The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

[OtisT]

Where did that glue comment come from? I don’t recall any talk about using glue in the construction of these. All I have made, the ones Badmo makes, and all I have read about folks making use beeswax, oak, and stainless steel.

Otis

[vernue]

Early on, Badmo was talking about using a thin flour paste or caramel for a glue, then developed techniques that made a glue redundant.

[OtisT]

Oops, sorry. I re-read the first page and he did start with glue and started using beeswax on page 2.

[closetdistiller]

I'm thinking of making some of these.

The lid is a press fit. What I'd like to know is how much of a press fit ? 10 thou over ? 20 thou over ? Or how much force does it take to properly press in ? 2 tons ? 4 tons ? 6 tons ?

Thanks for the great thread.

[Badmotivator]

I'm thinking of making some of these.

The lid is a press fit. What I'd like to know is how much of a press fit ? 10 thou over ? 20 thou over ? Or how much force does it take to properly press in ? 2 tons ? 4 tons ? 6 tons ?

Thanks for the great thread.

Cheers, CD!

I don’t think you need to worry much about the pressure or the precise tolerances, and here’s why: by the time you are pressing the head, that wood should be very dry. When you fill the barrel and let it soak, the wood will want to swell. I can’t remember the precise numbers, but I think it’s something like 1% along the grain and 3% across the grain if the wood is not constrained. That’s enough to tighten most barrels.

I used to just bang the barrel heads into the can with a mallet (don’t forget to spread the force out with a block) and that worked fine. I got a 12-ton shop press out of convenience, not because it was needed.

If your head is shaped so that it drops into the can to about 1/4 to ½ of its thickness without pressure, experience tells me that after pressing it the rest of the way in using whatever method it stands a good chance of tightening from the swelling.

A more important concern, I think, is the smoothness and roundness of the head, and the absence of channels at stave joints that can’t close up. Beeswax helps a lot.

[Zeotropic]

.

[closetdistiller]

Cheers, CD!

Wow, didn't expect a reply from you, Badmotivator. Thanks.

I don’t think you need to worry much about the pressure or the precise tolerances, and here’s why: by the time you are pressing the head, that wood should be very dry. When you fill the barrel and let it soak, the wood will want to swell. I can’t remember the precise numbers, but I think it’s something like 1% along the grain and 3% across the grain if the wood is not constrained. That’s enough to tighten most barrels.

Fair enough. This is probably one of those situations where one worries and over thinks it until they get hands on with the application.

I used to just bang the barrel heads into the can with a mallet (don’t forget to spread the force out with a block) and that worked fine. I got a 12-ton shop press out of convenience, not because it was needed.

Funny thing is that I have a 12 ton press too and was going to use it to press in the head. I know that one of your pots split, so I am trying to figure out where the middle ground is.

If your head is shaped so that it drops into the can to about 1/4 to ½ of its thickness without pressure, experience tells me that after pressing it the rest of the way in using whatever method it stands a good chance of tightening from the swelling.

That sounds like a great metric.

A more important concern, I think, is the smoothness and roundness of the head, and the absence of channels at stave joints that can’t close up. Beeswax helps a lot.

Excellent points. Thanks for the reply.

[Badmotivator]

Funny thing is that I have a 12 ton press too and was going to use it to press in the head. I know that one of your pots split, so I am trying to figure out where the middle ground is.

My friend and I just bottled a blend of brandies that he was aging in badmotivator barrels since Jan ‘17. One of his 1.6 gal barrels had leaked a lot. When we popped the barrel head off and investigated, we found 3! places where the stainless steel had cracked. Holy cow, man. That’s an issue.

The can still had the sticker on the back. It was an Update International BMP-825. I don’t have the info for the couple of other barrels I saw splits in, because I foolishly didn’t consider that there might be important differences between brands. These days I am using Thunder Group SLBM006 cans. Glad to know that I’m not still using the same kind. I know this is kind of “inside baseball” stuff for most of you all. I hope somebody gets some value out of this info.

[Zeotropic]

Funny thing is that I have a 12 ton press too and was going to use it to press in the head. I know that one of your pots split, so I am trying to figure out where the middle ground is.

My friend and I just bottled a blend of brandies that he was aging in badmotivator barrels since Jan ‘17. One of his 1.6 gal barrels had leaked a lot. When we popped the barrel head off and investigated, we found 3! places where the stainless steel had cracked. Holy cow, man. That’s an issue.

The can still had the sticker on the back. It was an Update International BMP-825. I don’t have the info for the couple of other barrels I saw splits in, because I foolishly didn’t consider that there might be important differences between brands. These days I am using Thunder Group SLBM006 cans. Glad to know that I’m not still using the same kind. I know this is kind of “inside baseball” stuff for most of you all. I hope somebody gets some value out of this info.

Thanks. I plan to make a few at some point so I will keep it in mind.
I read this thread a while back and researched on google but I haven't been able to find a good way to cut a circle. Have you posted your circle cutting jig?

[Badmotivator]

I read this thread a while back and researched on google but I haven't been able to find a good way to cut a circle. Have you posted your circle cutting jig?

I was planning to remake that video with my newer jig, on my "new" (1973) bandsaw, but haven't gotten to it yet. In the mean time, I included it on the "build" page on my website, linked in my signature below. Hope it gives you an idea of how it works.

Back in the day I successfully used a jigsaw and later a circle cutting jig on my cranky old table saw! That was a nasty operation, but it worked. A properly set-up bandsaw is a dream.

[Badmotivator]

I know this looks weird, but bear with me...

I decided to pull a Medium Toast, No Char barrel from the store and run a test on it.

Here's the idea: In years past, the barrels I made used wood weathered over maybe one winter, which works. But during my long hiatus, I had a bunch of wood outside getting (presumably) nicer and nicer, over at least three winters. I estimated that it amounts to 65-70 barrels worth. So I hauled it all inside to dry and set about getting geared up to produce barrels with greater accuracy and efficiency.

Then I got to wondering how good the older oak tastes. I wanted to separate the oak completely from the distillate. So... two bigass bottles of NGS, proofed down to 120, interred in a M0 barrel, and away we go!

I'm looking forward to some relatively quick results, in a way. I should be able to detect the character of the tannins (or absence of them) within a few months, and certainly within six. And the experiment should be instructive way into the future too.

It's good to be back, y'all.

[Deplorable]

Damn. I need to retire so I have more time to play. You guys have all the fun. Im stuck here at work.

[bluc]

How long should the oak be seasoned and should it be out in full weather rain etc or partially shielded?

[SaltyStaves]

I'm looking forward to some relatively quick results, in a way. I should be able to detect the character of the tannins (or absence of them) within a few months, and certainly within six. And the experiment should be instructive way into the future too.

I think the tannin softening is relatively quick and probably only needs a season. What takes longer, is the breakdown of cellulose into hemicellulose by the fungi.
Hemicellulose is what gives you those wood sugars when the wood is burnt (Mallard reaction).

For me, I don't start counting the months until that mold appears on the wood and that usually takes several months with on and off rain.

[Badmotivator]

How long should the oak be seasoned and should it be out in full weather rain etc or partially shielded?

Stave mills put their wood out in giant yards and just let it sit there, in the weather, for years.

My opinion is that oak should have as long as you can stand to wait. A rainy season with the oak fully exposed is a minimum. This latest experiment should give me another data point for how more time might improve the flavor.

Bottom of this page, describing a stave mill’s weathering: https://moonshineuniversity.com/the-ram ... tave-mill/
Robinson Stave says 6-8 months or longer: https://www.robinsonstave.com/product/
Some beautiful photos of a stave yard at West Virginia Great Barrel Company: https://www.wvgbc.com/our-wood
Distillery Trail- Understanding Oak Barrel Maturation ( skip down to “Seasoning” if you like): https://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/un ... s-not-age/

[Zeotropic]

I read this thread a while back and researched on google but I haven't been able to find a good way to cut a circle. Have you posted your circle cutting jig?

I was planning to remake that video with my newer jig, on my "new" (1973) bandsaw, but haven't gotten to it yet. In the mean time, I included it on the "build" page on my website, linked in my signature below. Hope it gives you an idea of how it works.

Back in the day I successfully used a jigsaw and later a circle cutting jig on my cranky old table saw! That was a nasty operation, but it worked. A properly set-up bandsaw is a dream.

Thanks. I miss some things using tapatalk. I never saw your signature.
Your work is awesome.

[Badmotivator]

Thanks. I miss some things using tapatalk. I never saw your signature.
Your work is awesome.

Shoot, I never thought of that. I’ve had a link to my instructional videos in my sig for years, and I thought that would be enough for anyone who might need them. Darn it.

Folks, at the risk of being accused of self-promotion, but truly in the spirit of trying to be helpful, I would like to let you all know that I set up a website at https://badmotivatorbarrels.com

On that site you will find a thorough step-by-step illustrated guide to making these barrels at home using my current “best practices”. (Video updating and editing continues. Please ask if you need me to clarify or expand any part of it!)

If you lack the tools, skills, materials, or inclination to build your own, I do also sell and ship them.

I’m truly sorry if this seems like unwelcome self-promotion, and I expect that this will be the last time I mention it.

[Zeotropic]

Thanks. I miss some things using tapatalk. I never saw your signature.
Your work is awesome.

Shoot, I never thought of that. I’ve had a link to my instructional videos in my sig for years, and I thought that would be enough for anyone who might need them. Darn it.

Folks, at the risk of being accused of self-promotion, but truly in the spirit of trying to be helpful, I would like to let you all know that I set up a website at https://badmotivatorbarrels.com

On that site you will find a thorough step-by-step illustrated guide to making these barrels at home using my current “best practices”. (Video updating and editing continues. Please ask if you need me to clarify or expand any part of it!)

If you lack the tools, skills, materials, or inclination to build your own, I do also sell and ship them.

I’m truly sorry if this seems like unwelcome self-promotion, and I expect that this will be the last time I mention it.

I don't think this could be considered self promotion because your website teaches how to make the product you are selling.
I greatly respect that and I plan to buy one someday along with building a bunch for myself.
I am on the verge of quitting tapatalk. I feel like it controls what I see way to much. I miss way too many funny signatures and I have problems with the adds showing back up.

Thank you for all the work you put in to developing this amazing method. I can't wait to build my own.

[ydoih8u]

Picked up a barrel from badmotivator when he posted the link. Great quality, well packed, and quickly shipped. A really good option for us without woodworking skills haha. I can't wait to get some booze in there... Will probably be rum for the first use.

[rubberduck71]

Folks, at the risk of being accused of self-promotion, but truly in the spirit of trying to be helpful, I would like to let you all know that I set up a website at https://badmotivatorbarrels.com

Holy crap! This is music to my ears!!! 1.6 gal = 6L so I'm loving your price point in comparison to other internet barrel providers...

I just bookmarked your site for future purchases.

Duck

[Badmotivator]

News:

I think I am going to scrap the circle-cutting jig. That thing is awesome when it’s set up juuuuuust right on granddad’s old bandsaw. Which it never is. The blade deflects, gets bogged down, I say bad words, it’s ugly. I’ve decided to just freehand a “circle” on a compass line, and do all of the sizing and rounding and beveling on the circle-sanding jig. Band saw does that cut just fine with much less frustration. The sander is what makes it perfect anyway, so a rougher cut doesn’t matter a bit.

Painting wax on the stave joints and the croze was tedious. I bought some silicone foam sheet and made a waxing wheel. This wheel dips into melted wax, and all I have to do is roll the stave or froze along it and it does the painting for me. Wax On!


I am also looking forward to a new shield for charring the heads. My old shield is a stainless pot lid, roughly cut out in the center. The thin stainless warps like crazy under the attack of the torch’s hellfire, leaving portions of the edges unprotected and damaged, and sometimes allowing the flames to reach around and discolor the face of the barrel head. IrishGnome has been extremely gracious and amazingly helpful in helping with the design and fabrication of new shields. I have a stack of rounds ready to char, and I can’t wait to show off his work in a new charring video. Stay tuned.

[Badmotivator]

Here’s a treat! IrishGnome came through like a goddamned champion on the custom shields for charring barrel heads. It isn’t every day that a new tool gives you such a giant leap in quality and convenience, eliminates problems, etc. so when it happens... boy, that’s a good feeling that doesn’t wear off quick. I’ve been wanting something like this for a long time. Thank you, IrishGnome, sincerely and forever.

[Deplorable]

Ha! that's a nice process improvement right there!

[OtisT]

Sweet new tool you got there Badmo.

Otis

[Saltbush Bill]

Its always good to see forum folk helping each other out.
Ive lost track of the ways in which distiller folk have helped me over the years.
Nice work IrishGnome.

[Irishgnome]

Watching the evolution of the Badmo Barrel is amazing!
Glad I could help.
Cheers
Irish

[rubberduck71]

Here’s a treat! IrishGnome came through like a goddamned champion on the custom shields for charring barrel heads. It isn’t every day that a new tool gives you such a giant leap in quality and convenience, eliminates problems, etc. so when it happens... boy, that’s a good feeling that doesn’t wear off quick. I’ve been wanting something like this for a long time. Thank you, IrishGnome, sincerely and forever.

So this is charred, ya? Will it become an option for purchase in your shop???

Duck

[Badmotivator]

So this is charred, ya? Will it become an option for purchase in your shop???

Duck

I just put together 14 barrels today, crossing the “100” line. They’re all filled with water. I’m on vacation this weekend, but when I get back those barrels will have proven tight and they’ll be ready to go! All medium toast, char 3.

[bluc]

Any chance of just selling the pre-made barrel heads? Save on freight and time sourcing and weathering the oak..

[The Baker]

Any chance of just selling the pre-made barrel heads? Save on freight and time sourcing and weathering the oak..

I would be interested in that because I live in Australia and shipping would be easier. Less bulky.
I love the idea of these barrels but would not be able to make them. I am not skilled in woodworking at all.

Geoff