Condenser Controlled Columns

[Yummyrum]

Slow42 , most of the vapour condenses in the first 1” or so of the condenser coils and there is progressively less vapour left the further you go up the coil . By halfway up the coil , its basically all condensed . So even if there is a bit of Cooling coil sticking out the end , there won’t be any vapour there as its all condensed well before then .

I personally would make the pipe long enough so that none stuck out the end when it was right up simply because it would annoy me LOL .

[Slow42]

Thanks everyone this helps a lot. There’s helpful Information spread over numerous posts and it’s hard to keep track of everything. I take notes on what I think is important but lots of gaps in my notes as I really don’t know what’s important until I do more research. Everything is coming together now. I probably should have just started with a store bought unit but I don’t want to have anything registered with the government. Sooner or later someone is going to be made an example of. Are Chinese stills registered with the government?

[kimbodious]

gday Slow42,
You’ll be able to feel by the heat on the outside of the column how far up the RC the vapour is reaching before condensing, there will be an abrupt change. If you are concerned the vapour is getting too close to the top you can always increase the flow of water through the RC.

[kimbodious]

Here’s an Aussie mob making great copper coils, prices look good too. https://www.facebook.com/groups/2119560411469955

[Slow42]

Kimbodious escaping vapor is just what I’m worried about. I have a 5500 watt element and want to make sure the condenser I make is the right size for a 3” pipe. I don’t want any chance of escaping vapors. This part is of extreme importance to me. I appreciate your input.

[kimbodious]

Kimbodious escaping vapor is just what I’m worried about. I have a 5500 watt element and want to make sure the condenser I make is the right size for a 3” pipe. I don’t want any chance of escaping vapors. This part is of extreme importance to me. I appreciate your input.

All good. Wrap some SS scrubbers in and around your coil so that you have good contact between the condenser and the walls of the column. If you are running so much power through the element that the condenser cannot knock down all the vapour (escaping vapour) you won’t be getting optimum performance from your still anyway

[Slow42]

Will this setup work? The copper pipe and fittings are two inch diameter. Haven’t got the copper pipe yet. The coil is 3/8 x 60”. Total inside the pipe will be all but the connectors on top and a few inches of pipe. That makes the coil inside the pipe 14” approximately when in full reflux. About 50” of 3/8” pipe. The tail section, two coils, on the bottom is about 4 1/2 inches, included in the 50” total. Suggestions for modification. The material is fairly easy to work with. Thanks

[cayars]

Is this going to be for a CCVM? If so you want to add a top section of pipe above the T on the column. That will help hold the coil as well. Make sure you have a tight fit so the coil can be adjusted without slipping or moving.

[Slow42]

Yes Cayars it going to be a CCVM. I will be putting 2” copper pipe with tri clamp ferrules on top. Trying to figure out a good height for that pipe. Thinking I can use that piece also for using in pot still mode.

It’s a pretty tight fit has it is but I’ll have some metal clips to make sure it doesn’t move.

I have a second 70” x 1/2” coil for a product condenser to be build with the same 2” copper pipe. Length will be approximately 24” plus a few fittings.

[kimbodious]

Try twisting it in to a twist if you can’t fully coil it. This is how I made mine to fit.

[Slow42]

Thanks kimbodious I could do as you have, much easier, but I was concerned about the overall length of the condenser. What is the length of yours? Also what is the length of the pipe you have above the tee? Yours has two coils all the way, plus scrubbies, mine has two at the bottom and four the rest of the way. Mine more knock down power over yours? My major major concern is to make sure no vapors escape into the room. My boiler is 15 gallon 5500 watts.

[cayars]

The coil kimbodious has above will easily do 100% reflux on a 2" column with it just twisted like that. No need for anything more than that.
You don't need/want it going down to far into the column or it will be touching your packing which you don't want to happen. Normally you won't have the coil going any lower than the T section itself or roughly 10 to 12" at the most for full reflux and a few inches less when you want spirits flowing.

My coil like this uses 18" or 24" (can't remember which) length and I wouldn't want longer as it will be sticking out of the still too much. I actually don't use this style coil to much as I did a double wound coil out of 3/8 copper tubing and much prefer it's ease of use as it fits the column much better as it's round shaped.

[kimbodious]

Thanks kimbodious I could do as you have, much easier, but I was concerned about the overall length of the condenser. What is the length of yours? Also what is the length of the pipe you have above the tee? Yours has two coils all the way, plus scrubbies, mine has two at the bottom and four the rest of the way. Mine more knock down power over yours? My major major concern is to make sure no vapors escape into the room. My boiler is 15 gallon 5500 watts.

I used roughly 5’ or 150cm of CSST. The twisted section is about 14” or 35cm long. I have a 12” or 30cm section of spool above the tee. The scrubbers are to maintain contact between the condenser and the column walls. You’ll have plenty of knockdown power if not just increase the water flow.

[Slow42]

Thanks kimbodious for the reassurance! I was using a short pipe of copper 2” pipe to test my condenser shape and keep it tight that worked fine. I then tried it in the SS tee didn’t realize it was only 1 7/8 inches compared to the copper, 2” plus. To tight to fit in the SS tee had to tighten the end section a bit more. The SS coil is quite springy when you squeeze it that small. Would it be ok to use some copper wire to keep the bottom section tight?

[still_stirrin]

...Would it be ok to use some copper wire to keep the bottom section tight?

No reason not to...copper wire has many uses...give it a “go”.
ss

[Slow42]

Finally got to do my first soldering. It was quite enjoyable except for a few burns. I concentrated so much on what I was going I forgot everything gets quite hot. I used the SS gas line recommended here, 72” x 1/2. See in above post. Thanks for all the help everyone couldn’t have done it without you. They won’t be a next time but I would do things a bit different and save myself a lot of grief by doing things a bit different. Now on to the rest of the project.

[NJen]

Is there any reason I should not use a wye instead of a tee at the takeoff of a ccvm? Also is it okay to reduce pipe diameter from 3" to 2" just before the wye/tee? Looking at upgrading my column to something a little faster, as well as incorporate reflux into my distilling. Appreciate any input. I assume I should be okay with both questions, just want another opinion(s) before I throw my money at it.

[Corsaire]

I'd reduce after the y or t, to not mess with the vapor speed in the reflux part. Don't know if this matters much.
I also don't think it makes much if any difference whether y or t, as long as the ports are the same diameter your reflux ratio will be the same on both. Since it's vm the vapor should flow whether pointed straight to the side or angled up or down.
No experience here, just my thinking.

[greggn]

> Is there any reason I should not use a wye instead of a tee at the takeoff of a ccvm?


A "lateral wye" would work fine. I'd be a little concerned about the geometry of a "true wye" and whether the coil could completely cover the exit and sustain 100% reflux.

[Boozewaves]

Thought i'd post here as i'm having a bit of trouble with my newest CCVM , trying to get it running perfectly I feel like I have made it worse . if anybody has any ideas that would be great

its a butane powered gas ring , 9 gallon keg , 2.5 inch column 1.5 metres tall (about 5 foot) packed 3/4 with black lava rock going to a 2.5 inch stainless tee , elbow and pipe containing CSST product condenser and the reflux condenser is CSST also

I ran it once with low wines using small diameter CSST coiled for both condensers , the reflux condenser was overpowered even at its lowest position with lots of water flow , when it reached the product condenser I was getting alcohol vapours out of the end , turning down the heat meant I wasnt getting much output at all didn't want to abandon the run halfway through so I put wet rags on top of the piece that the product condenser was inside and it seemed to help me find a happy medium between getting good drips and no vapours escaping , I guess I was getting a bit of passive cooling from being in a cold draughty barn running the still at the time , it was earlier this year and still cold . overall it was a decent run and I liked the results

I thought its time to beef up the reflux condenser so I made a really long reflux condenser with thicker CSST , the stuff that is used for solar panel heaters , got lucky a few years ago and bought loads of it for cheap from a market , I made a twisted coil that would fit using a vice to crush it to the right shape , thought i'd keep the original smaller product condenser coil but re would it so there was a bigger gap in between coils , I ran it last sunday , I got amazing reflux from it , it worked really well but when I came to raising it I got the same problem , either really slow drips or alcohol vapour escaping . I could not get alcohol to exit the still to be honest , and after I knocked a jar containing foreshots over trying to adjust the condensers position while being up a ladder and it nearly caused a big fire in the shed I used I decided to quit for the day and come back to it because that scared the shit out of me . learned a lesson there for sure and made a better "receptacle" to hold jars securely , better safe than self immolated

when I tried it again last night I had already made a twisted product condenser from the thicker stuff and I thought this would solve the problem but got either vapours out again or a painfully slow drip , and this is frustrating as I can hear the vapour turning into liquid and dripping down the lava rock packing from the RC even though its fully raised , I was really tired so I gave up and went to bed after turning everything off

I know it can work better but not sure what to do , my first idea is to use my potstill lyne arm as a condenser , that is an absolute beast of a condenser as I purposely overengineered it with loads of the thicker CSST in a copper pipe but I would need a 2.5 to 3 inch adapter (its all triclamps)

its a work in progress I guess , hopefully lots of time to try again next week just wondering if anybody has any ideas

[Kansas]

Do you have scrubbers packed in and around the coil? I had similar issues until I packed them tighter in there. It also helps keeps the coil in place better.

[kimbodious]

what kansas said, you need all round contact with the walls of the column with the reflux condenser, SS scrubbers wound through it do the trick perfectly!

[Fart Vader]

Yup. Same as last two posters mentioned. Stick a scrubby or two in your coil windings to fix the issue.
A little more contac area is all you need.

[Boozewaves]

Thanks guys. Glad it's something easy

Yeah product condenser fit is not ideal. Will strip some copper cable and make some scrubbies

[kimbodious]

Thanks guys. Glad it's something easy

Yeah product condenser fit is not ideal. Will strip some copper cable and make some scrubbies

It doesn’t need to be copper for that job if that’s a hassle for you.

[Boozewaves]

Thanks kimbodious , Boiled some stainless scrubbies. Now I'm soaking them in some low wines to make sure they don't make the alcohol turn a funny colour. They did smell a bit oily when I got them.

I have made an even better product condenser using 2 separate 15mm diameter pieces of csst interwoven as well to hedge my bets . Was going to run today but too late to start now.

[kimbodious]

Thanks kimbodious , Boiled some stainless scrubbies. Now I'm soaking them in some low wines to make sure they don't make the alcohol turn a funny colour. They did smell a bit oily when I got them.

I have made an even better product condenser using 2 separate 15mm diameter pieces of csst interwoven as well to hedge my bets . Was going to run today but too late to start now.

We’ll be keen to learn how the mods went, you’ll be fine I am tipping.

[Boozewaves]

We’ll be keen to learn how the mods went, you’ll be fine I am tipping.

All good. Scrubbies were good to use. Double coil with scrubbies works like a dream with no vapour escaping. Am just purging the tails now for some feints to keep for next run . It's been a good day

Edited once as I wrote "fores" when I should have wrote feints. Don't want to mislead people

[Kansas]

Yeah, the 1/2 CSST coils with scrubbers that I use never flinch at anything I throw at them. Been very happy with them.

[kimbodious]

We’ll be keen to learn how the mods went, you’ll be fine I am tipping.

All good. Scrubbies were good to use. Double coil with scrubbies works like a dream with no vapour escaping.

Great to read that, welcome to the growing group of happy CCVM operators!