Some linguistics for non-linguists

[VLAGAVULVIN]

May I address a bit strange question to the native BE, AE, CE, NZE and other native speakers, please?

"Jane's house, that we visited yesterday, is in terrible state" — what's wrong/odd in this expression from your own point of view?

First / intuitive / average opinions are highly appreciated.

Thank y'all..

[Twisted Brick]

Pardon my ignorance of BE, AE, CE, NZE (different country's form of English?)

The above expression is not odd, but is missing the following:

"Jane's house, that we visited yesterday, is in a terrible state" refers to the less-than-optimum condition (or state of affairs) that it is in.

Does that help?

[Yummyrum]

yes twisted , but it could also be taken that the state she lives in, is a terrible one. IE , if you hated bush fires , you might say Califonia is a terrible state .

Oh yes , the Enlish language is a complicated beast .

[Saltbush Bill]

The missing " a " would have been my pick also.
I was also going to point out that state could have two meanings....Yummy beat me there.

[cayars]

"Jane's house, that we visited yesterday, is in terrible state" seems fine to me just like:
Jane's house, that we visited yesterday, is in poor condition.

[FLOB]

To me, it reads like a direct translation to English from a different language like French or Spanish. So skipping the two meanings of state, the clause "that we visited yesterday" while grammatically correct isn't how it would most likely be written in the US.

We visited Jane's house yesterday and it is in a terrible state.

[cayars]

Which terrible state is it in? California, NY? The "a" may change the meaning of the sentence.
But don't listen to me. I'm the devil when it comes to grammar.

"We visited Jan's house yesterday and it sucks."

[pope]

I'm not a grammar teacher so I'd just say "We went to Jan's place yesterday, what a sh*thole." I know you've got a sense of humor so I can't tell if you're honestly asking or teasing, Vlaga!

[The Baker]

With a lot of expressions in English, and no doubt in other languages, there can often be more than one meaning. (Ambiguities).

Context is important.

Geoff

[Kareltje]

I am not allowed to answer this question as I am not an native speaker of English, but in my language it can be a normal question. Although a bit formal.
Interesting answers, though.

Posted at the same time as The Baker.
And indeed, several versions can be made.

[shadylane]

I can barely speak the language I was born to.
Anyone that's smart enough to speak more than one language
Has a leg up on me

[cayars]

I can barely speak the language I was born to.
Anyone that's smart enough to speak more than one language
Has a leg up on me

Same!

[shadylane]

What I could never wrap my head around
Was the syntax difference

[still_stirrin]

There —> a place, somewhere....where?....”there”,

Their —> a possessive...who’s is it?...”their”,

They’re —> a contraction for “they are”.

All pronounced identically and often misused in linguistics, especially these forums.

Too —> excessive, or also...too much sugar, or I drank too much too!

Two —> a number...2

To —> a preposition...to do, to go, to you, to me...or a place as in “a place to go to”

Again, all pronounced the same and often misused on these forums.

Granted, not all members have been trained in our English grammer, but some of us who have been still misuse the language flagrantly.
ss

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Okay folks, you have really helped, my thanx to everyone!

"Jane's house, that we visited yesterday, is in terrible state"

So, we nailed "a" down and back,,, but how about "which" instead of "that"?

And how do you finally feel about the version like that: "The Jane's house, which we visited yesterday, is in a terrible state" ??

= thankee =

in our English grammer

a nice joke

[HDNB]

my, vlagavulvin, you are a cunning linguist.

[metalsmith]

I am an engineer. English is my native tongue. I can’t comment unless you need heat transfer calculations.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

my, vlagavulvin, you are a cunning linguist.

Lol, I am ))

[VLAGAVULVIN]

I am an engineer. English is my native tongue. I can’t comment unless you need heat transfer calculations.

Where did you grow up with your tongue, please?

[The Baker]

"The Jane's house, which we visited yesterday, is in a terrible state"

Jane's house means the house of Jane.

The Jane's house is not the house of Jane. The Jane is not the same as Jane. The Jane is something, dunno what, but it describes the ownership of the house or the kind of house. Like if I said, 'The Russian's house', maybe?

And I know who Jane is but I do not know who or what 'the Jane' is.Confusing?

Geoff

[Yonder]

Vlaga, using “which” would call for a comma, while using “that” does not. As if anyone really gave a rat’s ass.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

And I know who Jane is but I do not know who or what 'the Jane' is.Confusing?

For me, it's not too confusing: 'The Russian's house' = the house of exactly that Russian person [which was contextually mentioned before]. Correct me?..

Vlaga, using “which” would call for a comma, while using “that” does not. As if anyone really gave a rat’s ass.

So, is it the only difference that/which (damn!) you folks can sense for the present moment / in the modern time of English?

[Twisted Brick]

There —> a place, somewhere....where?....”there”,

Their —> a possessive...who’s is it?...”their”,

They’re —> a contraction for “they are”.

No doubt, American English can be a challenge, but don't forget regional dialect (accent), potentially consistent with the diversity here on HD. Consider NASCAR owner Junior Johnson's post-race interview where he made the comment: "To know how we lost that race, all you have to do is look over they-ur at the tar's on that cow-ar." Yes, indeed.

OTOH, I forgot who (an old-timer like prairie piss or dnderhead) questioned it, but how did the Forum manage to butcher dephlegmator into deflag?

The Silliest Words in Whiskey

[OtisT]

"The Jane's house, which we visited yesterday, is in a terrible state"

Jane's house means the house of Jane.

The Jane's house is not the house of Jane. The Jane is not the same as Jane. The Jane is something, dunno what, but it describes the ownership of the house or the kind of house. Like if I said, 'The Russian's house', maybe?

And I know who Jane is but I do not know who or what 'the Jane' is.Confusing?

Geoff

This could be the family’s last name so it would be proper to says it the way it was written. Like saying the smiths’ house, meaning a house belonging to a family with the last name of Smith.

Or possibly Jane is so famous she is known as “The Jane”, like The Rock.

Otis

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Or possibly Jane is so famous she is known as “The Jane”, like The Rock.

Yepp: this is the James LaBrie that bla-bla-bla...

[Swedish Pride]

my, vlagavulvin, you are a cunning linguist.

wouldn't that be cunnilinguist ?

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Let's keep it secret

[shadylane]

No doubt, American English can be a challenge

That depends on the local accent and state of sobriety

[The Baker]

To speak American I hold my nose closed with my thumb and finger.
And pronounce every 't' within a word as a 'd'.

Geoff

[VLAGAVULVIN]

To speak American I hold my nose closed with my thumb and finger.
And pronounce every 't' within a word as a 'd'.

But then it's kinda non-rhotic South at best...