Fermentation - Big bucket Vs. several smaller buckets

[DJT64]

I have been fermenting basic Sugar washes and distilling them with a Reflux Still for around a year now. I have been using 25L buckets so far.
As impractical as it may seem, would I not get a faster fermentation if I utilized several smaller buckets at once? I know this hobby is not for the impatient, it is merely an experiment I am contemplating. Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated!

[Corsaire]

Don't know if I understand you correctly, but a ferment does its thing no matter the size of the batch. Big ones hold temps longer, but the ferment speed is the same.
I have a fermenter that fills my boiler several times. To make enough wash to do multiple stripping runs.
I still have some 30l buckets for experimental washes.

[Yummyrum]

+1 Corsaire

One big fermenter or a lot of smaller ones .... at the end of the day , you will get pretty much the same amount fermented in the same amount if time .

Arguably, bigger fermenters tend to run at higher temps so fermentation overall will be a bit quicker . Counter argument is that higher / faster fermentions means more congenors ... but if making Rum , then thats a good thing .

Bottom line for me is that there is not really all that much in it if you want to get real .

[DJT64]

Interesting, thank you both for your input!
I was working under the idea that the Yeast would have less sugar to convert, but I'll stick to what's been working for me.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

The yeast first undergo an aerobic stage in which they multiply and colonize the fermentation vessel.

They are going to do so based on the space and amount of fermentable available.

So the only way a large ferment would be be slower or the yeast have more sugar to convert, is if you're not pitching an amount of yeast proportionate to the size of your ferment.

[jonnys_spirit]

I usually do larger mashes in a 32 gallon brute. Might get a 50 gallon HDPE barrel or two. As my mashes cool to pitching temp over 24-36h i’ll grow the yeast colony in a jar then in a gallon or two of wort in a 5 gallon bucket - starting with a single small yeast packet. By the time I reach pitch temp i’ve got a significant colony going and the larger batch kicks off very enthusiastically. I vote for larger batches = less work and more likker.

Cheers!
jonny

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Lately, I have been saving the 2-3 gallons of trub from the previous ferment, and feeding it just a little sugar, then just dumping it all in when the temp.geta right.

If it hasn't sat idle too long between ferments, it kicks right off again, plus the spent yeast make great nutrients.

[Expat]

I regularly see differences between my 44g brute and 5g fermentation buckets. Both are temp controlled identically, and split from the same source after pitch. The 44g will tend to slow to a crawl at around 1.01 whereas the 5g drops straight to .99. the only difference I can see is the size and shape of the fermenter I.e surface area to volume. The difference is minor but repeatable.

[Corsaire]

Weird. I upgraded to a 65l trash can, didn't notice any difference.
I bought a 200l one for my keg but haven't used that one yet.

[Boozewaves]

I just keep buying 25 litre / 5 gallon fermenting buckets whenever I see them for sale cheap , bought a few new ones at the very beginning which I still use

The good thing with small ones is I can move them easily by myself , placing them outside to cold crash and also aeration , de-gassing or clearing by tipping from one container to another , placing high up so I can gravity syphon into the still are all things I could not do with anything much bigger . Having a few smaller ones means I can try different recipes at the same time too

I have been into the practical side of this hobby for about a year on and off and I still screw up occasionally , putting all my eggs in one big basket is not a good idea , for my 1st ever batch I make a wash in a 200 litre / 50 gal hdpe drum and it took months to finish because of my inexperience and cold temps , on reflection I now know it didn't finish properly . Also I had to move the big drum halfway through the ferment but thats another story , it wasnt much fun but I'm laughing about it now I guess

maybe I will try the big drum again when I have my technique dialed

[StillerBoy]

If the sugar wash is structure to maintain a one and half pound of sugar per gallon, and the required ingredients, then the volume is not relevant to the length of time it takes to finish fermenting..

What is very relevant is maintain the correct temp for the yeast used, the Ph within the first 6 and 12 hrs at the start..

If these two items are followed, it should ferment out in 3 days, erelevant of the volume/size of batch..

Mars

[GCB3]

Hey DJ T. Many here size their fermenters t to match their equipment and processes. For example, if you have a 15 gallon boiler, a typical charge might be in the 12 gallon range.A 15 gallon fermenter should yield approximately 12 gallons of wash taking headspace and trubb into account.

Washes are typically stripped before doing a spirit run. A stripping run will typically yield 25 to 33% of the boiler charge depending on how deep you run into the tales. So, three stripping runs should yield a full boiler charge for your spirit run. So matching the fermenter to the boiler size works well for me. Others have sized their fermenters to make three charges at one time. This saves them time butcan create handling issues as noted in a post above.

So finding the balance between your boiler size, how you are going to run your product, and how you will handle your fermenters will help you decide what size fermenters will work best for you. Hope this helps.

[Windswept]

Hey DJ T. Many here size their fermenters t to match their equipment and processes. For example, if you have a 15 gallon boiler, a typical charge might be in the 12 gallon range.A 15 gallon fermenter should yield approximately 12 gallons of wash taking headspace and trubb into account.

Washes are typically stripped before doing a spirit run. A stripping run will typically yield 25 to 33% of the boiler charge depending on how deep you run into the tales. So, three stripping runs should yield a full boiler charge for your spirit run. So matching the fermenter to the boiler size works well for me. Others have sized their fermenters to make three charges at one time. This saves them time butcan create handling issues as noted in a post above.

So finding the balance between your boiler size, how you are going to run your product, and how you will handle your fermenters will help you decide what size fermenters will work best for you. Hope this helps.

This is the magic ratio for me: I have an 8 gallon boiler and I use a 20 gallon fermenter. With UJSSM, I get two full charges for my boiler, and after two ferments (4 stripping runs) I get a full spirit run.

It works like a charm as long as I keep filling the fermenter up to the crud line!

[GCB3]

Hey Windswept. How did you decide on a 20 gallon fermenter verses a 3 or 4 strip size? Was it handling or space or something else? Your thought process may help DJT (and me).

[Windswept]

Hey Windswept. How did you decide on a 20 gallon fermenter verses a 3 or 4 strip size? Was it handling or space or something else? Your thought process may help DJT (and me).

The main reason I got away from 5 (or 6) gallon carboy ferments was that it didn't fill my boiler properly, I was spending more time washing, prepping and brewing than anything else, and I had a real variability in fermentation between small batches. The larger ferments fixed all of those issues. Yes if you lose a larger ferment, you lose more product, but I've been losing fewer ferments as I get better at it. I was also getting tired of making a small batch and ending up with 5-10 bottles at the end of all that work, now after 2 ferments, 4 stripping runs and a spirit run I end up with about a 5 gallon carboy of 40% product.

For me, 20 gallon is a good size because I can move it around (on a cart) easily, it fills my boiler in useable amounts, and the containers are cheap. I am in the process of increasing to a 15 gallon boiler, so I might re-evaluate fermenter sizes or make slightly smaller or larger washes. Also, a neat side effect for UJSSM (which I've been doing lately) is that the recipe is half a bag of sugar and half a bag of corn to start, then half a bag of sugar for the rest of the batches (I'm on generation 5 now.

When I get the new boiler going, I might move up a fermenter size, but probably not right away. I keep joking with my wife that I'll be moving on to IBCs soon, she's not really in favour...

The other scenario I do pretty often is for sugar wash/neutrals where I do two full stripping runs, then dump the rest of the wash in with the low wines and reflux it.

It's also easy and cheap to scale up, I've had six running at the same time (it'll be a long time before I do that again).

[GCB3]

That was a great response. You have also brought up a point that I neglected, which is washing and prepping. The more buckets, airlocks, drain valves, etc. that have to be washed and sterilized, the longer and the more space it takes to get this done. I need to re-evaluate my fermenter set up. Thanks

[Windswept]

That was a great response. You have also brought up a point that I neglected, which is washing and prepping. The more buckets, airlocks, drain valves, etc. that have to be washed and sterilized, the longer and the more space it takes to get this done. I need to re-evaluate my fermenter set up. Thanks

No Worries, garbage cans are dead easy to clean, some soap, hot water and a sponge!

As for draining, which you mention, I haven't found a great way to do it, I'm currently using a large plastic measuring cup to scoop out wash. That's my biggest downside right now!

[Corsaire]

Idea. Pick up a podium element. They make great worktables. They are infinitely height adjustable with a screw system and they can carry a lot of load.
Over here they're fairly easy to find second hand, 100 to 150€.
Put your fermenter(s) on it. Raise them so you can rack'em into your boiler.

I use my motorcycle lift for this. The podium element idea was after watching a laura kampf video. I'm thinking of putting one of these to use in my new shed.

[jonnys_spirit]

I use a vacuum pump to rack into carboys from the brute and it provides degassing too. Five gallon carboy is just about the right size for dumping into the 16g boiler and i'll let it clear a little first.
https://www.allinonewinepump.com/produc ... winemaker/
I also use this for wine and have almost 20 carboys available for racking and transfer.

Cheers!
-jonny

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I rarely wash or sterilize anything.
Just fyi.

Almost anything infection your ferment can catch is likely to improve the distillate, if not go unnoticed.

[light_spirited]

As for draining, which you mention, I haven't found a great way to do it, I'm currently using a large plastic measuring cup to scoop out wash. That's my biggest downside right now!

I am using 30gals hdpe barrels. I drain them with a chugger pump from the top:

[Truckinbutch]

That was a great response. You have also brought up a point that I neglected, which is washing and prepping. The more buckets, airlocks, drain valves, etc. that have to be washed and sterilized, the longer and the more space it takes to get this done. I need to re-evaluate my fermenter set up. Thanks

No Worries, garbage cans are dead easy to clean, some soap, hot water and a sponge!

As for draining, which you mention, I haven't found a great way to do it, I'm currently using a large plastic measuring cup to scoop out wash. That's my biggest downside right now!

I've stated on other threads and will repeat here :
Build carts that will accommodate 50 gallon Brutes which will accommodate 32 gallon Brutes or 32 gal on their own . That makes moving them easy and does not require the floor space of 5 gallon buckets .
Line the 32 gal Brute with a 50 gal clear industrial garbage bag and put your mash in there . Stretch another bag over the top and punch 2-3 pencil lead size vent holes in it to keep it from blowing off .
If fermenting temps are a problem pot the 32 inside the 50 or 44 and add enough water in the outside can to get negative buoyancy . Put an aquarium heater in that clear water to maintain an ideal ferment temp .
You can roll the rig wherever you need and can siphon handily . Bail out the remaining grains for squeezing and pitch the garbage bags . Repeat as needed .

[charcoal]

Bigger is better for me. Uses the same heater, thermometer and hydrometer. Even if it is slow, I don't notice it as I have surplus wash. I just use a 30 l and one 60 litre one.

[NZChris]

I don't move my large fermenters until they are empty. Pump or siphon does the job. In my opinion, moving them to facilitate cold crashing is a hangover from beer brewing that is unnecessary for distilling unless you have a really badly designed still with extreme hot spots.

For large batches of neutral, I don't even stick to my usual 'rule of thumb' of 3 or 4 strips worth of wash, preferring to fill a large fermenter with 7 or 8 strips worth of wash.

[GCB3]

Thanks TB. I came across your double trashcan concept while researching this. I have a 32 gallon brute and I picked up a 55 gallon brute and dolly this past weekend. Plan to put together my mobile fermenting cart this coming weekend. Instead of water I am planning to use Close cell foam insulation between the two trash cans. This will be my “no cook” corn mashing/fermenter.

Chris, I wish I had the room and set up to do wash is that large. I’m jealous!

[Tabucowboy]

Do you guys put an airlock on your fermenters? If so how do you do it on a 32 gallon one?

[Windswept]

Do you guys put an airlock on your fermenters? If so how do you do it on a 32 gallon one?

No airlock for me. I usually just put the lid on. If it’s fruit fly season I’ll cover it in a square of vapour barrier with weights on the corners to keep it on.

[GCB3]

I typically use air locks on my smaller 6 gallon bucket’s since they are easy to seal and they’re already pre-drilled for air locks with the grommets. On my larger fermenters, I rarely use them. After 24 to 48 hours I normally lift the lid and stick my nose in there to see if I get a snootful of CO2. If not, it’s time to do some trouble shooting.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I drilled a 1.5" hole in one of my lids. It fit a carboy bung perfectly.

But now, I dont even use airlocks anymore. I just put the lid on. Its tight enough to keep bugs out, but loose enough to let off pressure.

[Truckinbutch]

Do you guys put an airlock on your fermenters? If so how do you do it on a 32 gallon one?

With my double trash can / double bag method I punch 2-3 pencil lead size holes in the top bag . That vents pressure and as the bag collapses it traps a CO2 layer over the ferment to keep nasties out .