Rice Alcohol vs Sake! First experience.

[SGB]

It seems like there are a lot of misconceptions about the chinese side of things here.


China's main distilled spirits is called Baijiu, and can be made from a variety of grains, but most commonly sorghum serves as the base. The starter for it is similar, called Daqu, but has a bigger, more complex bacterial load, and is typically used in quite large amounts. This is where some of the more unique flavours of baijiu come from, which can be a bit of an acquired taste for some. One day I want to have a try at making some, but sourcing the starter might be difficult.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baijiu

I typically make my starter from steamed glutinous rice and yeast balls from the local open market. And leave it to activate. After about 5 days I add the water. I usually let it ferment around two weeks longer. No sugar. Just rice ,yeast balls, and water and time

[rubelstrudel]

It's now been a year since I made my Shochu, and it's been sitting on the shelf maturing in bottles. Now I opened a couple of bottles for the first time in a year and shared it with some japanese friends, and my pretty decent Shochu from last year had matured in to rather damn good Shochu this year. The awamori version made with Thai sticky rice was a clear favourite with my friends, since it had retained more sting actually. The kome-shochu made from normal japanese rice that was the one with the most to gain from maturing had mellowed almost to much.

[Honest_Liberty]

What's your take on this video?
The process seems quite extensive:

[SGB]

What's your take on this video?
The process seems quite extensive:

Sake is an extensive process in that, for the end resulting product to be Sake, and exact process must be followed.

Sake is a kind of rice wine but not at all the same as other rice wines. Sake is a complex Japanese rice wine that must follow the traditional steps in its making otherwise it is not Sake, ...just rice wine... And my kid can make rice wine... It's that easy..
Rice Alcohol... Be it, Baiju, or soju or shoju or Thai rice whiskey or what have you, is distilled Rice wine .
Sake, IMHO, is the Dom Perignon of rice wines.

And ,which Rice Alcohol is best between the above mentioned ? That depends on personal preference. Bourbon or Scotch? Which do You prefer?...

I just pulled my rice wine, gonna let it rest for the night to clear and burn some Baiju for my friends family for Christmas tomorrow . If you want to know how it goes down , I'll post the results, in my simple rice alcohol thread

[Honest_Liberty]

Merry Christmas!!!

Thank you for that response. I would love to hear the results.

I'm going to make rice wine first with the angels. Skype I do a blend of what I have or pick just one strain of rice?
I really like the jasmine and basmati rice

[SGB]

Merry Christmas!!!

Thank you for that response. I would love to hear the results.

I'm going to make rice wine first with the angels. Skype I do a blend of what I have or pick just one strain of rice?
I really like the jasmine and basmati rice

You can check over in my thread for "simple Asian rice alcohol "
I just gave my friend the Baiju they wanted for Christmas
As for what type of rice,
You MUST use " sticky gluttonous rice " for the most sugar content and flavor. You can of course use any rice, but the flavors and end result will be less.

[Honest_Liberty]

Sticky, glutinous rice?

White short grain? Is this something I can buy in bulk at an Asian market?

My angel yeast showed up yesterday!

[rubberduck71]

Sticky, glutinous rice?

White short grain? Is this something I can buy in bulk at an Asian market?

My angel yeast showed up yesterday!

Yes, from everything that I've read, you want short grain rice (if you can find it in bulk at decent price).

Even though it's technically a medium grain sushi rice, I used Kokuho Rose that I found @ Costco with Angel Yeast. I think it was ~$30 for 25 lbs/11 kg. Turned out pretty durn tasty. Haven't distilled it yet because of that!

Duck

[NZChris]

Turned out pretty durn tasty. Haven't distilled it yet because of that!

Both of my Angel rice ferments tasted better as wash than as new make. Some of the cut jars tasted like rice, but I wasn't able to get the rice into the final cut. I haven't given up, yet

[v-child]

I buy the Thai brand short grain rice in 50 lb bags for about a dollar a pound. I don't play with magic yeast balls either. I make Korean Soju and the results are spectacular with HTL and standard fermenting techniques. The rice wine has a very good taste when dry also.

[SGB]

Sticky, glutinous rice?

White short grain? Is this something I can buy in bulk at an Asian market?

My angel yeast showed up yesterday!

Short answer, yes. They also will have red and black rice that you can also use. While you are there, ask them if they have "Red rice yeast" . It's a red yeast used in making red rice wines for both drinking and cooking. An Asian market will have everything you need . Just ask for glutinous rice and tell them it's for making wine Ect, they'll know

[SGB]

Turned out pretty durn tasty. Haven't distilled it yet because of that!

Both of my Angel rice ferments tasted better as wash than as new make. Some of the cut jars tasted like rice, but I wasn't able to get the rice into the final cut. I haven't given up, yet

All I know is, is that if I don't make it they way it's supposed to be, all my Asian friends will know and tell me it's not as good. I've made it a few different ways and it can go from a smooth rice tasting spirit to a tasteless rice vodka. And they'll know and I'll know it too. So every time I
Use glutinous rice
Soak the rice in warm water over night
Steam the rice in a steamer not a rice cooker
Cool the rice
Ferment the rice with correct ratio of yeast for 5days before adding any water
After 5days add the correct ratio of water per rice
After the wine ferments to dry strain and let clear
In my simple pot still I do my strip and a slow spirit run
I only keep hearts, the rest goes in feint bottles
I absolutely guarantee that if you do this you will get rice flavor and a smooth product

[NZChris]

After 5days add the correct ratio of water per rice

What ratio do you use?

[NZChris]

When I ask for red rice yeast in my local Asian supermarkets, all I get is blank looks. Does it have another name that would make it easier to find? I had to buy my Angel Rice Leaven on Ebay because I couldn't find it here, but I don't think it is the same as red rice yeast.

[SGB]

When I ask for red rice yeast in my local Asian supermarkets, all I get is blank looks. Does it have another name that would make it easier to find? I had to buy my Angel Rice Leaven on Ebay because I couldn't find it here, but I don't think it is the same as red rice yeast.

Here it's called "angkak" ..
A quick wiki comes up with:
Red yeast rice (simplified Chinese: 红曲米; traditional Chinese: 紅麴米; pinyin: hóng qū mǐ; lit. 'red yeast rice'), red rice koji (べにこうじ, lit. 'red koji'), red fermented rice, red kojic rice, red koji rice, anka, or angkak, is a bright reddish purple fermented rice,
But Asians(chinese in particular) are so freakn weird about language that say it just a little wrong and you get weird looks, best is show them a photo because it's used a lot for many things

[SGB]

After 5days add the correct ratio of water per rice

What ratio do you use?

I use 1-2 yeast balls per kilo uncooked rice
The Angel liquor starter the direction says 2-6% of stuff but I do about 8% or some where between 5-10grams per kilo rice.. could probably do less but that's what I do

[NZChris]

Angel makes so many products that it is easy to be confused.

Both their 'Starter of Liquor Making' and their 'Rice Leaven', look nothing like the red yeast in the pic you posted.

[SGB]

Angel makes so many products that it is easy to be confused.

Both their 'Starter of Liquor Making' and their 'Rice Leaven', look nothing like the red yeast in the pic you posted.

That is correct, they are different

[SGB]

Because the red yeast rice has many different uses such as in food recipes and in traditional medicines ...
You may be able to find the red yeast in the spice section of your Asian food market or at a Chinese traditional medicine shop or online..

[SGB]

Incidently, from a run of 4kilo rice with 12litre added water I'll get apx 1.5-litre hearts.
My run will start off at 80% I'll dump a heavy foreshot of 250ml then about 1++litre heads
My heart comes in at around 70+-% down to 60-55+-%
My tails after that drop pretty quickly and I usually just shut it down
All my heads n tails go into a feint collection and I don't use any Feints in any new fresh rice runs..

[SGB]

After 5days add the correct ratio of water per rice

What ratio do you use?

I'm sorry I mis read this at first ---

For Water: 3litres per kilo of uncooked rice
(added after your cooked rice has been fermenting"dry"for about 5days)

For yeast:

I use 1-2 yeast balls per kilo uncooked rice
The Angel liquor starter the direction says 2-6% of stuff but I do about 8% or some where between 5-10grams per kilo rice.. could probably do less but that's what I do

Note: I kilo of rice will "create " it's own +- litre of wine without any added water

[NZChris]

Incidently, from a run of 4kilo rice with 12litre added water I'll get apx 1.5-litre hearts.

I had a slightly higher yield than that using Jasmin rice and Starter of Liquor Making. Had a taste of it tonight. There is nothing wrong with it, but it's nothing to get excited about.

[SGB]

Incidently, from a run of 4kilo rice with 12litre added water I'll get apx 1.5-litre hearts.

I had a slightly higher yield than that using Jasmin rice and Starter of Liquor Making. Had a taste of it tonight. There is nothing wrong with it, but it's nothing to get excited about.

Over the many years I have lived and worked in Asia... Drinking Soju in Korea, shochu in Japan and Baiju in Taiwan... And many an all nighter waking up with a pounding headache... Personally I'm not doing back flips over it nor am I a fan. The taste just reminds me of those days. I'm just making it for my friends Chinese wife and her family and friends. I'm also not too concerned about yields as I am about taste and trying to turn out a product that tastes much better than what's sold in stores.. Personally.. I prefer straight bourbon and cold beer

[SGB]

Next time make it, I'll try and get more scientific about it and pull SG readings from each time I add a litre of water until I get to 1.060

[NZChris]

Out of curiosity, I’ve taken to recording the SG and alcohol refractometer readings. Often the abv reading rises while the SG is steady.

[SGB]

Out of curiosity, I’ve taken to recording the SG and alcohol refractometer readings. Often the abv reading rises while the SG is steady.

Well... I don't have a refractometer so I really don't know.. I just know I end up with the same amount every time

[hopwhisperer]

Maybe it's just me but Sake smells like tails to me I can't drink it anymore. I've done several rise ferments but just for a clean vodka, this is interesting going for a more traditional drink.

[lbzlittle1]

Personally I'm not doing back flips over it nor am I a fan. The taste just reminds me of those days. I'm just making it for my friends Chinese wife and her family and friends. I'm also not too concerned about yields as I am about taste and trying to turn out a product that tastes much better than what's sold in stores.. Personally.. I prefer straight bourbon and cold beer

[lbzlittle1]

Personally I'm not doing back flips over it nor am I a fan. The taste just reminds me of those days. I'm just making it for my friends Chinese wife and her family and friends. I'm also not too concerned about yields as I am about taste and trying to turn out a product that tastes much better than what's sold in stores.. Personally.. I prefer straight bourbon and cold beer

Like sake, I think craft shochu is coming back and the stuff is very different from commercial shochu.

[lbzlittle1]

I’ve had a lot of sake in Japan. Until about 30 years ago, not much of the good stuff was exported. So maybe this is the problem? Otherwise, I can’t imagine the floral, sweet, ricey smell of sake likened to tails. I just recently realized shochu was trending in the West. In my youth, it was rock gut. Cheaper than imported vodka and a faster drink than sake. But that’s probably the corporate commercial stuff. Following what info I could find on the low temp distillation process for shochu, my first batch was surprisingly smooth, flavorful, aromatic. Nothing like the swill I remember!