ceramic rings meant for using in an aquarium

[Kansas]

I have a 3" to 2" reducer for my keg boiler. A scrubbie on top of that has so problem keeping the 6 pounds in the column and the reducer holds the scrubbie. With the half inch rings I have trouble getting the column to flood with my 5500w element. I'm loving them. In my limited experience they outperform both marbles and scrubbies.

[OtisT]

Kansas, Thanks for sharing your upper end power limit with the 1/2” rings. My quarter inch rings flood too fast, somewhere in the low-mid 2000w range. I don’t want to run my 3” near the top of my power limit, so I think I should give the 3/8“ rings a shot. That should allow me to run un-flooded around 3000-3500 watts which is where I think I want to be for my VM head.

Otis

[NineInchNails]

Kansas, Thanks for sharing your upper end power limit with the 1/2” rings. My quarter inch rings flood too fast, somewhere in the low-mid 2000w range. I don’t want to run my 3” near the top of my power limit, so I think I should give the 3/8“ rings a shot. That should allow me to run un-flooded around 3000-3500 watts which is where I think I want to be for my VM head.

Otis

Any new info regarding the ceramic ring sizes? I have a 3" VM with a 5'-6' column and I was about to purchase some of these 1/2" rings. Do you think the 3/8" or 1/2" would be ideal? I haven't found any that's 3/8". All I've found is 1/2", 5/8" and 3/4".

I typically do spirit runs between 2000W-3000W 36%-54% power with a 5500W element. My goal is to make the cleanest neutral I can. I've heard people say that SPP performs best with a flooded column if I recall correctly.

EDIT: Oh well, I just ordered 10# of 1/2".

[NineInchNails]

Yesterday I received the 1/2" Ceramic Rings. I thoroughly rinsed the rings, filled my 5.5' x 3" VM column then ran water down through the column again for a couple of minutes. My column is very well insulated with Lowes, rubbery foam pipe insulation and I wrapped my boiler completely with a cotton sleeping bag. I’m sure the column’s first heat-up will take quite a while because the packing is wet, cold, the packing is saturated, but well drained. I loaded the boiler with 3 gal of 1st Gen UJSSM and some Vodka that was sub-par. Diluted down to 30% approx 12-13 gal boiler charge. I don’t expect any foreshots, only heads, hearts and tails. In all honesty, I ran with this packing last night, I made hasty coarse power changes (probably too quickly) and was unhappy with % purity as it was anywhere from 91%-93%. I got frustrated testing lower power to higher power until I completely flooded my column. I got pissed and just shut down for the night. I used to get 95% purity consistently until my copper packing started getting loose and purity started dropping.

Today I installed a 3” sight glass beneath the VM tee so now I can see the rate of reflux for the very first time, but unfortunately it currently has a crappy centering collar that isn’t optimal and I’ll replace very soon. Cool a better plan this time! I heated up the boiler at 100% power 5500W until the boiler reached 170F. To keep this short … I over powered my column heat-up and started going in circles again by not systematically and slowly stepping up the power so I started all over again.

I reduced power to 10% 550W and equilibrated for 10 min and no flooding sound was coming from any portion of the column. I cracked open the valve, sampled and purity was 93.5%.

I increased power to 15% 825W and equilibrated for 10 min and no flooding sound was coming from the base of the column. I cracked open the valve, sampled and purity was 94% with NO flooding. Now we’re getting somewhere.

I increased power to 20% 1100W and equilibrated for 5 min and noticed the lower portion of the column started to flood a bit.

I reduced power to 17% 935W, gave the column some time to settle down. The very bottom 6” of the column sounded flooded so I equilibrated for 10 min. The bottom 6” sounds bubbly still. I cracked open the valve, sampled and purity was 95.5%. FINALLY ! ! !

I increased power to 19% 1045W, started equilibrating and more of the column started to flood. After 10 min, 2’ of the column was flooded. I cracked open the valve, started sampling and soon nearly 1/2 the lower column became flooded. I continued sampling and purity was 95%. YES ! ! !
Now I tried to increase take-off speed to a somewhat solid stream while remaining at 19% power 1045W and see if I can continue with 95% purity. After sampling the purity was 94.5%.

I reduced power down to 17% 935W and tried to increase take-off speed to nearly a solid stream. Sample’s purity was 94%
The trick appears to be initial heat-up and SLOWLY allowing the vapor to rise up the column, not over-power it and therefore not flood the column. You have to learn your own still by starting at very low power, equilibrate, sample and step up in relatively small increments. Ceramic rings do not appear to work as well when flooded and the % purity drops.

I’m curious if perhaps larger Ceramic Rings would be less finicky, less potential for flooding and more appropriate. Typically more efficient packing like SPP are significantly smaller, but perhaps due to the porosity of these ceramic rings, maybe larger packing is actually ideal. I might send these 1/2” rings back, try 3/4" and test those. If 1/2" performs best then I’ll just return the 3/4" and buy the 1/2" again. That’s why I pay $200 annually for Amazon Prime, free no-hassle returns.

Here are 11/16” x 5/8” Ceramic Rings

Here are eBay 3/4” dia x 0.7” long Ceramic Rings. Only problem is, these are not hassle free returns like Amazon. I'll be searching Amazon for 3/4".

[ideasinbeer]

NiN well this is getting interesting. Are you planning to run the other tests any time soon? You may have answered my questions.

[shadylane]

NIN
There must be something going on for a 3 inch column to flood at such a low power.
Just guessing it should take 3000w or more to cause flooding.
On my 4" with 96" of packing it takes over 6000w before it starts acting up.
I've got a 4" X 32"ish glass column, guess I need to do some test runs and see what happens.

[NineInchNails]

NIN
There must be something going on for a 3 inch column to flood at such a low power.
Just guessing it should take 3000w or more to cause flooding.
On my 4" with 96" of packing it takes over 6000w before it starts acting up.
I've got a 4" X 32"ish glass column, guess I need to do some test runs and see what happens.

I hear ya. The vapor speed calculators say I should stay between 2000W-3000W 36%-54%. I tried that last night and I kept flooding and getting pissed off. I'm running at 17% 935W now and getting 95% at an interrupted stream. Very strange. There might be something I'm overlooking here, that or maybe just the nature of this packing? That's why I was considering the 3/4" stuff so I can open er up more. I don't know if that would be beneficial or not.

Well I've been wondering if my math for my EZboil conversion of % power to watts is correct, but my math appears to be correct. I even made an Excel calculator. I enter my element watts 5500, enter % power the EZboil states 50% and the calculator says I'm running at 2750W. I confirmed with the EZboil manual and it confirms that is how you convert its reading to watts. I just don't know what's going on here. I'm using this element right now.

After my previous test, I tossed everything back into the boiler and I'm running it at 17% power and periodically confirming 95% purity. So far so good.

By the way this ceramic packing is resting on copper wire grills 1/4" spacing at the base of each segment of my column. They aren't 'grids', they are 1/4" spaced parallel to each other. I wonder if these are choking points and if I should have not made grills, made a simple cris cross, placed a scrubber on there and packing on top. I only have 3 rolls of copper mesh and they are at the very base of the column.

I have 3 centering collars in the lower segments of my column, but they are of wide open design and over 1" above the packing.

It's been a LONG day, but I'm still pushing forward.

[WithOrWithoutU2]

NIN,

Hope it gets better for you.

Thanks for sharing. I for one am interested in how it works out for you as I've had my eye on these ceramic rings as well.

[shadylane]

Throw away the centering collars and forget what the "EZboil manual" tells you about power.
If you think something may be a choking point, it definitely is.

[NineInchNails]

Throw away the centering collars and forget what the "EZboil manual" tells you about power.
If you think something may be a choking point, it definitely is.

Absolutely will do.

I intend to toss what I've collected back into the boiler ... again.

I'll remove all centering collars. I understand they are not necessary since glass columns have supposedly proven so.

I'll remove the grills supporting the packing and revamp them to be a simple criss cross, a scrubber on top and then the Ceramic Packing and start ALL OVER AGAIN tomorrow

Strange note. I checked my distilling log and found that when I do pot still spirit runs ... the magic number coincidentally happens to be 17% power to produce an interrupted stream.

I got some work to do. Will report back tomorrow. Thanks for your input, MUCH appreciated

[acfixer69]

Throw away the centering collars and forget what the "EZboil manual" tells you about power.
If you think something may be a choking point, it definitely is.

Agree with shady lose the centering collars, as tall as that column is in the pic. Is this a column of packed then a plated section, then a packed section. I haven't been following as close as others.

[acfixer69]

On the puter now an see the mid section is a foil rap instillation.

[NineInchNails]

Throw away the centering collars and forget what the "EZboil manual" tells you about power.
If you think something may be a choking point, it definitely is.

Agree with shady lose the centering collars, as tall as that column is in the pic. Is this a column of packed then a plated section, then a packed section. I haven't been following as close as others.

It's just a 5.5' 3" packed column. A VM still.

I have removed the centering collars (except for the one above the sight glass and modified the packing support 'grills' to be a simple criss cross with a scrubber on top supporting the 1/2" ceramic packing.

I'm starting all over again and will thoroughly document as I did before, but this time starting at 17% power and scaling up power slowly.

[NineInchNails]

On the puter now an see the mid section is a foil rap instillation.

Yes, I ran out of that MUCH better foam insulation so I left that crappy Reflectix on there. I just trippled the thickness just for fun while I'm doing this test. I'll be getting a stick of the good stuff and replace that crap ASAP.

[acfixer69]

The armaflex type pipe insulation is amazing better, the weak stuff in the middle is not a good. If you have to use it at the top where the delta T is the least is the best place. I'm in the camp that some is better then none.

[NineInchNails]

The armaflex type pipe insulation is amazing better, the weak stuff in the middle is not a good. If you have to use it at the top where the delta T is the least is the best place. I'm in the camp that some is better then none.

The black insulation I used reminds me of neoprene. It's spongy, weak, rubbery foam, not that polyethylene foam. Looks like ArmaFlex to me. I got it at Lowes. MUCH better than that Reflectix stuff. FAR superior.

I just covered the T because I could. I figured it might allow a more accurate vapor temp and perhaps resist some passive reflux if that even matters.

[acfixer69]

The good stuff feels like stiff foam the depot stuff feels like a pool noodle if you been there. That reflextix rap has a use in our house just not around a pipe. Hope the next try is a better day.

[NineInchNails]

Thank you shadylane ! ! ! I needed that kick in the ass to ditch the $#@%&^ nonsense. I really appreciate your positive criticism and input.

I ditched the centering collars. I modified my 1/4” wide packing support ‘grills’ to be simple copper wire criss crosses with a SS scrubber over that and the 1/2” Ceramic Packing on top.

I poured everything back into the boiler. Fired it up, brought the column up to temp slowly and refluxed 100% for 30 min at 36% 1980W and absolutely NO FLOODING of the column whatsoever. I just broke my only $#@%&^ hydrometer so I ordered 2 more. Since I can’t test the purity anymore I figured I’d crank up the power and see what happens to end my suffering long day.

I cranked the power midway at 45% 2475W and go full reflux to see if anything floods. After 20 min there’s only a slight sound of flooding in the very lowest portion of the column which only houses 12” of copper mesh apparently wound too tight. I pulled another potato brain move there. Will fix that tomorrow.

I decided to crank the power to the max recommended vapor speed of 55% 3000W and check for any flooding. After 5 min 1/3 of the column started to flood. Huge success. The column is practically wide open now except for that copper that’s wound too tight. Well I’m done dicking you guys around until I get my new hydrometers so I can confirm whether or not I reach 95% purity (I’m sure it will because I'm getting a massive amount of reflux now) and at what power point is optimal with my 3” column.

Once again THANK YOU shadylane ! ! ! Your input has helped turned my struggles into a huge sigh of relief. Very much appreciated! I learned the hard way that ANY restriction is unnecessary and devastates performance. It's running like a totally totally different animal now.

[jonnys_spirit]

Looking forward to your measured results and any further detail. Tanks for sharing your journey NIN!

Cheers,
jonny

[hellbilly007]

NiN, that Dernord element you're using has been reported to test higher than the given rated wattage. I don't know if that plays a role in your issues with your column or not just figured it's worth a mention. I guess it's just a watt density issue.

[ideasinbeer]

This is a great read. Lots more science and a lot less opinion. Good on you NiN.

[seabass]

NiN, that Dernord element you're using has been reported to test higher than the given rated wattage. I don't know if that plays a role in your issues with your column or not just figured it's worth a mention. I guess it's just a watt density issue.

Funny you mention that. Mine approaches 5900 watts according to my cheap Chinese amp meter.

[NineInchNails]

NiN, that Dernord element you're using has been reported to test higher than the given rated wattage. I don't know if that plays a role in your issues with your column or not just figured it's worth a mention. I guess it's just a watt density issue.

Thank you. I didn't know that, but I don't think that could have caused the lack of performance I was experiencing. Turns out it was the packing resting directly on top of a copper wire grill that cause the restriction and flooding resulted. Now it's running free and clear and no flooding at all. Will report back once I get my new hydrometers. I broke the only one I had at the worst time too.

[shadylane]

Once again THANK YOU shadylane ! ! ! Your input has helped turned my struggles into a huge sigh of relief. Very much appreciated! I learned the hard way that ANY restriction is unnecessary and devastates performance. It's running like a totally totally different animal now.

I also learned the hard way about restrictions and centering rings

[pat_00]

This is an interesting thread, I am almost finished building my 3" VM/LM/Pot hybrid and am probably going to give this packing style a shot. I can get ceramic (sintered glass) 12mm x 12mm rings locally, this seems to be the only size available. I was hoping to get away with a shorter packed section than you though, my roof is not that high...

[NineInchNails]

This is an interesting thread, I am almost finished building my 3" VM/LM/Pot hybrid and am probably going to give this packing style a shot. I can get ceramic (sintered glass) 12mm x 12mm rings locally, this seems to be the only size available. I was hoping to get away with a shorter packed section than you though, my roof is not that high...

I listed a couple links to some 11/16" and 3/4" rings previously.

Please disregard my previous tests. Those results are meaningless after shadylane got me squared away. My still was choking & flooding, but NOT ANYMORE. Right after I got it all squared away I broke my damn hydrometer I can't restart my testing all over again until my new one arrives from Brewhaus. I can't wait! I'm confident it will have excellent results, but wait and see unless you are as impatient as I am.

To be honest, if 1/2" Ceramic Rings work great, I don't think I'll bother trying 3/4" or any other size. Well that is unless someone claims another size works better.

[NineInchNails]

I ordered 2 hydrometers from Brewhaus, but I'm too anxious. I just bought one from Amazon next day delivery so I should have some results tomorrow night

I should have done that days ago

[zed255]

If you only have one hydrometer it will get lonely and suicide on you when least expected. Where there are two or more you will have them forever.

[NineInchNails]

If you only have one hydrometer it will get lonely and suicide on you when least expected. Where there are two or more you will have them forever.

Yup, now I'll have 3 and none will probably ever get Epsteined. Same thing happened with my SG hydrometer. I ordered 2 from my favorite vendor, couldn't wait and bought one on Amazon. Now I have 3 of those and never broke one since. Knock on wood.

[UncleBuhlahkay]

I wonder if a 3" stainless mesh gasket at the base of the column where it meets the kettle would be a good "support" for the nearly 10# of aquarium rings in the column?