I learned a good lesson today

[PoppaW]

I was set to strip my second batch of popcorn and barley. Tossed the first 200ml then collected everything. Separated the tails as my 1.8l mason was full. Tasted the big jar and if I would have pulled some heads off I think it would have been a one and done ready to age. I will always separate the heads now just in case. I just hope when I run it the second time it is better.

[Truckinbutch]

I take some heads on every strip for that very reason .

[cranky]

I always take a center cut sample to see what I think, occasionally I save that cut.

[PoppaW]

As I am learning I need to sample more. I realize this and I am slowly getting better all all things related to stills. My favourite thing to do is see how the aging works and sample every day. I guess if I keep a small jar of center hearts I can play with that and see what’s up. So much to learn.

[n_plains_drifter]

This is good insight for me as well. I'm brand new with a handful of strips and one spirit run under my belt. I'm trying to figure out how to blend my cuts from my first run and fairly confused.

[StillerBoy]

This is good insight for me as well. I'm brand new with a handful of strips and one spirit run under my belt. I'm trying to figure out how to blend my cuts from my first run and fairly confused.

This thread should help plus their a link to a good another thread.. there many other threads here on cuts, just google them..

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11913

That's the nature of this hobby.. so many different ways of doing spirits, it's never ends..

Mars

[kimbodious]

This is good insight for me as well. I'm brand new with a handful of strips and one spirit run under my belt. I'm trying to figure out how to blend my cuts from my first run and fairly confused.

If you are having trouble making the cuts between obvious head, obvious hearts and obvious tails then maybe those components were smeared through the run. If you believe that is the issue you could dilute the spirit and run it again through your still a bit more slowly. It is a good opportunity to practise so early in the hobby.

But maybe you can pick where the obvious heads hearts and tails are but can’t exactly pick the cut points? That is where I am at even after some years of home distilling. It is where the art of the craft lies I believe.

I have developed some processes and assumptions that help me try and make the best of it. I don’t know how sound my approach is but it seems to work for me.

I don’t make cuts after I have started drinking. That can wait until later
I gently draw the odour in my nose instead of sniffing deeply because I temporarily fry my sense of smell if I do.
I start from the middle jar and work towards tails.
I mix a teaspoon of spirit and a teaspoon of water in a wine glass and swirl before sniffing then tasting.
I don’t swallow
I rinse my mouth twice with some water.
Any jar that is deemed to be “nice” is moved to the “keep” position. All my jars start lined up in a row and by the end the “keep” jars are in a new row, usually forward.
Working out from the middle to heads but of course you don’t need to taste the middle jar if it is already a “keeper”.
I am watching out for the mouth-drying-puckering wooden tongue sensation that I associate with heads. I reject any jar with that character and all jars from earlier in the run.
Slightly tailsy jars often make the “keep” line because tails often dissipates during ageing leaving the other flavours.
I reject anything that I am suspicious of having heads. I really can’t stand any hint of heads.
I make an estimation of the total volume in the “keep” line and set up enough demijons to store that volume plus 20% extra for airspace.
I’ll mix a few jars in a jug and then pour equal amounts in to each demijon so that all the demijons end up having the same blend. This gives me the opportunity to investigate different woods and levels of wood using the same blend.
Before adding wood etc, I’ll choose a demijon at random and measure and record the temperature-corrected ABV.

My maxim is, if in doubt chuck it out along the same model of “the fish John West reject makes it the best”

[StillsNMash]

This is good insight for me as well. I'm brand new with a handful of strips and one spirit run under my belt. I'm trying to figure out how to blend my cuts from my first run and fairly confused.

If you are having trouble making the cuts between obvious head, obvious hearts and obvious tails then maybe those components were smeared through the run. If you believe that is the issue you could dilute the spirit and run it again through your still a bit more slowly. It is a good opportunity to practise so early in the hobby.

But maybe you can pick where the obvious heads hearts and tails are but can’t exactly pick the cut points? That is where I am at even after some years of home distilling. It is where the art of the craft lies I believe.

I have developed some processes and assumptions that help me try and make the best of it. I don’t know how sound my approach is but it seems to work for me.

I don’t make cuts after I have started drinking. That can wait until later
I gently draw the odour in my nose instead of sniffing deeply because I temporarily fry my sense of smell if I do.
I start from the middle jar and work towards tails.
I mix a teaspoon of spirit and a teaspoon of water in a wine glass and swirl before sniffing then tasting.
I don’t swallow
I rinse my mouth twice with some water.
Any jar that is deemed to be “nice” is moved to the “keep” position. All my jars start lined up in a row and by the end the “keep” jars are in a new row, usually forward.
Working out from the middle to heads but of course you don’t need to taste the middle jar if it is already a “keeper”.
I am watching out for the mouth-drying-puckering wooden tongue sensation that I associate with heads. I reject any jar with that character and all jars from earlier in the run.
Slightly tailsy jars often make the “keep” line because tails often dissipates during ageing leaving the other flavours.
I reject anything that I am suspicious of having heads. I really can’t stand any hint of heads.
I make an estimation of the total volume in the “keep” line and set up enough demijons to store that volume plus 20% extra for airspace.
I’ll mix a few jars in a jug and then pour equal amounts in to each demijon so that all the demijons end up having the same blend. This gives me the opportunity to investigate different woods and levels of wood using the same blend.
Before adding wood etc, I’ll choose a demijon at random and measure and record the temperature-corrected ABV.

My maxim is, if in doubt chuck it out along the same model of “the fish John West reject makes it the best”

Great methodology. Grand theft good idea okay?

-Stills.

[kimbodious]

Sure, I would have borrowed it from some forum or other so I am not claiming ownership. It works for me, just thought it could help someone else.

[n_plains_drifter]

Stiller- thanks for the link to that thread, I'd seen (and read and re-read) Kiwi's great post on cuts, this one has more info on the differences btw the still types, and it confirmed what I pretty much figured out while trying to make cuts. I did a bunch of math, and managed to extract most of the alcohol from the run, but I missed big time on thinking about the calculations to size the volume for collection jars.

kimbodius- Great, detailed post. Thank you. Truth be told, I probably got in over my head, as I often do. I've got enough beer and wine experience that the fermentation stuff was old hat. I used half a 6 gal sugar wash for sacrificial and then did my first real strip with the other half. That is waiting on the 45 l of Bird wash, and I just finished the second strip on that, so now I have 10-12 l for a spirit run, probably tomorrow or the next day.

A week before the initial strips, I went big and went after my ultimate goal: fully mashed corn whiskey with no added sugar. Got lucky and nailed it, hit my gravity within a coupe of points, fermented to about 0.997, running about 9.1% I ended up with about 30 l of beer, first strip puked. Then I stripped the 20 l of nice and clear, combined them and did the spirit. My issue was that I was collecting too much volume per container based upon my total availalble ABV and only ended up with 10 jars after methanol and fores cuts.

So in addition to the potstill smear, I didn't allow enough gradation between collection jars to really allow me to make precise cuts. I've got about a liter of what I'd call hearts, front end has some smeared heads, 6th jar is getting tailsy, 7th might be a throw away.. I've already sent jars 8-10 into the feints jug. One and two are definitely super heads, but funny thing is that one is less offensive than two.

But here's my end all: I'll take 250 of my cleanest for some white dog, throw a dart at a board for the fractions for my oaking batch, and call it a win!

I may not share much since it'll probably be rough, but hey! it's mine and the culmination of an idea that got hatched in college many many years ago when I was a chemistry major.

Best, Drifter

[StillerBoy]

I may not share much since it'll probably be rough, but hey! it's mine and the culmination of an idea that got hatched in college many many years ago when I was a chemistry major.

That why the hobby is often referred to the "rabbit hole".. to experience all there is to learn in the hobby will take a life time..

It takes many tries before our mind gets to understand what it is we want to do, then a few more to proof we are on the right path.. and that happen in all the four stages of the hobby..

Welcome to the beginning of what is an enjoying journey..

Mars

[n_plains_drifter]

It takes many tries before our mind gets to understand what it is we want to do, then a few more to proof we are on the right path.. and that happen in all the four stages of the hobby..


Mars

Stiller, Thank you for the welcome. Would you provide more detail on the 4 stages? Fermentation, Distilling, Cuts/ blending, Aging?

[The Baker]

Four stages:

Thinking about it.
Doing it poorly.
Doing it well.
Aging (senility).

Geoff

[StillerBoy]

Would you provide more detail on the 4 stages? Fermentation, Distilling, Cuts/ blending, Aging?

Over the years I've come to view the requirements of the hobby in four stages, with each one requiring it's own learning and understand of what's required to be done..

There's many task involve in developing the proper method of any ferments.. in making a sugar wash, one has to learn to balance the necessary ingredients with the yeast used, match the yeast used with it's preferred temp, and maintaining that preferred temp along with a preferred Ph level..

That why making a sugar wash in a very good entry level ferment.. it teaches a person to become mindful of all the tasks and process required to achieve a result that can be reproduced.. and by developing a process, it teaches the why and how to correct a wash that has gone astray..

Once a person has learned and understand the requirement a sugar wash, then the next forward is doing as all grain mash.. in all grain mash, though many of the requirement for a sugar wash are very similar, there is lots of difference.. the mashing requirement is a learning experience of it's own, and not to be discounted is the different mixing of grains and how they behave or react with each other..

Distilling is an art, meaning two unit, be a pot still or a one of the many different reflux column, will have it own requirement to "dialing it in".. which is why, in part, lots of beginners have problem with a pot still and more so with a reflux column, as there is so many variable, similar but not similar..

Then there's the stripping and spiriting of the finished ferment.. is one stripping to retain flavor or for making neutral, as the cut off of the overall average will variate.. and once one has the low wine, again is it to a semi-neutral or full flavor finished product.. many variable available to the distiller to produced the finish product..

Then come the collecting of cuts and later the blending of the cuts.. the cuts or better way of stating it, is the amount of jars to be used and the amount per jar collected.. using a pot still the amounts and number of jars will be determine in large part by the boiler load and the abv of the load.. again the method used for collecting with a pot still will be similar but different when using a reflux column..

Then learning to blend the cuts obtain from the run.. how long to air the jars, where does one start from and how to sample a cut.. usually it is best to air for a few days, then start to sample from the middle and working back, then working the front ones.. making a sample of each jar, then learn to smell and taste and blend..

And then come ageing of the finished blend.. what wood is to be used.. what roast and char.. what amount or size to used.. and for how long..

Mars