Very bad still design on Youtube

[LWTCS]

IMO he was just using George to build up his own subscribers. One thing in Jesse's favour was he went directly against George's advise on using PIDs. You could see he thought Georges advise was nonsense, but let him go just to be nice.

Link?

[tubbsy]

IMO he was just using George to build up his own subscribers. One thing in Jesse's favour was he went directly against George's advise on using PIDs. You could see he thought Georges advise was nonsense, but let him go just to be nice.

Link?

[zed255]

Frankly I like Jesse's channel, Still It. I think he did his research / reading as a new distiller and simply took his viewers on the journey of him learning the hobby. I caught onto his channel early on and have seen every video he has put out excepting the longer podcasts and live 'hangouts'. Is he an all-knowing expert? I don't believe so. Does he claim to be an expert? Not from what I have seen. For a YouTube video source, Jesse is much more sound than most others I've watched.

George on the other hand, and I like the earlier comment about him doing damage, comes off like an authority in many of his videos when he is not the expert he will appear to be to the new distiller. This is the real issue. He is too convincing. This is why we see so many new members joining and wondering why they get crapped on when they have gotten into bad information / examples, and not just from George either. The community at large is getting weary of undoing the damage these false prophets are doing to a hobby we would all like to legitimize.

Mind you, let us not hold ourselves too high either. There's plenty of bad or outdated information and ideas here that Google can dredge up and that too can confuse the novice.

[shadylane]

When you say something here that's questionable, It will be questioned
For some reason, all the comments on his youtube channel agree with him 100%

[malt_gt_milton]

Something that needs to change here is the fact that so much of the good information is buried in pages and pages of posts. Often times the correct information changes 2 or 3 times in the same thread. It's easy to get confused reading through a 15 page thread and keeping the facts straight. There should be information updates in the first post to keep the correct information up front. Look at how many times the UJSSM recipe has changed since it was first posted. The procedures as well.

If I (noob) may be so bold, 6 Row's comment hits home the hardest for me. Consider:
• Just as 6 Row said. I myself would describe this (awesome) HD site as an encyclopedia with all the pages torn out and scattered across 640 acres of farmland. There ought to be a PDF of Concise Best Practices for would-be safe practitioners, so they have a place to start and avoid disinformation from hither and yon. And/or, why doesn't HD have its own YouTube channel?
• Different people have different learning styles. Many learn better through multimedia (ie YouTube). For many it is far easier to flip through YouTube and watch someone do a distillation demo -- from bag of sugar to glass of hooch -- than to poke and read without really knowing what they are looking for. And then, as many of you have pointed out here, they learn some bad habits.
• When people totally new to the craft are trying to determine which sources are credible and which ones are less so, PUSH (YouTube) can be far more effective and convincing then PULL (HD). For better or worse, persuasive personalities show thorough quicker on a video that in writing. I'm sure some of you can attest to the dangers of leaving autoplay turned on on YT.

From what I have read here over the past months, you all on this site (HD) seem to be *the* authoritative source for Best Practices for the ever-evolving craft of home distillation. This blog format works for many but not all, and the world moves on. Rumor has it there are even talking pictures in the (empty) theaters these days.

OK, ready for flack, let 'er rip fellers!

malt_gt_milton

[NZChris]

Have you tried herding cats?

[shadylane]

Have you tried herding cats?

Hell, that's as easy using a rope to push a car

[Saltbush Bill]

Just as 6 Row said. I myself would describe this (awesome) HD site as an encyclopedia with all the pages torn out and scattered across 640 acres of farmland.

6 row also seemed to think that it was of huge benefit to this hobby that thousands had decided to take up distilling on a whim because they had watched some fairy tale on TV.
It could well be these same folk are the ones who find it to difficult to spend some time reading through threads and finding the information they need.
Seems to be that people these days want everything instantly at their fingertips and for everything to be handed to them on a silver platter.
I'm a member of 6 different distilling forums plus two more that pertain to other hobbys that I have.
Each and every one of those forums works on a very similar principal and lay out as this one does.
The simple fact is that on all of them, you have to do some work to find what you want. If your truly into the hobby you will take the time and make the effort.
Those who cant be bothered seem to prefer to watch people dish out misinformation by the bucket full on Youtube.......at the end of the day we are all free to make our own choices.

[shadylane]

Some folks like to be entertained
Some of us, like to be educated

[tubbsy]

I've been a member of dozens of forums over the past 20 years. One observation I've made about HD and other distilling forums is the frequency and speed at which a new member is told to search the forum. I have seen it in other unrelated forums but not to the extent of distilling.

Also seemingly common among distilling forums is needing to post a welcome. Not once in 20 years have I joined a forum that required that.

[shadylane]

Also seemingly common among distilling forums is needing to post a welcome. Not once in 20 years have I joined a forum that required that.

This one didn't at first.
Having said that, I'd say it's a good idea

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

It's so entertaining to me how many people come in here in their first year and exclaim how this is the most informative and best source of information for distilling, and in the same breath list reasons we should change it to something else.

Knowledge is hard earned. The reason you can't put everything in a pdf is becuase tomorrow it would be different, and I for one ain't changing it over and over. We are not a service, we are a community. You have to submerge yourself, and then you will find just how easy it is to find random information here. Usually what I see is newbies with information overload that want it simplified. To them I say, I get it, I been there. The first year of study is a whirlwind. But when it finally clicks it's like seeing the coding of the Matrix. The weeds clear and you see the meadow. This is one of the easiest and cleanest forums to navigate that I've been in. Kinda ruins other layouts for me, tbh. Maybe I just spend too much time here, lol.

[MtRainier]

Send someone to shadylane's workshop with a camera.

I'd watch a youtube channel of his works in progress for sure or just a rundown of the various builds he has posted here. I bet his inventory of extra parts would be entertaining to see as well.

I'd also like to see a progress video of the beautiful flutes that emptyglass makes to see how he gets them so perfect and shiny.

[jward]

It seems some knowledge is pretty much book learning and you have to read a lot for basic principles and fundamentals. Some stuff one is better off being shown. Some stuff you have to learn by doing it yourself.

Given how much more difficult it is to unlearn than learn I am glad for the spoon feeding section here.

[DetroitDIY]

I agree with the comments that the digging and reading and information immersion helps a) deter some folks who just want a quick answer without a good understanding, and b) helps those who slog through it better understand the subject, hear different opinions, and form their own understanding better.

Also, distilling out all the good info in here from the myriad of redundant questions/discussions, developing ideas and banter among friends... and keeping it up to date sounds like a very daunting prospect. To have a chance, it may need to be some kind of community wiki where multiple folks contribute and correct one another and such. Again, sounds daunting, and a lot of work for some administrators.

That said, I think there WOULD be a lot of value in finding a way to pull the good information to the fore, and consolidate it. It occurs to me that it could be done on-line, and possibly evolve into a book (lord knows there's enough good info about here to write 10 books), and the proceeds from such a book could go to supporting HD.org. Would be a nice way for us to give back to UJ and all the administrators/moderators. Could also be newsletters on a semi annual basis that provide the latest updates in a cleaned up manner.

Again, it would be a crap ton of work, but there is a ton of good info buried in here, and there is a lot of value in that good info.

[hellbilly007]

As malt_gt_milton mentioned leaving YouTube on autoplay I was reminded of a good laugh. I fell asleep while watching one of the Popcorn Sutton docs to be woke up by my girlfriend asking what the hell I was watching. Upon opening my eyes there was a man in a bikini showing how he runs his still. She still gives me a hard time about every now and then.

*Disclaimer* I firmly believe in to each their own. I don't judge.

Back to the subject matter of this thread. I believe everyone owes it to themselves to due their own research when it comes to producing something that they are putting in their body. Just because a doctor says it's safe doesn't necessarily mean that it is. They call a doctor's office a "practice" for a reason

[LWTCS]

Of course it would convenient to have the most up to date, comprehensive information instantly at your finger tips while being able to even further get to the level info that you are specifically looking for even though you don't exactly know what you're looking for because you do not yet know what you don't know.
Yes it would be wonderful if someone could sift through all of that and organize it in the order that you need for that day.

This forum evolves daily. This forum has very high traffic flow. Administrators here now and in the past have lives too.

I nominate you for that housekeeping job....
Who is you? Whoever reckons it should be any other way other than what it already is or what it should be.

[LWTCS]

Complaining about various opinions or what is right or wrong (past and present) is a wasted opportunity.
What you should be doing is finding common denominators with each post. Finding results that correlate with your own experience.
Each post is a slightly different perspective or way to view the subject matter.
Notwithstanding some of the random chatter, each post usually represents someone's personal experience and right or wrong will still serve to enhance another members perspective.

[cranky]

Some years back I did a kind of guide to help new people find the links to the basic information at a time the site seemed rather disorganized. It took me something like an entire year to sort that out. The spoon feeding thread has now become a bit dated but largely it still points people in the right direction. Of course there was also a much needed major overhaul of the parent site and I think the wiki is an eternal work in progress but the basic info is now much easier to find than it once was.

As far as a youtube channel that was the basic idea that got Still It started, I think it's sad that Jesse now seems to be in league with George and doesn't call out any of his bullshit. I think several members here, myself included, would be happy to start a real informative youtube channel if this hobby were legal but it isn't and doesn't look like it will be anytime soon. If I had a channel I'd travel around the country talking to various members about their particular skill and methods as well as the stills they use and the proper ways to use them but again it's not legal and I am not willing to come out of the closet as it were.

[malt_gt_milton]

Saltbush, totally get your point that folks ought to be willing to invest the time to read and learn, and about the generally low quality of distilling info on YouTube. Plz stay tuned for a thought about that.

Shadylane, entertainment versus education, good point. And yet, isn't making quality spirits as a hobby entertainment?

Tubbsy: agreed this forum is unique, tho I'll admit to feeling awkward about posting a welcome message which is why it took me so long
since I joined -- probably true for others too, but agree its a good idea.

ShineonCrazyDiamond: seems like your comments were for me especially, well put and I take them to heart. Not forgetting I am
new here (joined 6 mo ago) I do sense the community and camaraderie which is refreshing. As for things finally clicking, when I got fermentation, stripping & spirit runs of simple washes down and consistent, I felt that. Although its a narrow path compared to what you all are doing with complex AG recipes and etc.

DetroitDIY: I suspect you may have a future in writing and editing... but suspect you would also get some help.

hellbilly007: glimpsed the same bikini/hooch video. Still working out a recovery plan.

LWTCS: good point, which I interpret to mean: complaining, or recommending a different approach without actually taking it up ones self, at a minimum misses the point of the site.

AND here is the thing: how much to you all want hobby spirits to become legal, where you live? I do, in the USA. Although I have not had that goal as long as many of you have probably. What will it take? Responsible people doing it responsibly. Policing themselves, and the noobs. Most industries have their industry groups that do exactly that. And the noobs who are starting out watching YouTube? And buying cheap ready-made Chinese stills, some with thumpers and rubber seals and closed systems and whatnot? Without guidance, THOSE could wreck it for all of us. They aren't that different than the people who bought the cheap, no-knowledge-required self-stabilizing drones that have become the bane of the radio control modelers. Because *some* of these guys take their purchase out of the box and fly it straight into the flight path of a landing Boeing 767. Of course the guys who have been building and flying for decades would never do something dumb like that, because they are invested in it, and have acquired knowledge, skills, and hardware over time. But they were mostly disconnected from this noob lot, because they were like old and water. Right now, the FCC wants all model airplane radios to transmit serial numbers, so they can see which a$$h01e is the one who nearly downs an airliner. Guess who is not happy about that, and understandably so.

One final note: for what its worth, I personally like what Jessey at Still It is doing. And while I am also troubled by some of what George at B&H is doing, I argue he is putting it out there in a way few of us are, or can: please hear me out. His motto on his channel is "This is the channel that *dares* to unlock all those mysteries of home distilling." It requires brass ones to tell everyone your name, email address and phone number while operating a still on camera. I suspect that in part, no one has messed with George because George is a veteran of the United States Army, recently retiring as Master Sergeant after faithfully serving his country for a third of a century. I don't know about you fellers, but I suspect if you or I put out videos like that, we may get more attention than George so far has. It may behoove this movement to see George as a unique (if quirky) ally, and engage him and guide him. Just my $0.02.

cranky: BTW, your "We want you to be safe and succeed so start here" link is broke, just FYI. I for one could benefit from a gander at it.

Sorry if I missed anyone or any points previously made.

malt_gt_milton

[NZChris]

I don't feel any obligation to suffer fools just because they have taken up an interest in a hobby that I'm interested in, especially when they haven't done their homework and convey poorly researched nonsense as Gospel Truth for gullible newbies.

[LWTCS]

Thoughtful post malt_gt_milton.
George does have a good delivery style. Comes across very well.
Though George isn't unlocking any mysterious secrets with what he is doing. He is creating confusion. He may be drifting toward some truth, but then invariably he drifts away.
Throwing two molecules of truth around an untruthful molecule does not render 3 molecules of truth.
His "cuts" are not as strict and clean as his fans think they are, and they (nor he) seem to know any better.

[cranky]

cranky: BTW, your "We want you to be safe and succeed so start here" link is broke, just FYI. I for one could benefit from a gander at it.

Thank you for that, it's fixed now. You may have already read through it, it is a link to the spoon feeding thread.

[arentwejusthere]

I've always been curious if George knows about HD.org, or if anyone from HD.org has reached out to him.

[zach]

This guy been staying busy during the shelter in place.

Since I watched the video with funky green enamel boiler by accident, he's made these winners

1) Why aluminium is a good choice for a boiler.

2) How to make a carbon filter for my crappy shine.

3) More on PID's to slow down and fuck up my still control.

4) Look at my glass tower bubbler with the red silicone gaskets.

Today a new member on this site introduced himself and said he was building a PID for his still control.

It is sad that he has a large following while promoting poor choices and designs. He certainly doesn't help the case for legalization of this hobby.

[METALHEAD81]

It's so entertaining to me how many people come in here in their first year and exclaim how this is the most informative and best source of information for distilling, and in the same breath list reasons we should change it to something else.

Knowledge is hard earned. The reason you can't put everything in a pdf is becuase tomorrow it would be different, and I for one ain't changing it over and over. We are not a service, we are a community. You have to submerge yourself, and then you will find just how easy it is to find random information here. Usually what I see is newbies with information overload that want it simplified. To them I say, I get it, I been there. The first year of study is a whirlwind. But when it finally clicks it's like seeing the coding of the Matrix. The weeds clear and you see the meadow. This is one of the easiest and cleanest forums to navigate that I've been in. Kinda ruins other layouts for me, tbh. Maybe I just spend too much time here, lol.

Almost as entertaining as the “masters” throwing tantrums about repetitive questions. Weird how a dumb question from 2011
was discussed and worked out with respect. Now when the same question comes up it’s expected a newcomer has read 10 years worth of posts. Mind you the limitations of the search function. IE: how often one can search and “too common” phrases or “not enough characters” try searching DAP or other acronyms. Suggestions for Improvment? Absurd! ‘Must maintain status, must make difficult to learn to weed out stupid people’
‘Oh you must have Mis read that hydrometer, surely you meant 1.065 and not 1.65 otherwise your just a fucking MORON And shouldn’t be distilling anything because your going to kill yourself and everyone within a 5 mile radius because you cant read a *ucking hydrometer’

It’s been said above ,
This is a community. If a “tried and true” doesn’t get perfected till Page 29, maybe make It the responsibility of the poster to update their recipe. As a community service, for their “honor” of being tried and true. Who says it’s gotta be a mod?

I’ve learned equal good info from George AND here, like checks and balances. (Some of you “subjects” may not understand) Though some of y’all calling George all wrong is all wrong yourselves. He ain’t all right, but neither is this place, and he ain’t all wrong either. You wanna be the go to joint for info, consider making it more hospitable, otherwise this place is no better than B&H.

[Saltbush Bill]

You've been distilling and building for a month, and you want to change a forum that has functioned perfectly well for years.
Your not the first with that attitude and wont be the last.
The majority of people who use this forum are happy with it as is.
Those that are serious about this hobby usually stay and contribute to the forum , Others make a few posts , complain a lot, then drift off to some other hobby.
There is and always has been a few that don't fit in.
If your that unhappy with the way things work around here Id suggest you find another avenue with as much information to learn from.
I'm sure you remember how you got in here ......its just as easy to find your way out.

[Corsaire]

We don't look down on new members, it's why we have a novice section. We do expect people to put in some research.

That can be frustrating, but frustrating is better than promoting a boiler made of aluminum or enamel, with rubber inner tire tubes for seals.
Or you know, frustrating to see why your still doesn't behave like it should.

The nature of forums is inherently chaotic.

[NZChris]

I’ve learned equal good info from George AND here, like checks and balances. (Some of you “subjects” may not understand) Though some of y’all calling George all wrong is all wrong yourselves. He ain’t all right, but neither is this place, and he ain’t all wrong either. You wanna be the go to joint for info, consider making it more hospitable, otherwise this place is no better than B&H.

I would never say that everything that George says is wrong, because it isn't. I would never say that everything here is correct because it isn't. There are no garbage men throwing out the trash on Youtube, or here, or anywhere else on the net, so it's up to you to sort out who has it right, not to George or some highly educated and qualified, unpaid, volunteer on HD.

I've got better things to do with my days than spoon feeding every needy newbie that comes here with an attitude and can't be bothered putting in a fraction of the research I've done to hone my skills to what they are now. Maybe you should take on that challenge when you know everything?

[LWTCS]

It's so entertaining to me how many people come in here in their first year and exclaim how this is the most informative and best source of information for distilling, and in the same breath list reasons we should change it to something else.

Knowledge is hard earned. The reason you can't put everything in a pdf is becuase tomorrow it would be different, and I for one ain't changing it over and over. We are not a service, we are a community. You have to submerge yourself, and then you will find just how easy it is to find random information here. Usually what I see is newbies with information overload that want it simplified. To them I say, I get it, I been there. The first year of study is a whirlwind. But when it finally clicks it's like seeing the coding of the Matrix. The weeds clear and you see the meadow. This is one of the easiest and cleanest forums to navigate that I've been in. Kinda ruins other layouts for me, tbh. Maybe I just spend too much time here, lol.

Almost as entertaining as the “masters” throwing tantrums about repetitive questions. Weird how a dumb question from 2011
was discussed and worked out with respect. Now when the same question comes up it’s expected a newcomer has read 10 years worth of posts. Mind you the limitations of the search function. IE: how often one can search and “too common” phrases or “not enough characters” try searching DAP or other acronyms. Suggestions for Improvment? Absurd! ‘Must maintain status, must make difficult to learn to weed out stupid people’
‘Oh you must have Mis read that hydrometer, surely you meant 1.065 and not 1.65 otherwise your just a fucking MORON And shouldn’t be distilling anything because your going to kill yourself and everyone within a 5 mile radius because you cant read a *ucking hydrometer’ Don't be so thick. And would help your cause if you would stop with the drama

It’s been said above ,
This is a community. If a “tried and true” doesn’t get perfected till Page 29, maybe make It the responsibility of the poster to update their recipe. As a community service, for their “honor” of being tried and true. Who says it’s gotta be a mod?

I’ve learned equal good info from George AND here, like checks and balances. (Some of you “subjects” may not understand) Though some of y’all calling George all wrong is all wrong yourselves. He ain’t all right, but neither is this place, and he ain’t all wrong either. You wanna be the go to joint for info, consider making it more hospitable, otherwise this place is no better than B&H.

Show me the quote where someone said George is ALL wrong