my setup

[Dancing4dan]

Here are a couple photos of what is going on lately. The photo is kinda busy but space is limited.

The pipe around the 2 inch still column is a weight. Its needed because the column is soldered to a copper ring and just sits over a hole in the pot lid. Flour and water make all of the seal needed for the column and pot lid. The lid is real thin and causes the column to "dance" a little when the element is on. Nothing major, just seemed funny so I named it Dancing Dan after a street character. It all comes apart for packing and moving. The PID controller runs a 2000 watt element. Propane is just used to get initial temperature up to distilling range then the PID takes over. Wort Chiller and a cooler for obvious purpose.

The 20 gallon cook pot and propane burner are used to gelatinize corn, barley, etc. Volume allows me to get three or four carboy ferments going at one time.

The cleared carboy is corn based and ready to run. The other is a sweet feed that has been racked off and continues to clear.

[acfixer69]

Nice stuff. If the propane is available why switch to a pid cost of propane?

[Dancing4dan]

Thanks for the compliment. PID allows me to close the garage door And not gas myself. I also control my meat smoker with the PID.

[acfixer69]

Does your PID allow a manual power adjustment by percent power or just temperature approach correction? Also the collection tube looks like plastic on closer look which needs to be corrected.

[Dancing4dan]

Temperature control. Collection tube is food grade. I should just extend the copper. Any flexible options?

[oluf]

Awesome! Thank you for sharing.. It's always nice to see a setup. I really like how you've tied the name into it. Keep dancing! =)

[acfixer69]

Temperature control. Collection tube is food grade. I should just extend the copper. Any flexible options?

Temperature control isn't the way to distill. And yep extend the copper.

[Corsaire]

Nice setup! Looks like you're well underway.

But as acfixer said, couple of issues:
Your collection tube may be food safe, but warm ethanol isn't food, it's a solvent.

And you don't control temperature in a still. Temps will rise during the run as alcohol is depleted from the boiler.
You control power. Once your boiler's contents are boiling you control the amount of vapor produced. More power gives more vapor, and more smearing.
Less power gives less vapor and less smearing.

An element that cycles on and off just smears more.

[Dancing4dan]

Ok. I can agree with that. It’s actually a good point. Thank you for correcting me. Controlling the power effects the temperature. Same way Controlling the steering wheel effects direction. Well, same same but different.

The PID controls the amount of power provided to the heating element. Power supply is proportional to what is required to achieve the set temperature.

The last two runs I slowly increased the temperature (By controlling the power) through fore-shots until well into heads. After that I increased the set temperature above what the element is able to immediately produce. The power output remains at 100% as the temperature slowly climbs. Production is a steady stream from that point on

The first two times I ran the still real slow. Increasing the temperature preset one degree at a time. Each time the temperature at the top of the column increased the still would produce a small stream until the the temperature would balance between set and monitored temperatures. Then production would slow to drops and continue to slow further. I continued this way of slowly increasing the set temperature, monitoring production and making many very small cuts as things progressed. I made cuts based on taste and smell. Anytime I detected a change in taste or smell I made another cut. Some cuts were pretty small, a few ounces. I ended with about 24 small cuts. I numbered them in sequential order as they came off.

The cuts that were large enough to proof ranged from 120 proof down to 30 proof. Took hours, as in most of the day. All the small cuts were done specifically to allow me opportunity to taste and smell the difference in the product as distillation progressed. It’s pretty interesting how taste and smell of the run changes as it progresses.

The initial product (for-shots) are pretty harsh smelling and obviously contain high percent of methanol and some acetone. Very flammable. Pretty effective solvent for removing ink from a Sharpie marker used to label the jars.

[Corsaire]

If you raise your set point above what can be achieved you basically run your element full blast, so there's no point in using that controller. When you do a spirit run it's best to have better control.

How big is your boiler?

And yes, fores make good solvent. Pretty good lighter fluid as well

[Dancing4dan]

The boiler is 8 gallon capacity. I fill it to 5 gallons due to the size of my glass carboy fermentors. Hit 6.5 gallons one time.

That it would run wide open and not produce more than a pencil stream was a bit of a surprise for me. I was expecting more of an aggressive boil. Apparently the 2000 watt element is pretty matched to the boiler size???

[Corsaire]

That surprises me as well. Any chance you could measure power that goes to the element?

[Saltbush Bill]

Controlling the power effects the temperature. Same way Controlling the steering wheel effects direction.

Best read this simple to understand link.
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/Re ... gMyth.html

[Dancing4dan]

Thanks Bill. Im still disappointed with the Santa thing.

Corsaire that’s a good idea. It acts like the PID is throttling energy output when it is showing 100%. The control box has enough room to wire an amp meter.

The Inkbird PID is 20 amps, the element is 2000 watts. It’s plugged into a 15 amp outlet. I expected it to pop the breaker running full power but it doesn’t. The temperature just slowly climbs as the amount of alcohol decreases. It just gently cooks along producing a small stream at the output. It’s cold here so I insulate the still pretty well with wool. Except for the bottom.

Not being able to see into the pot, would boiling only occur on the surface of the element? It’s pretty small compared to the pot.

I don’t think the element is 2000 watts as advertised.

[still_stirrin]

The Inkbird PID is 20 amps, the element is 2000 watts. It’s plugged into a 15 amp outlet. I expected it to pop the breaker running full power but it doesn’t.

Probably not, because most circuit breakers will tolerate short periods of (slightly) higher current draw before snapping. But as they “warm up”, you’ll experience them tripping quicker and quicker upon overload.

Not being able to see into the pot, would boiling only occur on the surface of the element? It’s pretty small compared to the pot.

Put a pan of water on your kitchen stove and turn the heat on hi. Then, watch where the bubbles (of steam) form. You’ll see them originate at the bottom of the pan, which is directly touching the element.

Likewise, the heat from the element is transferred to the liquid at the surface of the element. More surface area (lower watt density) will provide greater transfer capability. So, ULWD elements work better.

I don’t think the element is 2000 watts as advertised.

Try measuring the resistance of the element with an ohmmeter. And then measure the voltage of your power source. Then, calculate the “power rating” of the element from this: P = (VxV)/R

Chances are, it is close to the advertised rating, but not exact. Most elements vary slightly in resistance, which ultimately affects their power consumption/dissipation.
ss

[Dancing4dan]

Not being able to see into the pot, would boiling only occur on the surface of the element? It’s pretty small compared to the pot.

Put a pan of water on your kitchen stove and turn the heat on hi. Then, watch where the bubbles (of steam) form. You’ll see them originate at the bottom of the pan, which is directly touching the element.

Likewise, the heat from the element is transferred to the liquid at the surface of the element. More surface area (lower watt density) will provide greater transfer capability. So, ULWD elements work better.

I don’t think the element is 2000 watts as advertised.

Try measuring the resistance of the element with an ohmmeter. And then measure the voltage of your power source. Then, calculate the “power rating” of the element from this: P = (VxV)/R

Chances are, it is close to the advertised rating, but not exact. Most elements vary slightly in resistance, which ultimately affects their power consumption/dissipation.
ss
[/quote]

Hey SS I didn't thank you for your input. I appreciate it.

Taking into consideration what you said about the surface area of the element I am going to do a bit of an experiment on my next run.

I made a slight modification to the still. There was some 1/4 inch copper line laying around. I formed it into a loop around the bottom of my boiler and brought an end up and out beside the column then up to the top of the column. I have a small medical air "compressor", for lack of a better word. Its really like a big fish tank pump. The loop on the bottom of the boiler has very small holes drilled in the upper surface. The compressor attaches to the top end and pumps air into the boiler simulating the bubbles forming on the surface or a much larger element or the bottom of a propane heated pot.

In test situations the addition of the air into a large pot of boiling water produced a lot more steam at a given temperature than with out air. for example, at 80 degrees celcius the water is steaming but not aggressively. Turn on the air pump and there is a lot more steam. I want to know that if that would result in more distillate at 70 to 80 degrees celcius. and if that would impact fore's and heads separation from hearts.

Its like a simulated boil. It allows a lot of energy release from the wash at lower temperatures. My still starts producing when the top of the column reaches about 47 degrees celcius. If I increase the power slowly and move that temperature up slowly I get good separation of fore's and heads.

I want to know if the "simulated boil" will allow for more energy release and more distillate release from the boiler at lower temperatures and decrease smearing.

next couple of days should tell.

[NZChris]

A short time after boiling begins all of the oxygen has been forced out of the still. For an explosion, you need fuel, oxygen and an ignition source. A still normally only has one of the three, but by adding air into the boiler you now have fuel and oxygen in the boiler and coming out of the spout and all it needs is an external ignition source for you to be on the 6 o'clock news.

[Dancing4dan]

all it needs is an external ignition source for you to be on the 6 o'clock news.

thanks. I hate it when that happens!

[Berserk]

In test situations the addition of the air into a large pot of boiling water produced a lot more steam at a given temperature than with out air. for example, at 80 degrees celcius the water is steaming but not aggressively. Turn on the air pump and there is a lot more steam.

Steam is actually invisible. The cloud we see when we boil water is actually really small drops of water being flung into the air by the boiling water. If you superheat steam it's invisible because all the water drops have changed phase.

So what I think happens is that by introducing pressurised air into the boil you fling more liquid water/wash into the air, which looks like more steam is produced but in reality it's probably the same. Or maybe even less if the air cools the liquid in the boiler.

Here's a video which shows the invisibility of superheated steam: Superheated steam

[still_stirrin]

all it needs is an external ignition source for you to be on the 6 o'clock news.

thanks. I hate it when that happens!

Just like the air/fuel mixture in the intake of your car’s engine —> BOOM!

[Dancing4dan]

all it needs is an external ignition source for you to be on the 6 o'clock news.

thanks. I hate it when that happens!

Just like the air/fuel mixture in the intake of your car’s engine —> BOOM!

Yeah. I know a bit about air/fuel mixture but didn’t think about that in this instance. Glad I posted before proceeding.

Thanks guys.

[Dancing4dan]

So The still changed from a stock pot to a keg. Bought some tri clamps to do away with flour and water. Last few stripping runs have gone well on propane. NO THERMOMETER it still works! No PID either. Just watching the stream.

Thank you to everyone. Lots of good advice here and those who take the time to mentor and teach are much appreciated. The role of mentor can be very rewarding but a lot of work and at times frustrating. For those who step up to give their knowledge and experience, thank you.

Future plan includes a electric steam boiler set up, PWM to run 2 elements. Plan to mash, ferment and distill on grain. I know yeast and all that superior product. I just want to try it out. If I taste yeast it’s back to straining and squeezing. I hates it! Will certainly be nice to mash with steam.

I’m not in this to save money or make money. So far the equipment makes for some pricey ETOH. However, this is some damn good education and a lot of fun.

Retirement is getting pretty close and this adds to my ability to keep busy after that occurs.