Turbo Yeast, Birdwatchers and distillation questions

[twistylisty]

Hi all

Very new to the distilling hobbie. Please be gentle.

I've been brewing all grain beer for a while now (6ish years) and I've decided to get into distillation. I've quickly realised there is quite a bit too it and I'm trying to find the best place for answers to all of my questions and processes.

I am using a Grainfather as the boiler as that is what I use for all grain beer brewing. Attached to the grainfather is a T500 Copper Condenser. It was relatively cheap to buy as that was all I needed however after going through a lot of posts here, it sounds like it won't be long before I end up with a pot still or something better anyway?

Anyway, onto the questions.

I've just finished fermenting a basic turbo wash. Smells strange, as I should have expected from reading a lot of these forums.

• Will I need to clean my T500 copper condenser before running this turbo wash through?

• If I should clean it first, what should I use to clean it? Could this turbo wash be a sacrificial run for me?

• I'm planning on moving away from Turbo and straight onto making a Birdwatchers wash. Once that wash has finished fermenting, do I need to complete a stripping run? If so, is this possible with my Grainfather & T500 condenser or do I need a pot still?

• If a stripping run isn't 100% needed, could I just run the birdwatchers wash through the T500 condenser once as it is and use that to then make vodka , gin etc. ?

• Still Spirits recommends running the distillation for the Turbo washes at 50-65°c (122-149f). Would I aim for this temperature when distilling a birdwatches wash?

• Let's say I decide to do a double distillation, when adding the 40% spirit back into the boiler, should this be watered back down to around 10-14% ABV first before I start distilling again?

Apologies if these questions are common and have been asked before. I've tried searching a lot on the forums however there is a lot of information to go through to find the exact answers. If they have been covered, please feel free to send me the links to the posts.

Thanks for your assistance!

[acfixer69]

Hear ya go https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 15&t=52975 Rock on.

[MartinCash]

Have you already done the recommended cleaning protocol with your T500? Have you done a vinegar run and a sacrificial run through it, I mean?

If not, then yes, the sacrificial run is a good use for your turbo wash.

As to choosing your next wash, what are you wanting to make? Birdwatchers is good for neutral, but not much else. Some other washes are a bit more versatile, such as All Bran, Deathwish Wheat Germ and Ted's Fast-Fermenting Vodka (you can use them for neutral but they're also nice as a lightly flavoured spirit).

You will probably save time by combining stripping runs as the spirit run is a long, slow affair.

I don't understand about running at 50-65 degrees. Is this the outlet temperature of your cooling water?

Your low wines can go into the boiler at 40%. You will save much time compared to diluting them more.

[twistylisty]

Martin

I haven't been able to find any recommended cleaning protocol with the T500 Condenser. I have looked through the manuals and everything that was supplied with it and it doesn't mention anything. It just talks about running your first Turbo wash through it. I haven't done a vinegar run and a sacrificial run through it yet. Is a vinegar run wise to do first? It's only the condenser that needs to be "broken in" so to speak.

I'm predominantly wanting to make vodka and gin for the first few batches and then expand my horizons hence why I was thinking birdwatches would be a good start.

Do I even need to do a stripping run or can I just run the whole thing in one go through a spirit run? There will be about 25L of wash.

The temperature is the outlet temperature. Sorry should have specified this. That is where the temp probe goes on the T500 condenser.

Should I be looking to get a pot still to do stripping runs if these are needed or can my reflux still do this if I remove the parts inside?

[twistylisty]

Hear ya go https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 15&t=52975 Rock on.

Thanks acfixer. I'm trying to go through each bit of information on here but there is a lot of reading material. Just want to ensure it all sticks in my head. Do you know if there are any specific T500 related forums on HD?

[Justinthunder]

I have no knowledge of a T500 but if you have a copper condenser I would highly recommend doing a 50/50 vinegar and water cleaning run followed by a sac run. Better safe than sorry. It honestly doesn’t take that long and it’s better than making something un drinkable.

[twistylisty]

I have no knowledge of a T500 but if you have a copper condenser I would highly recommend doing a 50/50 vinegar and water cleaning run followed by a sac run. Better safe than sorry. It honestly doesn’t take that long and it’s better than making something un drinkable.

Thanks Justin. Yeah it's a copper condenser. SO should I just chuck 10L Vinegar and 10L water in and just do a cleaning run with that first? I could then use my turbo wash as the sacrificial run as I wasn't planning on drinking all of it.

[Yummyrum]

Hi Twisty .

There are two heads now for a T500 .

For many years when someone said that have a T500 , it meant they were talking about the the reflux still .

76135A76-D67A-4B5A-B23F-C30B5E977911.jpeg (11.76 KiB) Viewed 2183 times

Now there is the Alembic T500 Pot still head .

6871602E-E690-4FEF-986D-BD37F4DC369D.jpeg (16.87 KiB) Viewed 2183 times

So it is always good to mention which one you got in discussions as folk can give you a whole bunch of irrelevant info otherwise relating to the “other “ still you may not have.

[twistylisty]

Good point, Yummy.

I have the Reflux still.

I am however now considering purchasing the Alembic Pot Still head as that would be a lot easier for doing stripping runs before putting it through the reflux still.

I also don't have it connected to the standard T500 boiler. I have the reflux still connected to my Grainfather Connect which means I can control the power amount that is used. Just thought I would throw that in there.

T

[howie]

I also don't have it connected to the standard T500 boiler. I have the reflux still connected to my Grainfather Connect which means I can control the power amount that is used. Just thought I would throw that in there.

T
[/quote]
unfamiliar with the grainfather but...
when you say you can control the power amount, is that done by dialing in a particular temp or has it got the ability to dial in a wattage/voltage.

[Saltbush Bill]

G'day Twisty,
The only thing a T500 thermometer will tell you is what the temperature of the water leaving the reflex condenser is. The temp quoted by the manufacturer is a very rough guide at best. For this reason alone you might as well ignore it completely and go by visual output. Sight smell and taste are your friends here.
You will learn a lot from using a T500, but you wont learn it by reading the manual that came with it or by listening to the bloke in the shop who sold it to you.
The more water you feed through the reflux condencer the slower the out put , the slower the output the more the reflux, the more the reflux the cleaner / purer / the higher the ABV.
A very very thin stream or a broken stream leaving the still will give you better results than watching any thermometer. Take fores and heads even slower ....a slow to fast drip , depending on how much patience's you have.
I cut my teeth on one of those things so I do understand how they work.

[Yummyrum]

Do listen to Salty . He cut his teeth on the T500 and he also moved on . He knows the strengths and weaknesses of that still .

when you say you can control the power amount, is that done by dialing in a particular temp or has it got the ability to dial in a wattage/voltage.

This a very valid point Howie makes .

As I understand it , the grainFather is a mashing machine and as such , its all about steep mashing and temps .

Can you dial in a power .? .... not a temp ... because if you can’t , you might have one hell of a time getting the reflux still to work .

[twistylisty]

unfamiliar with the grainfather but...
when you say you can control the power amount, is that done by dialing in a particular temp or has it got the ability to dial in a wattage/voltage.

Hi Howie - I can dial in the power amount which I assume is the wattage/voltage. I can also do a particular temp but pretty certain I can do wattage/voltage also.

T

[twistylisty]

G'day Twisty,
The only thing a T500 thermometer will tell you is what the temperature of the water leaving the reflex condenser is. The temp quoted by the manufacturer is a very rough guide at best. For this reason alone you might as well ignore it completely and go by visual output. Sight smell and taste are your friends here.
You will learn a lot from using a T500, but you wont learn it by reading the manual that came with it or by listening to the bloke in the shop who sold it to you.
The more water you feed through the reflux condencer the slower the out put , the slower the output the more the reflux, the more the reflux the cleaner / purer / the higher the ABV.
A very very thin stream or a broken stream leaving the still will give you better results than watching any thermometer. Take fores and heads even slower ....a slow to fast drip , depending on how much patience's you have.
I cut my teeth on one of those things so I do understand how they work.

Hey mate, appreciate the advice. Did you ever or would you ever use a T500 reflux for a stripping run or would you suggest purchasing the additional pot still attachment as Yummy has pictured above? I'm trying to figure out if a stripping run is possible and if not. Could I just run a birdwatchers wash through a normal reflux process and just take fores, heads and try to ensure I have a steady but not too fast drip instead of doing a stripping run first?

Do listen to Salty . He cut his teeth on the T500 and he also moved on . He knows the strengths and weaknesses of that still .

when you say you can control the power amount, is that done by dialing in a particular temp or has it got the ability to dial in a wattage/voltage.

This a very valid point Howie makes .

As I understand it , the grainFather is a mashing machine and as such , its all about steep mashing and temps .

Can you dial in a power .? .... not a temp ... because if you can’t , you might have one hell of a time getting the reflux still to work .

Cheers Yummy. I have actually confirmed that the Grainfather connect can set both the temperature of the boiler as well as the amount of power it is outputting. This can be done in 5% increments. So I either run it at max power (100%) or I can dial it back if need be. More info on that is here: https://help.stillspirits.com/hc/en-us/ ... ontrol-Box

[stevexxx]

You can strip with the T500, just drop the water flow into the low 60's or where it works without the product getting hot in the outflow and it will run faster no problems. Don't forget you are NOT limited to that expensive bling dome thing and tiny condenser, (can you tell I'm not a fan) For a few bob you can fit a 2" bulkhead triclamp adaptor to the lid and run any 2" column you want including the T500

[twistylisty]

You can strip with the T500, just drop the water flow into the low 60's or where it works without the product getting hot in the outflow and it will run faster no problems. Don't forget you are NOT limited to that expensive bling dome thing and tiny condenser, (can you tell I'm not a fan) For a few bob you can fit a 2" bulkhead triclamp adaptor to the lid and run any 2" column you want including the T500

Cheers Steve. Would you remove all the saddles from inside first or would you just leave them in?

T

[Saltbush Bill]

Hey mate, appreciate the advice. Did you ever or would you ever use a T500 reflux for a stripping run

Some say you can strip with them but I wont personally recommend stripping with one.
I once let mine run for about a minute without water going to the reflux, after that it leaked around the cap at the top of the column....took a bit to get it sealed up again. Ive heard of this happening to other people as well.

or would you suggest purchasing the additional pot still attachment as Yummy has pictured above?

The biggest improvements I made to my spirit while using a T500 was when I tossed the turbo yeast and started using proper washes from forums like this. The other big improvement was when I moved on to stripping runs.......the third was when I realized that I didn't have to be a slave to the thermometer,,,,,I could run by sight , smell and taste.
Those T500 pot still heads are horribly over priced for what they are.....you could build the same thing from copper for less than $100 au.

Could I just run a birdwatchers wash through a normal reflux process and just take fores, heads and try to ensure I have a steady but not too fast drip instead of doing a stripping run first?

You can and I did that for a while when I first started out, you can make reasonable neutral that way if your harsh with the cuts, Having said that a boiler full of low wines will produce a better result every time.
Id suggest you stick to running a nice clean wash for a while until you get the hang of it ..Shadys Sugar shine should give you a clean result run through that still.
Once you have everything worked out build or buy a pot head for stripping, that way you get time to think about which way you really want to go.

[stevexxx]

As I only use it for neutrals I leave them in, the only time I remove them is if I want some transfer of flavour but I use my 2" pot for that anyway and often for stripping as its faster. Depending on the wash I often only do one run anyway. If you are new to the T500 its always worth trying a single run and collect in small jars till you get used to it. you might want to keep the hearts or run it again or even filter between runs but its all up to you.. Edit.. Birdwatchers, 2 runs I find, strip and a spirit run.. Kale I get away with one run.. Salty is spot on above, you can strip by running it hotter but best not to go to full pot mode, just run it faster.. It will leak anyway but there is a simple fix when it does if its bothersome.. Join the T500 group on facebook, lots of tips and help there but use this place for facts and research, to many opinions on FB, I'll post a link in a bit

[stevexxx]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1985399311766168

[twistylisty]

The biggest improvements I made to my spirit while using a T500 was when I tossed the turbo yeast and started using proper washes from forums like this. The other big improvement was when I moved on to stripping runs... The third was when I realized that I didn't have to be a slave to the thermometer... I could run by sight , smell and taste.
Those T500 pot still heads are horribly over priced for what they are.....you could build the same thing from copper for less than $100 au.

Excellent advice mate. I appreciate that.
I'm sure I can find a cheap and easy pot still attachment that will fit my Grainfather. Just haven't done enough research.

I think for the first few runs (once I sacrifice this once turbo wash I've done), I will just run the whole thing through the reflux still without doing a stripping run. I know it won't give me the most pure and neutral spirit but at least it will give me something to start with. It will also be a good opportunity to learn about where to cut so I will be smelling and tasting it as I go.

By the time I have the hang of it all, I'm sure I'll be looking at a completely different setup away from the T500!

T

[howie]

unfamiliar with the grainfather but...
when you say you can control the power amount, is that done by dialing in a particular temp or has it got the ability to dial in a wattage/voltage.

Hi Howie - I can dial in the power amount which I assume is the wattage/voltage. I can also do a particular temp but pretty certain I can do wattage/voltage also.

T

that's a good feature.
i read the link about the control box, the last paragraph is a bit confusing.
"You should make your cuts at specific output temperatures (or ABV) which change constantly, but if you slow down how fast the spirit comes out you have more time to take the measurements and make your cuts at the right time"
but with the great info on here, you will be ok

[Saltbush Bill]

I know it won't give me the most pure and neutral spirit but at least it will give me something to start with. It will also be a good opportunity to learn about where to cut so I will be smelling and tasting it as I go.

Be sure to collect in seperate cuts jars.....keep running different washes, play with the speed / water flow.....learn what has what effect on taste and purity.....all of these things will help you as time goes by, it just might not seem so simple to begin with.......but you will learn from it all one way or the other.

[Saltbush Bill]

It will leak anyway but there is a simple fix when it does if its bothersome

Any leak on any still has the potential to become far more than "Bothersome".....distilling should be stopped immediately and the problem fixed, or the run aborted if it cant be easily fixed.
If people on that facebook site say different then they don't know shit and so I wouldn't take any advice from them. Any leak from the top of a T500 is going to be 90+ ABV Alcohol or alcohol vapours.......both are highly flamable / explosive.

[stevexxx]

You are right of coarse and any leaks in use the still should be shut down, but that's not what I was referring to and perhaps I should have been clearer but I cant edit it now
.. By leaks on the T500 its generally accepted that it leaks while inverted (which is what I meant) when cleaning and not leaking fumes while in use... I don't like leaks but it didn't seem to be loosing vapour on a run so I didn't worry about it too much until it got bad, and I mean by bad when filling with citric acid water to clean and it leaks out through the cap, not actualy leaking during the run.. then the cap is stepped and there was no sign of leakage in use where there is less pressure .. Just because I didn't detect leakage doesn't mean to say it a potential danger for others I agree.. Did you actualy have vapor leakage in use? May be ive been hoodwinked into thinking its not so serious but so many people think its ok and running their T500 with a cap that is not airtight, I would really like to establish the facts here I can quote.... does that make sense? had a few drinkies here.

The biggest danger from still spirits ive come across was from their alembic condenser, the supplied seal was so thin it actualy slid between the fitting and the lid leaked terribly and was a absolute danger to anyone using it and still is I understand unless resolved..Neither still spirits or my supplier wanted to know despite pictures I sent to them..

[Saltbush Bill]

Mine dripped alcohol down the side of the column after i over heated it. Pulled it apart and wrapped side of cap with ptfe tape.....problem fixed
Liquid Management and Vapour Management reflux stills need to be vented at the top to remain open to atmosphere at all times.
Cooling Management stills are open to atmosphere at all times via the product condencer so dont need a vent.
Any vent or leak in the top of a CM is trouble waiting to happen in my opinion.