two.