I've seen the way of the future

[shadylane]

When solar panels aren't the most efficient way to getter done.
Burn the stored solar energy commonly called wood

[jog666]

If you lived in Miami, FL you would have 4.5 sun hours per day. San Francisco, CA 3.4, San Antonio TX 4.1, Memphis, TN 3.4, Salt Lake City, UT 2.9 sun hours per day.

You location plays a big part as well. For example in NJ where I'm at we get 2.8 of "sun hours" per day (this is the number times the watts to calculate produced wattage) vs the same panel in Florida at 4.3 sun hours per day.

How is the "sun hours" thing figured? Some kind of average that factors in latitude & other mumbojumbo?

[NZChris]

$4000 would likely get you batteries, DC to AC controller and the charge controller but none of the solar panels.
Figure $200 per 300 watt panel for cheap ones and you'll need about 22 of them or another $4400.
Then you need wiring, frames, plugs, etc
Easily a $10K system just for your still.

Propane or even a gas/propane generator would be a lot cheaper for off grid use.

Those numbers are meaningful if you are off grid, but working 9 to 5 and wanting to distil outside peak sunshine hours. Your numbers are for way more Watt/hours than a home distiller in the woods, who can watch it during the day, needs to keep his family in likker.

In a week of distilling days, I can easily produce more ethanol than we can use in a year using far less Watts than you're proposing in your calculations.

There are 12V elements available in various Wattages that can be wired/switched in various configurations to give you control if you have more panels than you need and feel the need to have something to fiddle with during a run, (I don't), so there is no need to waste energy by converting to AC. I sometimes run my main still and preheater by doing just that. It ain't rocket science.

[NZChris]

When solar panels aren't the most efficient way to getter done.
Burn the stored solar energy commonly called wood

I've done a few of them now. It's very satisfying and the bottles are always labelled with where they were made.

[cayars]

Those numbers are meaningful if you are off grid, but working 9 to 5 and wanting to distil outside peak sunshine hours. Your numbers are for way more Watt/hours than a home distiller in the woods, who can watch it during the day, needs to keep his family in likker.

In a week of distilling days, I can easily produce more ethanol than we can use in a year using far less Watts than you're proposing in your calculations.

Those numbers should be pretty typical of a keg reflux still. But I showed the math so anyone could follow along and adjust based on their own needs. You would need to regulate the power so you can't run a still directly off the panels themselves. If you didn't do this then when a cloud went by you would stop producing, would have a drip, small stream, large stream, etc... Solar panels are constantly changing what they produce. The specified wattage figure is the PEAK it can put out, not the minimal it will put out.

There are 12V elements available in various Wattages that can be wired/switched in various configurations to give you control if you have more panels than you need and feel the need to have something to fiddle with during a run, (I don't), so there is no need to waste energy by converting to AC. I sometimes run my main still and preheater by doing just that. It ain't rocket science.

Solar panels aren't twelve volt. At 12 volt you wouldn't be able to charge a 12 volt battery. With both the batteries and solar panels you gang them into much higher voltages to keep the amperage lower (less resistance) and then use a charge controller to vary the voltage amperage to best charge the battery bank.

You don't have enough sun in a day to run a typical still run of 8 hours. Remember the power they output looks like a bell curve with a high point in the middle and low points at both ends. Only around "noonish" will the panels put out close to maximum power. Within 2 hours you'll be getting roughly half power from them. That's how "solar sun hours" figures in. This doesn't matter if putting juice into the grid or a battery bank but would mean you'd likely need 5X solar panels to run them "live".

You're going to produce quite differently month to month as well. Here's a quick run I just did for a 1KW solar system with 90% efficiency in Wellington 6021 postal code New Zealand. This shows the optimal amount of energy produced by month. There is a 3 times difference between winter and summer. In Jan (peak) you could produce 5.2 kW per day but would need more than this for the still. If you assumed (doesn't work this way) that the 5.2 kW was even all day long and a run takes 8 hours you would get 649 watts on a 1 kW highly optimized solar system.

So I think it would be clear to see that you need to harness all the energy everyday and put it into the grid or batteries for later use otherwise you have to super size the system and waste energy produced when not distilling which would be foolish.

[NZChris]

If a cloud passes over, it's no different to adding wood to a fire that you've let go too low. The output slows, or stops, then carries on. A pot still doesn't have to have constant output flow and it doesn't even have to finish in a day, although that would be handy. If it hasn't finished, a well insulated still can hold a lot of it's heat for the next day. The charge in my preheater holds it's temperature very well for a quick start in the morning and extra insulation could easily be added to both it and to the main boiler.

If you don't have enough sun in winter, run in summer.

[cayars]

I think you're still missing the point. The panel would only put out it's rated wattage for 2 months of the year for about 1.5 to 2 hours at most a day.
So you would need a lot more panels to run "live".

It's just not cost justified.

[NZChris]

It's just not cost justified.

You only have to justify cost if you're running a business or cash strapped. My bike cost far more than I would need to spend on a solar system to run my largest still and preheater.

Probably none of my hobbies are cost justified. It costs me more to make cheese than I can buy it for, but I still make it, more to own and run a boat than I would spend on fish, one of my cars is far older than I am and so on...

At home distiller scale you're not limited to running a keg and using big Watts to make good likker, you just have to put your 'Can do' hat on and design and build something that works instead of wasting your time looking for reasons not to do it. If I moved my still off grid, going solar would only require an extra couple of panels and some 12V elements, as we already have an upgradeable system and, as a bonus, the system would then have enough grunt to charge my bike ).

[cayars]

Well let me just say this. I'm talking from experience of a few decent systems I've build. I've got solar on my RV and on my sailboat. I've got a portable system for my HAM radio and relay network. I've done my local RC club's charging station out in the middle of no wear. Those are all "off grid/battery systems). I also have close to 250 panels with solar tracking for my house. I jumped when both the Fed and State offered rebates/credits plus pay me each month per 10Kw generated. IRS/Fed will allow you to deduct 26% in solar credits and similar for my state. I got my system for about 50% off material cost upfront. 25% paid for within a year in credits leaving my true costs at roughly 25%. I did the installation myself and paid an inspector to sign off on the installation. I've easily paid it off if offset credits and save on electrical costs each month, but the system is already down to 60% of what it produced when new in just a few short years. Without the credits and essentially rebates it would not have been worth it.
This is just shy of 93Kw solar with tracking to follow the sun.

I did each rack in one year. So 2 years of "tax deductions at work" before they changed the program or I'd have a few more rows.

To run a keg reflux still real time would take 1/4 of one row from the top rack. That would work for about 2 hours each day during the summer. In the winter trying to run 4 hours would take one full row from that same top rack. But as I previously mentioned that would be dumb as the rest of the time it would be doing nothing but aging. The panels would also have to be shorted to a heat sink as well to bleed off the energy they produce or would have to be covered (could never get that approved and would be very dangerous).

It's no where near as simple as you think it is and would require more panels than a simple "calculation" might seem to indicate.
When you start to invest money in solar you make 100% use of them all the time hobby or not, be it grid or battery tied.

Realistically the numbers would be higher than I previously posted as you wouldn't be using just X amount of electricity to distill with. You would need electricity for mashing, for running pumps, powering a radio or TV, lights if at night, a fan or two in the summer, etc...

[NZChris]

You're just trying to over complicate it. Most of us have our lighting, etc., sorted already, no need to tack that stuff onto the equation. Our existing solar looks after that 365 days of the year, even though there is usually nobody around using it.

If you don't have the power to mash and there is some really good reason why you can't use wood to heat a mash tun, which should be at least three times the size of your still anyway, make things that don't need mashing.

[cayars]

I'm not trying to over complicate anything, just explaining how it actually works with realistic numbers and what can and can't be done real time. You're trying to over simplify something that can't (or shouldn't) reasonably be done. LOL

Again for off grid, a generator for electric OR propane is just so much easier all around. Either can be packed up and moved as well.

[NZChris]

Our off grid solar works just fine. It's just big enough for our needs, didn't cost silly amounts of cash and is in it's permanent position.

I can't imagine a much more unpleasant way to run a still in the country, miles away from the nearest road and neighbor, than having the noise pollution from a generator.

[Expat]

Even with electric, most of the off grid people I know have propane for cooking; seems like the simplest solution.

[NZChris]

It's been frustratingly cloudy all morning, but when the sun did come out, my mini gin still with a 4' dish aimed at it got a charge of water up to distilling temperature in 38 minutes. If I'd put a gin charge in it, it would be distilling already.

[The Baker]

We have eighteen solar panels and when I finally get the electric still going it will be a big help.
I won't have a BIG element in the still, a bit longer heat-up doesn't matter.

The amount the power companies pay for our solar power is pitiful and they charge like a red bull from the grid.

Geoff

[NZChris]

The amount the power companies pay for our solar power is pitiful and they charge like a red bull from the grid.

Geoff

That's not much different from NZ. The last solar salesman gave up trying to sell me his wares once he realised that I'd done the numbers and knew that his company was the only true beneficiary of us signing up. The numbers have gotten worse since then.

[atarijedi]

There is a company in Richland, Washington called Solar Spirits. They distill on 100% solar thermal energy. From what I recall, they use solar evacuated tubes, and pump that heat to the still using a thermal oil. Been around for a few years now. Their master distiller is a chemical engineer.

[NZChris]

Thanks for the heads up, atarijedi. I hadn't thought of using oil to move solar heat around.

[NZChris]

Thanks to Durhommer, I have made a very nice batch of gin using solar.

[Durhommer]

Well I'm glad someone got use out of my pipe dream idea!! I'm too broke to rig that up at the moment

[The Baker]

We used to be able to get a HEAT PUMP hot water system with a massive government subsidy.
I never had one but my brother-in-law did.
I think he said it was a bit noisy.
Anyway apparently they are super efficient in their use of power.
So could perhaps be used with a pump to heat your mash/ whatever with a coil of tube, to nearly hot enough for distillation.
A thought.

Geoff

[Durhommer]

A mighty fine thought it is

[zach]

Without the credits and essentially rebates it would not have been worth it.

I agree solar is only viable with forced government redistribution.

I guess I'm a little more pessimistic about the way of the future. I see something more like the past.

https://www.despotstills.eu/brandy-pot- ... ith-mixer/

But the upside is a little more exercise with the chainsaw and the ax.

[living in the hollar]

How about a rocket stove controlling temp will be a little fidgety but with practice should do ok.

[justbob54]

To everyone who has contributied ideas I thank you for your thoughts I'm going to give all of them careful concideration. I'll be back from the future.