Thoughts on Barrell Size

[IMALOSERSCUMBAG]

Looking for thoughts on barrel size. Currently I have (6) 1-Gallon barrels I use for rum and whiskey. I also have one 3-Gallon and one 5-Gallon.
Do you think it's bad to buy a 5 Gallon and only fill part way or does it really matter? I'm leaning towards the 5 and filling as I go. It would take a month or two before I get it full. Right now I'm filling glass carboy's until I get enough but wonder if it's really necessary.

I've seen the ageing charts and all. Has anyone ever done a comparison of the smaller vs larger barrels? Other than it taking longer and larger quantity, is there a real difference in a larger barell? Note, I say small vs large as a 1 vs 5 gallon. Maybe I need to look at a 10?

[Deplorable]

I was advised on here to build up enough product to fill it prior. Angels will have a hell of a party in a half full 5 gallon barrel.

I recently read a college paper that studied aging in small barrels. The loss from a 5 gallon barrel in the first year was 10 to 15%. Imagine the loss you'll get if its only got 2.5 gallons to start.

FWIW, it took me about 10 weeks mashing, fermenting, distilling and repeating, making 23-25 gallon mashes for my 13 gallon boiler.

[Saltbush Bill]

Very good advice above.......the less in the barrel the harder the angels party.

[still_stirrin]

But....angels "partying in your barrels" are not necessarily "bad". Sure, they'll deplete the liquid level, but similarly, the %ABV can go up (hot humid environments) or it can go down (dry arid and cooler environments). Without doubt, the affects will be amplified if the barrel is less than full, or even half full. But, that is not always bad. "Partying angels" is sometimes a great "party".

Here's my 2 cents....start with your spirit in jars, preferably with some oak to start the "maturation process". Then, as you've accumulated enough to fill a cask (at least 1/2 full) add the spirit to the cask. Then, produce more as soon as possible to complete the fill. When full, the aging can be "formally documented" and you can consider it the "start" of your oaking period. The "glass time" prior to filling the cask is simply "lagniappe", or something extra as the Cajuns would call it.

The advantage to getting the spirit into the cask early is offset by the "shrinkage" in the cask. So, get it in as soon as you can. But, supplement it as soon as you can too, to reduce the % of shrinkage you experience. The cask is a great way to air out the raw spirit and it adds so much flavor back to the whiskey that time spent is irreplaceable. But, you do need to be mindful of the "angels share" and its augmentation in a partially filled cask.

OK...this is just my perspective. I'm confident that other members will have their own inputs as well.

So, I say, "put it into the cask, even if you can only fill it 1/2 full....to start". Then, brew like hell, to fill the rest as soon as possible.
ss

[rolling]

I'm not exactly sure how the physics works for "more angels share on a less than full barrel." Does it refer to the portions of the barrel which are dry having more cracks for vapor to evaporate out of? Is it an advantage for the barrel to be completely "wet." Just trying to ascertain if this conjecture or reality.

[The Baker]

With that many barrels you could think about a solera using say three barrels.

(Look it up).

Geoff

[Deplorable]

I'm not exactly sure how the physics works for "more angels share on a less than full barrel." Does it refer to the portions of the barrel which are dry having more cracks for vapor to evaporate out of? Is it an advantage for the barrel to be completely "wet." Just trying to ascertain if this conjecture or reality.

Think about it like this, the liquid inside the barrel causes the fibers to swell and fit tighter against each other. If the barrel is only half full, not only are you fighting evaporation from the outside surface area of the barrel, but you are also losing spirit to wicking to the dryer staves above the fluid level, that are also not as swelled from being under constant exposure to the contents, and therefore these dry staves are allowing more evaporation.

[Saltbush Bill]

Seems to be more than one idea on how this works.

"more angels share on a less than full barrel." Does it refer to the portions of the barrel which are dry having more cracks for vapor to evaporate out of? Is it an advantage for the barrel to be completely "wet."

All of the inside of a barrel is always wet at all times, not just up to the liquid level.
You only have to remove the bung from a half full barrel and wipe a finger around the inside to see that for your self.
As far as I know the more head space in the barrel the more evaporation occurs within the barrel, which in turn allows more of the lighter alcohols to escape through the wood.
There is a lot going on inside of a tightly sealed barrel......a strong vacuum can exist one day at one temp.....heaps of pressure can build up on other days at different temps......air pressure also plays a part in this imo.
You wont see this happen if your barrel has a loose badly fitted bung.......a tight fitting one and its a completely different ball game.

[Twisted Brick]

As far as I know the more head space in the barrel the more evaporation occurs within the barrel, which in turn allows more of the lighter alcohols to escape through the wood.
There is a lot going on inside of a tightly sealed barrel...

+1

Aging in sealed jars is a perfect example of this. Fill the jar up near the top with spirit and the changes caused by interaction with oxygen are noticeably limited.

Fill the sealed jar 2/3 full and the mere presence of oxygen allows the lighter alcohols to fill that space as the chemical changes occur. Periodically airing the jar relieves whatever alcohols were in that headspace, and replenishes with fresh air to continue the cycle.

Not quite the dynamics of a real barrel, but a perfectly acceptable second.

[Durhommer]

I have a few corn rye barley gallon jugs half full with cork stoppers I occasionally air out the smell has really changed on them since 8 months ago my 2 gallon barrel from gibbs is full (or was) I filled it over 2 months ago now with a single malt. I'm thinking for a 2 gallon barrel if i get a gallon back in a year I'll be happy. My next move after a condenser of course is a 5 gallon barrel to age in I'm ready for bigger storage since I have bigger fermenter

[IMALOSERSCUMBAG]

Great ideas and comments. I have three 5 gallon carboys all about half full all different mashes. I think I'm going to buy a 5 gallon barrel for each mash and fill when I get close to 5 gallons. I'm thinking on getting a few more in a few months as those carboys refill and use the solera concept to keep a constant flow of good drink.

Although, I may take a quart and fill and use some oak. I've never used chips/staves in jars. Experimenting is fun.

[tombombadil]

For Christmas I asked for a 5 gallon barrel instead of a 3 gallon barrel because I've read that bigger barrels are better for longer term aging (lower angels share and less likely to "over oak") and a 5 gallon barrel is the biggest barrel that I'm likely to fill every year.

My plan is to fill a barrel every year and let them age for as long as I can stand it, maybe a few years each?

I wonder if anybody has done a side by side?
Same likker in different sized barrels for a few years... that might be interesting.

One of the local distilleries makes a chocolate bourbon that they bottle after only 2 years and it's great! I'm not sure what size barrels they use though... I'll ask next time I'm over that way.

[Deplorable]

For Christmas I asked for a 5 gallon barrel instead of a 3 gallon barrel because I've read that bigger barrels are better for longer term aging (lower angels share and less likely to "over oak") and a 5 gallon barrel is the biggest barrel that I'm likely to fill every year.

My plan is to fill a barrel every year and let them age for as long as I can stand it, maybe a few years each?

I wonder if anybody has done a side by side?
Same likker in different sized barrels for a few years... that might be interesting.

One of the local distilleries makes a chocolate bourbon that they bottle after only 2 years and it's great! I'm not sure what size barrels they use though... I'll ask next time I'm over that way.

The local 'stillery here has a Barrel Club. Buy in gets you your personal 5 gallon barrel of a few different mash bills they make. You chose what you want, wheated, traditional, high rye, or single Malt. They make it, and I beleive you get to chose the barrle entry proof, you sample it over time and decide when to bottle, They host a bottling party for you and your friends (of which you will have many when they find out you have a barrel to bottle) You bottle it, fill out the custom lables, and take your cases of booze home. The average 5 gallon barrel (all new American oak, Barrel Mill Barrels, #3 char) is bottled after 14 months, some members go longer, some a little shorter. I reckon you'll get about the same results, depending on the several factors that all contribute to how it matures in your 'rick house'. My (2nd fill) barrel resides in my garage, since I filled in last month the temp swings in the garage have only been about 15 degrees on average in a 24 hour period. Come summer it'll see around 20 to 30 degree temp swings daily. I suspect I'll be bottling this single malt in 18 to 24 months. I've only peeked inside once, at 1 month, it satisfied my curiosity. I have no intention of peeking again until May. By then, I figure I'll be working on filling another of thier used barrels. I have one full of Malbec for a risky experiment, one full of single malt, and intend to buy more as I find a suitable bourbon recipe.