Install heating element vs readymade Turbo Boiler

[charcoal]

I am thinking to drill a hole in my 30 L Boiler and install a heating element.
Advantages: Boiler has a hole in lid where I mount a thermometer, 5 litre more space. No need to install a sanitary adapter.

Other option is to sell it and buy this.


25L Turbo 500 Boiler + 2" adapter
Advantages: Concealed heating element. boil dry protection

Any other suggestions?

TIA!

[Slow42]

So you have a 30l pot you want to add a heating element, about $30.00 vs a turbo 500 cost about $200 plus? Is that correct?

[charcoal]

So you have a 30l pot you want to add a heating element, about $30.00 vs a turbo 500 cost about $200 plus? Is that correct?

Partially correct. I bought the complete pot still set 4 days ago and can sell it near the price I bought so it does not matter much. I was using only the kettle from the set.

Option one:
Take a small hit in reselling the Pot still set, spend money for Turbo + adapter

Option 2:
Buy a Tungsten Carbide holesaw for12 USD + 30 USD for element.

Turbo also comes with a drain cock.

[Slow42]

Charcoal your like me I have to buy the tools to make my still or buy one. It’s easy to buy yet more difficult to build. The thrill of the build has over powered me and I’m going the build route. If the unit was working for you why spend the extra money when you can modify much cheaper? If money isn’t an issue buy. Read here about the turbo 500 and you might change your mind on buying this.

[charcoal]

Money is not a big issue. There would be like a 40 USD difference between the two options. I really don't like to use hard to maintain/clean stuff so went the readymade route.

For the record, I used to be a Maintenance Engineer many moons ago and I was a good one too.

Turbo still is bad because it has plastics in it. But turbo Boiler seems to be OK though some people have observed scorching in it.

The reason I need to buy is because of speed and convenience. I had a 20 litre boiler as can be seen here

viewtopic.php?t=76373

Heating 60 litres on the hot plate took me 2 days. I have bought a 30 litre pot still for its boiler but would like an internal heater as the external ones take ages to heat up.

BTW, what is your planned still and what types of drink you would be making?

[Slow42]

Charcoal convenience yes! Speed, at my age I’m not into speed anymore just a slow pace so I can enjoy things. Leave the fast pace for the youngsters.
I’m building a CCVM out of 2” copper pipe and SS gas line, cost looks to be about $250.00, not including tools I have to buy or boiler and heat controller. Lots of post on this. My main product will be a vodka. I already have a 15 gallon keg with a 5500 watt heating element and controller.

By the way member Cayers has that same unit. He recommended it to me. It cost about $160.

[charcoal]

Well here outside fires are not allowed (Australia) so gas burners are outside scope. Internal gas burner makes the home so hot now.

I don't really want to spend a full weekend just distilling.

There are readymade still for Bokakob designs on some sites.

[cayars]

If you're talking about a Turbo 500, don't do it unless you want to have other issues to deal with.

Purchase the holesaw and drill two holes. One for heat element and one for a drain.

[charcoal]

What are these other issues? Most of the issues I have read are with the still.

[cayars]

Read the forums as there is a lot of information. Basically, lack of heat control and quality of materials.
It's essentially and on/off crab cooker.

You gain NOTHING that you wouldn't have by adding a heating element to your own boiler but you would be loose capacity. If you feel compelled to purchase a new boiler pick up an 8 or 13 gallon milk can with ferrules for heating elements already setup and build a controller for heat adjustment.

[charcoal]

I did read the other posts and found out that someone got scorching when running the boiler. Most of the problems are with the condenser.

https://www.5stardistilling.com.au/prod ... an-boiler/ 50L Milk Can Boiler 580 AUD

https://www.stilldragon.com.au/50-litre ... ent-ports/ 50 Litre Milk Can, Twin Element Ports $490.00

Apart from the can, I would need a heating element that is around 60 AUD and comes unwired.

The element in T500 boiler is pre installed, concealed and is protected against dry boiling. T500 boiler can be had for 220 AUD with the 2" connector.

Heat controllers are extra in both cases.

Milk can option would be like 600 AUD. T500 boiler is 220 AUD.

[cayars]

Turbo 500 has shitty heating adjustment which sucks! You would likely end up replacing it to make good product. You'll read about people having trouble adjusting the reflux BECAUSE you have no heat control which means everything is done on the column. That's bad design.

If you end up having to modify/bypass the controller, why not just add an element to the boiler you already have and build a cheap controller calling it a day for about $100 AUD?

[Slow42]

Charcoal I agree with Cayars except I think you can do if for less than $100.00. Two main components heating element and controller. Check on the site here a 240 controller cost about $15.00. PID controller cost about $35.00. Then some wire and a few connectors done. Hole saw $12.00 plus putting in no weld drain $20.00. So about tops $100.00 with everything. Dam Cayers was right

I do like the other route better though as you said money wasn’t that important. Still Dragon has some beautiful stuff. I would buy a complete setup from them.

The trip is half the fun.

[charcoal]

Well 220 AUD vs 600 AUD is a big difference. I don't mind spending money if I am getting something that can justify the purchase.

Heat controller is an extra in both the routes so it should not be counted against Turbo boiler. Also, there is another 30 L boiler here

https://www.ibrew.com.au/collections/bo ... eer-boiler

Slow42, you forgot to add the cost of a heater. Those are like 50 AUD. Also, I did not find a link mentioned in your post. Please let me know the link.

@ Slow42 & Cayars, what are the stills your have?

[NZChris]

PID controller cost about $35.00.

Nonsense. A PID controller will cost you 35 bucks plus however many hours of fighting your still that it takes you to realise that the Youtuber who recommended it didn't know what he was talking about, plus the cost of the cheaper power controller you should have bought in the first place.

[Yummyrum]

PID controller cost about $35.00.

Nonsense. A PID controller will cost you 35 bucks plus however many hours of fighting your still that it takes you to realise that the Youtuber who recommended it didn't know what he was talking about, plus the cost of the cheaper power controller you should have bought in the first place.

... thats the truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth .

[cayars]

@ Slow42 & Cayars, what are the stills your have?

Multiple including pot with single and double thumpers. VM, LM, CM, CCVM reflux stills (modular so not all separate units). I also had a 4" flute (4 plates) that I just recently sold. The flute looked cool, but didn't bring anything new to my table that I couldn't already do easier/quicker. The CM is the same as the one you have I believe. Remove one of the 90 degree elbows and replace with a T, 8" section, a cap (optional) and home maid coil and you also have a CCVM for $30 or $40 bucks.

Powered by propane on the bigger still, natural gas & 110V electric on the smaller stills and some in the works of conversion to 220V electric. I've been doing electric work to be able to run 220V inside vs just spring/falls runs out in the garage with propane.
Range of sizes of boilers include 1, 5, 13, 15.5 and soon 26 gallon boiler.

I specifically will be using PIDs on the electric conversions to start with as I prefer the finer automated control of boiler temp and vapor rates I can get with a PID when setup correctly, while monitoring temp probes. But I'm shooting for a fully automated production system on the newer bigger build this spring/summer. I want something more similar to what I've worked on in industry (see sig) control wise. With multiple probes in the column and take off I'll also automate reflux and cooling water as well. I want to be able to dial in recipes and run them exactly the same every time.

[RC Al]

Cough $40-50 aud 50L keg off Gumtree cough
Don't bother modifying a small boiler ?
Fire bans come and go... built intelligently it's no different to a BBQ safety wise... gas is king for fast stripping

30-40 min boil up n then 8-9l per hour on my simple rig for a strip run on a 45l charge, but my liebig is limiting that atm, not sure what the t500 version is good for speed wise though

lights on.jpg (16.42 KiB) Viewed 4906 times

[cayars]

Yea man, propane can make quick work for stripping!
BTW, do you run the keg boiler crooked like that? Just a pot and not reflux right?

[NJen]

I think the barrel is the crooked part, just looks like the keg

[RC Al]

2" pot with a 6' 3/4 over 1/2 (od oz copper) liebig
Rusted out barrel shroud is very on the piss, keg is fairly level
Burner is a keg king/land China copy of a bayou classic with bg14 cast into it
Only running a 2.5kg/h regulator, but it's sposed to be able to handle a 4.5

Edit gas aside, mod a keg over a 20-30l boiler, this will future proof your setup somewhat, even if at some stage you dish out on a 100l+ one later, it will still be usable as a thumper or other things as you fall down the rabbit hole

[Slow42]

PID controller cost about $35.00.

Nonsense. A PID controller will cost you 35 bucks plus however many hours of fighting your still that it takes you to realise that the Youtuber who recommended it didn't know what he was talking about, plus the cost of the cheaper power controller you should have bought in the first place.

First no Youtuber recommended it to me. I been using PID’s for many years prior to learning about distilling. Yes it takes time to learn how to use one and it’s no different than using a rheostat type controller in a way. One you push buttons another you twist a dial. The temperature gauge controls or tells you what to do next. Using either you still have to know what your doing temperature wise with your setup. Nothing complicated about either device. You were right on one point the the cost of the PID. I over inflated the cost you can get the entire set up for less than $20.00, aliexpress. Learning curve, the fun/frustration learning how do something different.

Also I did watch the YouTube video on using the PID. George, of Barley and Hops, did a wonderful presentation on its usage. People just might learn something watching the video. So you and a few others don’t like them that’s OK!

[Slow42]

Charcoal the post is under Heating element control. I don’t know how to copy it to here. Cost $16.00. Not sure what your electrical requirements are but something like this will do what you want. I also have two similar one for a 5500 watt heating element and one to run my electrical drill. Works great and cheap.

There are several other styles and some are self contained.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... SX679_.jpg

[Danespirit]

+1 NZChris

Here is a simple way for a controller: viewtopic.php?f=85&t=58011
A super simple way is one of these from eBay (rated at 5000 W) and you won't even bother with an enclosure

That beauty costs 6$ that's all.
A stainless steel beer keg, two 1" threaded fittings for the element and drain, and a hole saw to drill the hole.
If you know someone who can TIG weld the fitting on the keg it's fine. However, it can also be soldered to it.
I bet all in all it will cost you less than the T 500 boiler.
Then you just need a worm or a Liebig condenser and you're good to go.
You won't be happy with that Turbo 500 thing for long.
Just throwing some ideas into it and thinking loud.....

Edit: I made my boiler from a very common 25 L milk can and welded two fittings to it. One for the element and one for the drain valve.
I had the option for TIG welding it myself. If not I could easily have soldered both onto it with a common MAP torch and solder.

[Slow42]

Danespirit excellent find!

[charcoal]

Cough $40-50 aud 50L keg off Gumtree cough
Don't bother modifying a small boiler ?
Fire bans come and go... built intelligently it's no different to a BBQ safety wise... gas is king for fast stripping

30-40 min boil up n then 8-9l per hour on my simple rig for a strip run on a 45l charge, but my liebig is limiting that atm, not sure what the t500 version is good for speed wise though
lights on.jpg

That is some real powerful stuff but not for me. For anyone who is reading this from Australia, Many Kegs can be had for free or under 20 AUD from Gumtree. I found like 6 in my city today.

8-9 L of Alcohol per hour? That is way too much for me. I managed well with a 4 Litre AirStill for months!

A T500 and similar are 2000watts on 240V. They are quite popular in Australia/New Zealand.

[cayars]

While they may be popular or work, doesn't mean it's the best tool for making the best spirits possible otherwise.
There is a REASON why people try to keep others from using certain equipment. Been there, done that comes to mind.
AirStills and T500 are sort of novice stills with little control like you would have on something resembling a good hobby or commercial still. Simple things like being able to dial in the heat and cooing TOGETHER are needed to reflux well.

Here's the thing. With a 4 liter Airstill there really isn't cuts being done properly. The still is just to small to give you the control you need to make them. I'm sure you think you're doing cuts but with a bigger still you'll understand just how bad your Airstill cuts were (if any).

[charcoal]

Airstill was the still I first used and to this date I still like it. I used to call my wife to switch on the "Coffee Machine" when I left office. The Machine took like 4.5 L in the stripping run and the first drops would come after 60 mins or so.

I will try to make a hole when I finish stripping my 30 L wash today and then update you on the progress.

[Saltbush Bill]

Have you ever really seen a T500 in the flesh or used one Cayarses? Sometimes its better not to comment on things you have absolutely no experience of.

[NZChris]

Here's the thing. With a 4 liter Airstill there really isn't cuts being done properly. The still is just to small to give you the control you need to make them. I'm sure you think you're doing cuts but with a bigger still you'll understand just how bad your Airstill cuts were (if any).

Only if you follow the instructions that come with the Airstill. If you are prepared to get off your arse and swap the collection bottles as many times as you would running a 40l charge, the results should be nowhere near as different as your mentor told you or you are imagining.