SPP Packing

[sergiolis]

It's your choice

[DAD300]

I etched one batch, a gallon with Ferric acid. It is kind of dangerous stuff. It completely eats copper, gets extremely hot on any metal and is hard to get rid of.

I did it in a milk jug, because it won't eat plastic. The jug got to hot to touch and it took tons of sodium carbonate to neutralize. Then the SPP held too much liquid during a distillation. Made the SPP very slow.

I later mixed it with non etched just to not throw it away. I would not recommend it as a standard process.

SPP is very effective without the etching. Don't bother...

I etched a batch with heat also...that was worse! It brought al the carbon to the surface and rusted.

[sergiolis]

Hi Dad,
(About etching I'd rather prefer not to)

Are you using gas or electrical heating?

[NineInchNails]

I etched one batch, a gallon with Ferric acid. It is kind of dangerous stuff. It completely eats copper, gets extremely hot on any metal and is hard to get rid of.

I did it in a milk jug, because it won't eat plastic. The jug got to hot to touch and it took tons of sodium carbonate to neutralize. Then the SPP held too much liquid during a distillation. Made the SPP very slow.

I later mixed it with non etched just to not throw it away. I would not recommend it as a standard process.

SPP is very effective without the etching. Don't bother...

I etched a batch with heat also...that was worse! It brought al the carbon to the surface and rusted.

Good info, thank you very much. I remember a time, years ago, when people were recommending etching for optimal performance. That got stuck in my mind and I assumed it was ideal or beneficial.

[Cagey Ey]

Mods, feel free to move this post if it's in the wrong place.

Hello, all. Not trying to thread jack but I'm guessing there's a lot of SPP masters on this thread and it's sort of related. This thread has moved on to wider diameter columns however I am sure there are those with narrower columns following.

I'm pretty sure 4.0 x 4.0 x 0.24 mm is an ok size for a 2" 30" column, and this is the size carried by a Russian company; SELIVANENKO SPP. Having searched, I've found just one instance of this company's name on HD with no corresponding comments.

I'm hoping someone here has tried this vendor and can comment as to the integrity and/or efficacy of their product.

In short, is this vendor trustworthy and how good is their product?

https://www.selivanenko.com/Spiral-pris ... -p76854528

Thanks in advance.

~Cagey

[Yummyrum]

Well I clicked on that link and it gave me a security warning. .... so .... thats what I think .

[Cagey Ey]

Well I clicked on that link and it gave me a security warning. .... so .... thats what I think .
40D882F1-370E-4D34-BA60-8F54642BC834.jpeg

Yikes!

I'm not getting that warning, though. And I was on a company network which is firewall'd heavily when I visited that site... Weird. Either way, if no ones done business with 'em, I'll stay away.

~Cagey

[charcoal]

SELIVANENKO redirects to https://store10648178.ecwid.com . They support paypal so you may not need to provide your credit card.

HTH

[NineInchNails]

It appears they selling stainless SPP 5x5x.4mm for $45 per liter.

On their web page they claim to etch the SPP. Well that doesn't sound good from what DAD300 has stated previously.

[Odin]

It seems they cater to "demand". If "etching" is better, yes, they have it. But DAD is right. No etching needed in SPP. SPP is high performance column packing. The surface area / evaporation theory needs to be replaced by the "bullet in a fish tank" analogy. Draining downwards is essential in high performance column packings. Etching prevents that ... even though it does increase surface area ... which is only applicable in low performance column packing environments, like 800 W per 2 inch column diameter instead of 2,800 W ...

Odin.

[acfixer69]

Now that's a nugget to to give a thought too. How much is too much.

[shadylane]

Just a thought on etching
When you get out of the shower, look to see what surface has the most moister condensed on it.
It's always the smooth surface

[The Baker]

Just a thought on etching
When you get out of the shower, look to see what surface has the most moister condensed on it.
It's always the smooth surface

On me or on the shower?

Geoff

[Fart Vader]

LOL
That, was funny.

[shadylane]

Just a thought on etching
When you get out of the shower, look to see what surface has the most moister condensed on it.
It's always the smooth surface

On me or on the shower?

Geoff

I better blame that one on the moonshine
I was thinking of the mirror, tiles and other smooth surfaces

[Yummyrum]

I’m guessing surface tension for alcohol will be a lot less than water.
Does packing behave more efficiently at the start or end of the run ?

[Saltbush Bill]

On me or on the shower?

Old farts dont have smooth surfaces.

[The Baker]

On me or on the shower?

Old farts don't have smooth surfaces.

Good one, Salty.

Geoff

[NineInchNails]

I've been giving serious thought to making my own SPP, but I always keep my eye out for some place that makes larger SPP for my 3" column. So far this place makes the biggest I've seen, but not only is it etched, it's more expensive than most. It's unfortunate.

[CopperFiend]

Dear all,

Sorry to tack this on and the end of this topic but I'm have a small issue with my SPP. I built a jig to make a small amount for my 2" column. It winds beautifully and makes nice shapes but then when it gets to the end of the Mandel it springs open loosely like this.

Is there something I'm doing wrong? I've used 0.3mm wire and also 0.8mm and both do this. Tried different tensions with the same effect.

Thank you for any help you can give,
C

[Fart Vader]

How big is your bit/mandrel ?
What kind of wire is that?

[CopperFiend]

The mandrel is 5mm and the wire is 304 SS 0.31mm annealed wire. I've had some more success today actually. I think the feed angle was too steep, causing it to wind as a spring instead of almost perpendicular to the mandrel. Any tips greatly appreciated. Took 3 hours to make 700ml!

[Fart Vader]

Glad to hear you're making progress. Feed angle and tension are important also. Good luck.

[ginfitz]

I just bought 2 liters of 5x5 SPP stainless packing from Doctor Gradus on ebay. How do you recommend cleaning this before the sacrificial run? Thanks

[Fart Vader]

Soak it in vinegar for a day. Then run it with your sacrificial.

[bitter]

7 Years later still not got SPP for my 3" Boka.

Wth copper blocker I can get a clean 3 to 3.5 LPH with a 40% charge and 5.33 LPH both at 95%

I see odins post of OSPP and bunch of different sized Dad300 rferfs to size C .. So what size.. Based on reading 1/10 to 1/12 the column size means about 6.5 to 7.8mm My goal is the go a bit faster than 3 LPH say 4 LPH and be rock solid whole run till done.. I can easily put about 52" - scrubbies to hold it.. but seen DAD300 only needs 30" Trying to figure out if better to buy or try making it.. Also was reading on marbles and lava rock too.. but liek the idea of SPP in stainless for easy cleaning.

B

[BrewinBrian44]

7 Years later still not got SPP for my 3" Boka.

Wth copper blocker I can get a clean 3 to 3.5 LPH with a 40% charge and 5.33 LPH both at 95%

I see odins post of OSPP and bunch of different sized Dad300 rferfs to size C .. So what size.. Based on reading 1/10 to 1/12 the column size means about 6.5 to 7.8mm My goal is the go a bit faster than 3 LPH say 4 LPH and be rock solid whole run till done.. I can easily put about 52" - scrubbies to hold it.. but seen DAD300 only needs 30" Trying to figure out if better to buy or try making it.. Also was reading on marbles and lava rock too.. but liek the idea of SPP in stainless for easy cleaning.

B

I recently purchased 5L of 5x5 SPP for my 3” column on eBay, which resulted in about 43” packed height. It doesn’t meet the suggested guidelines for size in a 3”, but still worked fine. Before ever using the stuff, I did A TON of reading on this forum to have a solid crack at getting good results right out the gate. I’ve probably read this thread about 8 times among others.

The stuff works, that’s for sure. I did a test run since I needed to use the alcohol to finish some cleaning of new still parts. I only had some nasty feints on hand for the run. I successfully achieved the magic aquatic environment at the top of the packing which required almost 5,000 watts for my setup. I played with the take off rate with my VM valve and was able to draw off near azeo at 3qt per hour, probably could have ran even faster with a higher ABV charge and reached full azeo. Pretty sure my watered down feints were around 20%ABV and only 5gal diluted. At 2qt per hour it was full azeo.

Since the still was basically completely clean before the run, I did sneak a tiny, diluted down taste about half way through and promptly spit it out and rinsed. Considering the nasty crap I loaded in the boiler I couldn’t believe how clean and odorless it was. Tasted and smelled like premium vodka. I was blown away.

The eBay stuff was from Dr Gradus. I can attest to its quality. One thing though… the stuff comes covered in manufacturing oil. I did several cleaning regimens, but the best one by far was putting it in the dishwasher which I should have done prior to the vinegar, water and sacrificial alcohol runs. The detergent did a fantastic job cleaning off the oil. I just used a vinyl brew bag to keep it all contained and rinsed by hand several times after to get all the remaining detergent out.

After the run I rinsed it with hot water. To keep it dry for storage, I spread it out on a large beach towel and aimed a box fan at it. Bone dry the next morning. I’ve also read you can use the oven too.

Hope this gives some confidence for the sizes available online.

I’m very excited to make some tasty vodka with it!

[bitter]

Thanks Brian.. Thats what I expected.. I figure need at least 4000 if not 5000 Watts input... be really kewl if could run full 5500 and be really clean.. like anything I'm sure there is a sweet spot that over time you will fine.

As I said I can do 3.5LPH with my current setup and copper blocker but tis packed pretty tight and need to slow output down over time.

I also found download/file.php?id=61046&mode=view that is a big help.. so looks like 5x5 the biggest I want as only have 5500W

B

[sergiolis]

Hi Guys!!!
I was reading again about SPP and found this statement:
1st version: "With an increase in the weight of one liter of SPP, the cost of the separation ability increases, and the result is the same for all the big money. In addition, the throughput decreases, which means that sooner there will be a choke and as a whole it will be necessary to work with lower productivity."
2nd version: " With the increase in the weight of one liter of the nozzle, the cost of the separating ability increases, the same result is obtained for more and more money. In addition, the throughput decreases, which means that there will be a flood earlier and, in general, you will have to work at a lower productivity."

Just wondering if I put more SPP per square inch, I mean more density, it will flood before at a given wattage? I would like to know how are related density, wattage and flooding.
I'm a bit confused, my physics knowledge is catastrophic. Thanks in advance

[Salt Must Flow]

7 Years later still not got SPP for my 3" Boka.

Wth copper blocker I can get a clean 3 to 3.5 LPH with a 40% charge and 5.33 LPH both at 95%

I see odins post of OSPP and bunch of different sized Dad300 rferfs to size C .. So what size.. Based on reading 1/10 to 1/12 the column size means about 6.5 to 7.8mm My goal is the go a bit faster than 3 LPH say 4 LPH and be rock solid whole run till done.. I can easily put about 52" - scrubbies to hold it.. but seen DAD300 only needs 30" Trying to figure out if better to buy or try making it.. Also was reading on marbles and lava rock too.. but liek the idea of SPP in stainless for easy cleaning.

B

I recently purchased 5L of 5x5 SPP for my 3” column on eBay, which resulted in about 43” packed height. It doesn’t meet the suggested guidelines for size in a 3”, but still worked fine. Before ever using the stuff, I did A TON of reading on this forum to have a solid crack at getting good results right out the gate. I’ve probably read this thread about 8 times among others.

The stuff works, that’s for sure. I did a test run since I needed to use the alcohol to finish some cleaning of new still parts. I only had some nasty feints on hand for the run. I successfully achieved the magic aquatic environment at the top of the packing which required almost 5,000 watts for my setup. I played with the take off rate with my VM valve and was able to draw off near azeo at 3qt per hour, probably could have ran even faster with a higher ABV charge and reached full azeo. Pretty sure my watered down feints were around 20%ABV and only 5gal diluted. At 2qt per hour it was full azeo.

Since the still was basically completely clean before the run, I did sneak a tiny, diluted down taste about half way through and promptly spit it out and rinsed. Considering the nasty crap I loaded in the boiler I couldn’t believe how clean and odorless it was. Tasted and smelled like premium vodka. I was blown away.

The eBay stuff was from Dr Gradus. I can attest to its quality. One thing though… the stuff comes covered in manufacturing oil. I did several cleaning regimens, but the best one by far was putting it in the dishwasher which I should have done prior to the vinegar, water and sacrificial alcohol runs. The detergent did a fantastic job cleaning off the oil. I just used a vinyl brew bag to keep it all contained and rinsed by hand several times after to get all the remaining detergent out.

After the run I rinsed it with hot water. To keep it dry for storage, I spread it out on a large beach towel and aimed a box fan at it. Bone dry the next morning. I’ve also read you can use the oven too.

Hope this gives some confidence for the sizes available online.

I’m very excited to make some tasty vodka with it!

The other day I emailed that Russian company asking about using their 5x5 SPP with my 3" VM still and and this was their reply.

3.5x3.5 has much more surface area, so it’s easier to get high ABV alcohol, by using SPPs. As an example, you can have look at our column Cosmo 3 inch which has 3 feet of height filled with SPP 3.5mm with power of 3000w it’s able to produce 5 quarts an hour of 96.0-96.6 ABV.

If you’re going to use 5x5 SPP and wish to have a closer result, you could heat with more power than 3kwt, because 5x5 SPP has much more space to come through and by having a height of 3 feet or 4 feet it’s going to produce 95-96 ABV with the speed of 5-6 quarts.

Now if you go to their website you'll notice that it claims their 3" still with 3.5x3.5 SPP can produce 2.5 lph (0.66 gph). Well their email claims it produces 4.7 lph (1.25 gph) that's a HUGE disparity. I don't know what to believe, but they made it clear, at least in the email they sent me, they recommend the 3.5x3.5 SPP over the 5.5x5.5. I just figured I'd post this information in case it helps anyone.

Based on traditional SPP dimensions, the 5.5x5.5 wire appears significantly undersized if I'm not mistaken. It is my understanding the wire 5x5x5 SPP traditionally use wire between 0.6-0.7 mm and theirs use 0.2 mm wire.