Shady's Sugar Shine

[still_stirrin]

1) When could I possibly done in the fermentation to get a bitter and minty product ?

Mysterious.....Never heard of getting “bitter & minty” from the start of a spirit run. And mint flavor and aroma might be desireable in a gin, but you’d have to macerate mint leaves to get that in the product and even then it would be tricky to get over to the product. So, I’m suspicious that it (the mint character) was residual oils left in the stillhead from a previous distillation and your new spirit run just washed it out of “the pipes”. Otherwise, I have no idea how you’d get it in the SSS spirit run. Sorry, not much help here.

2) the reason that the ABV was not high was it my new cooling lines that I use from tab water, with tab water the water always come cold and maybe could it be that it was too cold and not tepid that I faced this problem, or should I use different packing material to reach this goal ?

If your product condenser is cooling the product at the spout below the 20*C calibration temperature for your hydrometer, then the reading would be off, that is, it would show the %ABV as slightly less than the spirit actually is because the cold density is higher than the corrected density. Thus, the hydrometer measures incorrectly.

So, your cold water line could be the cause of this. Simply measure the temperature of your product and temperature correct the reading of the Proof & Traille accordingly. And remember, with high proof alcohol the temperature of the spirit will dramatically affect density readings.
ss

[artooks]

1) When could I possibly done in the fermentation to get a bitter and minty product ?

Mysterious.....Never heard of getting “bitter & minty” from the start of a spirit run. And mint flavor and aroma might be desireable in a gin, but you’d have to macerate mint leaves to get that in the product and even then it would be tricky to get over to the product. So, I’m suspicious that it (the mint character) was residual oils left in the stillhead from a previous distillation and your new spirit run just washed it out of “the pipes”. Otherwise, I have no idea how you’d get it in the SSS spirit run. Sorry, not much help here.

2) the reason that the ABV was not high was it my new cooling lines that I use from tab water, with tab water the water always come cold and maybe could it be that it was too cold and not tepid that I faced this problem, or should I use different packing material to reach this goal ?

If your product condenser is cooling the product at the spout below the 20*C calibration temperature for your hydrometer, then the reading would be off, that is, it would show the %ABV as slightly less than the spirit actually is because the cold density is higher than the corrected density. Thus, the hydrometer measures incorrectly.

So, your cold water line could be the cause of this. Simply measure the temperature of your product and temperature correct the reading of the Proof & Traille accordingly. And remember, with high proof alcohol the temperature of the spirit will dramatically affect density readings.
ss

Thanks SS,

Actually my still was sitting for the last 2 years without any distillation done and I have cleaned it through I also did a sacrificial run with water - vinegar and alcohol so I do not think that I did something wrong I actually had this type of problem with BW at the time, so I suspect if my Bakers Yeast is to blame, I also ferment around 86.0 °F I am just trying to find a cause here could it be that I do not sprinkle the yeast over my wash instead I make somewhat of a starter as I explained it in the thread, in this wash I also used B vitamins as well as dead yeast so maybe the B vitamin supplement was too much also I used epsom salt and I purchased it 2.5 years ago maybe that could caused the problem, just thinking out loud here. so that maybe you could point out something.

[artooks]

Hi I was not satisfied thinking that I did something wrong so I redistilled the spirit 3rd time today this time in my third run I changed my packing so for packing I used from bottom to top 4 copper mash + 18 oz copper saddles + 2 copper mash + 18 OZ SS Saddles, and that was it, the cold water goes out at 64F and comes back from the reflux at 75.2 F, anyway I started the still at 2800 Watt and within 17 minutes I started to see condensation in the sight glass so I was at full reflux for 40 minutes at 625 watt then I started to increase the RC for 1 inch started to collect foreshots, I should say this level is %75 reflux and I kept this RC level of %75 and power setting constant and reached 95 ABV this time because it was run much slower the cuts were much better and that minty smell went away, normally I do 1 stripping run and 1 spirit run do any of you do 2 spirit run to reach full neutral, but now I taste it and also taste it with 1 part alcohol 1 part water it really is pure ethanol with a hint o sweetness, I like it very much. Thanks Shady sorry that I had a problem at the beginning but now finally I reached to the level I want, but with this settings I get 550 ml / 1 hr it is a bit slow but is that ok to run it at 75 percent relux constantly since I know that is not the way many people operates this still, but it seems that to get Azeo this looks like the only way.

[still_stirrin]

... so, I suspect if my Bakers Yeast is to blame, I also ferment around 86.0 °F... could it be that I do not sprinkle the yeast over my wash instead I make somewhat of a starter...

Making a starter is “good process” as you will pitch a healthy quantity of active yeast and they’ll start fermenting quickly. During the rapid start of fermentation, a lot of esters will be produced as precursors to alcohol. Those esters often smell “fruity”. But, during the 2nd phase of fermentation, the esters are reduced, so the smells should “clean up”. However, I wouldn’t think the aggressive fermentation would create “minty” products. I have never experienced that and I’ve had all types of ferments with countless strains of yeast.

... I also used B vitamins as well as dead yeast, so maybe the B vitamin supplement was too much, also I used epsom salt and I purchased it 2.5 years ago maybe that could caused the problem...

I do not believe either of these nutrients are the cause of your “mint flavor”.

Magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) provides magnesium for the yeast which is very beneficial to yeast health and reproduction. The sulfur is, however, a byproduct of the salt reduction. It could contribute to a “sulfur smell” if excessive amounts were used. But I doubt you’ve used enough to become a problem.

And the B vitamin provides many trace minerals, also useful in yeast health. Again, I’ve never had these contribute a “minty” quality. They can create some “bitterness” in the ferment. But again, that would be due to excessive use of the vitamins, which I’m sure you have not done.

I think the minty quality is from something else. And it does sound like it is “ingredients related”. You didn’t use any organic materials in the ferment did you, ie - grasses, or kale, or the like?
ss

[artooks]

... so, I suspect if my Bakers Yeast is to blame, I also ferment around 86.0 °F... could it be that I do not sprinkle the yeast over my wash instead I make somewhat of a starter...

Making a starter is “good process” as you will pitch a healthy quantity of active yeast and they’ll start fermenting quickly. During the rapid start of fermentation, a lot of esters will be produced as precursors to alcohol. Those esters often smell “fruity”. But, during the 2nd phase of fermentation, the esters are reduced, so the smells should “clean up”. However, I wouldn’t think the aggressive fermentation would create “minty” products. I have never experienced that and I’ve had all types of ferments with countless strains of yeast.

... I also used B vitamins as well as dead yeast, so maybe the B vitamin supplement was too much, also I used epsom salt and I purchased it 2.5 years ago maybe that could caused the problem...

I do not believe either of these nutrients are the cause of your “mint flavor”.

Magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) provides magnesium for the yeast which is very beneficial to yeast health and reproduction. The sulfur is, however, a byproduct of the salt reduction. It could contribute to a “sulfur smell” if excessive amounts were used. But I doubt you’ve used enough to become a problem.

And the B vitamin provides many trace minerals, also useful in yeast health. Again, I’ve never had these contribute a “minty” quality. They can create some “bitterness” in the ferment. But again, that would be due to excessive use of the vitamins, which I’m sure you have not done.

I think the minty quality is from something else. And it does sound like it is “ingredients related”. You didn’t use any organic materials in the ferment did you, ie - grasses, or kale, or the like?
ss

No I did not I stick to the recipe, I used whole shells instead of crushed ones, did you see my last post in 3rd distillation I succeeded I think what happened was I may have started the run a bit on the fast side which could potentially smeared heads into hearts that was probably the reason because in my third run nothing was coming over, but I did find out that I can get Azeo at 75% reflux I cannot get any other way can you please read my last post on this.

[sampvt]

Are all of these measurements, ie gallons and cups, USA because English gallons and cups differ which is why I went wrong with wineoes sugar wash

[zed255]

Pretty sure since the site is US based you can almost be assured that Freedom Units are being used most of the time. I try to specify as much as possible in metric measures which alleviates confusion. When I do use old school measures I use US rather than Imperial even though as a Canadian we used to use Imperial measures.

[StuNY]

Hey guys, after doing lots of Wineos and Jimbos Gumball batches to make Vodka from on my reflux I am set to give this one a try! I like the Gumball over spent bourbon grains for my sipping vodka, but now I really just want a clean neutral without too much fuss. What is the consensus on the multi vitamin in this recipe- is it necessary? I like to keep it simple so would rather avoid. Planning to do the recipe otherwise as laid out in Shady's first post.

Thanks!
Stuart

[artooks]

Hey guys, after doing lots of Wineos and Jimbos Gumball batches to make Vodka from on my reflux I am set to give this one a try! I like the Gumball over spent bourbon grains for my sipping vodka, but now I really just want a clean neutral without too much fuss. What is the consensus on the multi vitamin in this recipe- is it necessary? I like to keep it simple so would rather avoid. Planning to do the recipe otherwise as laid out in Shady's first post.

Thanks!
Stuart

Hi,

Shady stated that he then did an experiment without vitamins and epsom salt, and find out that it did not slow down the ferment time, but he also said that DAP is needed, the most important 2 ingredients in this recipe is half boiled yeasts which makes a great nutrient for the yeasties and DAP so basically to answer your question you can deduct epsom salt and multivitamin from the recipe and try like that since Shady confirmed that the recipe worked ok.

[Saltbush Bill]

The recipe works very well using all ingredients....Id use everything.
Yeast love magnesium ....which is what Epsom salts is, they need it to have healthy cells.

[StuNY]

Thanks guys, got my first batch fermenting now... This was super easy to make!

[shadylane]

What is the consensus on the multi vitamin in this recipe- is it necessary? I like to keep it simple so would rather avoid. Planning to do the recipe otherwise as laid out in Shady's first post.

Thanks!
Stuart

Hi,

Shady stated that he then did an experiment without vitamins and epsom salt, and find out that it did not slow down the ferment time, but he also said that DAP is needed, the most important 2 ingredients in this recipe is half boiled yeasts which makes a great nutrient for the yeasties and DAP so basically to answer your question you can deduct epsom salt and multivitamin from the recipe and try like that since Shady confirmed that the recipe worked ok.
[/quote]

Here's an update
The multivitamin's probably aren't needed
Everything else is.
I was wrong about omitting epsom salt
In this recipe, lack of it didn't effect the speed of fermentation
but it does effect the taiste

[artooks]

What is the consensus on the multi vitamin in this recipe- is it necessary? I like to keep it simple so would rather avoid. Planning to do the recipe otherwise as laid out in Shady's first post.

Thanks!
Stuart

Hi,

Shady stated that he then did an experiment without vitamins and epsom salt, and find out that it did not slow down the ferment time, but he also said that DAP is needed, the most important 2 ingredients in this recipe is half boiled yeasts which makes a great nutrient for the yeasties and DAP so basically to answer your question you can deduct epsom salt and multivitamin from the recipe and try like that since Shady confirmed that the recipe worked ok.

Here's an update
The multivitamin's probably aren't needed
Everything else is.
I was wrong about omitting epsom salt
In this recipe, lack of it didn't effect the speed of fermentation
but it does effect the taiste
[/quote]

Since you are using a high amount of boiled yeast that converts to the Vitamin B so probably that is the reason that you do not think the MV is necessary any longer.

[artooks]

Dear Shady

In your recipe you are targeting OG: 1.070 which looks like the sweet spot I tried this in All Bran with different OG like 1.080 - 1.085 - 1.090 and 1.095 the minimum gain does not worth the wait, because then the yeast is having a hard time to convert the sugars and the duration extends to 2.5 - 3 weeks, for example with 1.070 I tried your recipe and it finished in 6 day which is a very short time, I do not understand how people manage to finish the fermentations in 3-4 days, I cannot. But do you also agree that 1.070 is an optimum OG since the yeast at these levels do not create off flavors.

[shadylane]

Yes, 1.070 seems to be the right amount of sugar for bakers yeast.
A temp controlled fermenter also helps. 31 - 32'c seems to be about right for the yeast.

[StuNY]

Yes, 1.070 seems to be the right amount of sugar for bakers yeast.
A temp controlled fermenter also helps. 31 - 32'c seems to be about right for the yeast.

Awesome update- thanks Shady! I left out the multivitamins for the 40 gal batch I have going now but included everything else. SG was 1.069 which is a little higher than I am used to with grains but good to know it is in ideal range. Maintaining 90f now (even though heaters set for 86). I used whole oyster shells since I keep them after summer grilling with friends. 24 hours in the PH had dropped all the way down to 3.0- the whole shells tend to take a little while to work through from past experience so I just added some calcium carb to get back to 4.2, 48 hours in all good- holding 4.2 and bubbling pretty aggressively. Looking forward to my first taste!

[artooks]

Yes, 1.070 seems to be the right amount of sugar for bakers yeast.
A temp controlled fermenter also helps. 31 - 32'c seems to be about right for the yeast.

Awesome update- thanks Shady! I left out the multivitamins for the 40 gal batch I have going now but included everything else. SG was 1.069 which is a little higher than I am used to with grains but good to know it is in ideal range. Maintaining 90f now (even though heaters set for 86). I used whole oyster shells since I keep them after summer grilling with friends. 24 hours in the PH had dropped all the way down to 3.0- the whole shells tend to take a little while to work through from past experience so I just added some calcium carb to get back to 4.2, 48 hours in all good- holding 4.2 and bubbling pretty aggressively. Looking forward to my first taste!

Hi,

I did use whole shells and I did not had any problem with PH, and also I use them for other Sugar washes as well, as of know I did a trial and writing a thread about it.

[StuNY]

Yeah, whole shells are doing great now and ferment about done. Seems they take 24hrs to kick in based on my prior experience and this batch. I could have probably waited out the PH when it got down to 3.0 but wanted to make sure I kept the yeast happy!

[artooks]

Yeah, whole shells are doing great now and ferment about done. Seems they take 24hrs to kick in based on my prior experience and this batch. I could have probably waited out the PH when it got down to 3.0 but wanted to make sure I kept the yeast happy!

Hi,

I add shells upfront and they finish somewhere from 4.5 PH - 5 PH which is acceptable.

[StuNY]

Hi,

I add shells upfront and they finish somewhere from 4.5 PH - 5 PH which is acceptable.

Interesting... so you are checking Ph over the first 24hrs and don't see a drop at first? Are you using fresh shells? Curious why mine always take a day to kick in...

[artooks]

Hi,

I add shells upfront and they finish somewhere from 4.5 PH - 5 PH which is acceptable.

Interesting... so you are checking Ph over the first 24hrs and don't see a drop at first? Are you using fresh shells? Curious why mine always take a day to kick in...

To be honest,I don't check at the beginning which I should Next time I will do it, but my tap water is around PH 6.5 I and once it is finished it is around 4.5-5 but I will do this recipe again last time I had some problems there was a minty taste I added Vitamin B I think it has a kind of flavor which passes to the distillate, but next time I will not be adding Vitamin reason being boiled yeast is already giving yeast what it needs, so we will see, I have just finished distilling and cleaning, I forget how much time our hobby consumes, but I feel like I have just got out of gym

[Saltbush Bill]

Ive used B vitamins in may different washes.....never had any flavour transfer.

[still_stirrin]

... I forget how much time our hobby consumes, but I feel like I have just got out of gym....

Amen.

But, “time flies...when you’re having fun”.

I just completed cuts on a Special K run...about 2-1/2 gallons of hearts...and “put on wood”. It took me about 3 hours in all, but....I know that when I pull it “off wood” next Christmas, it’ll be delicious. “Top shelf”, without doubt!

Time “invested” is well spent.
ss

[still_stirrin]

Ive used B vitamins in may different washes.....never had any flavour transfer.

I agree SBB. My vitamin B pills are dyed yellow, and they make my pee yellow when I eat them, but they NEVER transfer flavor to the product. Maybe I’m just lucky...but it works!
ss

[artooks]

Ive used B vitamins in may different washes.....never had any flavour transfer.

Of course Saltbush Bill but in my case I am trying to find a reason for the minty taste, because even in the stripping run it had a very neutral since Shady confirmed that MV is not needed, It got me thinking but in this recipe the boiled yeast is the same as Vitamin B, so adding more would not be necessary probably that is why the MV is taken out from the recipe I guess.

[artooks]

... I forget how much time our hobby consumes, but I feel like I have just got out of gym....

Amen.

But, “time flies...when you’re having fun”.

I just completed cuts on a Special K run...about 2-1/2 gallons of hearts...and “put on wood”. It took me about 3 hours in all, but....I know that when I pull it “off wood” next Christmas, it’ll be delicious. “Top shelf”, without doubt!

Time “invested” is well spent.
ss

Exactly this morning I started early at 07:00 and it is now almost midnight and I have just finished a spirit run, this just never finishes But gives me real satisfaction.

[still_stirrin]

Exactly...this morning I started early at 07:00 and it is now almost midnight (24:00) and I have just finished a spirit run, this just never finishes
But gives me real satisfaction.

[Saltbush Bill]

Lets get back on topic please

[StuNY]

Ok, finished my run through my Boca and I'm impressed! This is a perfect neutral. I have now sampled it on the rocks, in a martini and various mixed drinks. My best vodka to date. I even taste tested it against my previous best Jimbo's Gumball (sugar added to spent bourbon grains) and taste is slightly better now and of course much less effort than squeezing out grains.

I did 3 stripping runs in my Keg pot still, then one Reflux run in Keg Boca. This is my go to Vodka recipe now. Thanks for the education Shady- keeping the yeast happy! I'm pretty sure all the off tastes I picked up in previous recipes were due to the inconsistent ferments and chasing the PH etc.

[BrassicaNigra]

Good job, Shady!

I had been using turbo yeast for several runs to get started and recently got some dady. First couple of runs did not go well at all. Very little yield and what I got was awful tasting.

The most recent batch I followed Shady's recipe for Sugar Shine and what a difference! I was working with a six and a half gallon fermenter so I had 6 gallons of wash. Since I was using dady and not baker's yeast I added a little more sugar because alcohol tolerance is higher. 15lb total for 6 gallons. Used the DAP, vitamins, epsom salts and dead yeast along with about half a cup of crushed oyster shell. Kept temperature between 75-87F. Went like crazy for four days and activity dropped (along with temperature) for the last three. Never saw the pH drop below 7 so will probably use about half of the oyster shell in the future.

Did a stripping run and yielded a gallon and a half of about 115 proof product. Just finished up the spirit run with about a gallon of 160 proof!

Going to try another run just like this except no vitamins or epsom salts.

Thanks for getting me straightened out with sugar wash and dady.