FLUTE TALK

[BrewinBrian44]

Damn, I guess I got so used to reading “spirits are always better when stripped then spirit ran. I didn’t realize all your guys were doing single runs for whiskey on your flutes!

I have done a 10gal single run of UJ with 4 plates and it was great. I got a little over two 40% fifths with tight cuts for keeping it white.

I’ve got about 10 gallons of wash clearing in my chest freezer after squeezing through a mop strainer last night. I could rack off of that and add one of my stripped runs to it as a 1.5 run with 2 plates? Think this’ll work?

I could just do it as a pot spirit run.... but I love using this damn column haha!

[Saltbush Bill]

Id say 3 plates minimum.

[frunobulax]

I say 2 Max!! LOL

[v-child]

I could just do it as a pot spirit run.... but I love using this damn column haha!

Nah, you're still trying to justify the rig's expense and love the tech. I have a high-performance homemade VM/ LM column that will perform with the best of them, but I hardly ever use it. You'll eventually find the taste you enjoy no matter which method you use. Any failures can be re-distilled.

[BrewinBrian44]

Haha decisions decisions!

I think I owe it to myself to try different configurations to see the flavor differences for myself. I’ll split my low wines
And remaining fresh wash in half.

I’ll try the two plates first doing a 1.5 run. Next I’ll do a 3 plate 1.5 run.

Moving forward, I’ll try a single run with 3 plates when my next batch is ready to distill. It’ll be really interesting comparing all 3 white. If one tastes too light, I might just keep it as a white sipper.

I also need to try a pot strip/spirit. The stripper run flavor was incredible. Like a honey graham cracker!

Gotta fill this new 5 gallon Gibbs barrel ASAP!

Thanks again for the comments. This forum is truly amazing. Learned everything I know about distilling here.

[Bushman]

Gotta fill this new 5 gallon Gibbs barrel ASAP!

Quality before quantity!

[BrewinBrian44]

Well folks, tried the 1.5 run with two plates and made some nasty stuff.

For the life of me, I couldn’t find a way to stop dragging tails through the whole run. I ended up calling it quits about half way through and dumped everything minus the worst heads back into the still.

I tried different reflux ratios, one with more power/reflux and one with low power/reflux for the same takeoff speed

When I ran more power, there was a furious amount of activity on the plates, but it was just smearing everything.

When I ran less power/reflux, the bubbles were smaller and active and there were no more visible legs showing up on the glass. The spirit definitely got cleaner this way, but only with the 2drips per sec takeoff. Once I turned the needle valve to the RC down enough to get better takeoff, it was barely a trickle and boom, smearing again because not enough reflux.... what kind of takeoff are you guys expecting with two plates?

I wonder if my problem with using only two plates is the pools aren’t wide and deep enough. My rig is only 3” plates and I believe the downcommers are like 3/4” tall. I’d need to measure to be positive though.

I’m gonna start over and run it again. Not worth keeping bad cuts. I think I might just jump back to 4 plates and sacrifice some flavor since I’m more comfortable with that configuration. It’s definitely a lot more forgiving. I’d love more insight from you guys.

[Tummydoc]

Brian, do you have perforated plates or bubble caps? And if bubble caps how many per plate? Mine is a 3 inch bubble cap borosilicate column from aliexpress. Comes as 4 plates, each with 4 bubble caps (one inverted as the downcomer), all copper. I run CCVM and it sounds like you are coolant management. I've never run low wines (except with a packed column above the plates for a neutral). Running a ferment I'll bleed fores at 4-6 drips/sec for about 300 mls. I then raise the condensor and run a pencil lead stream throughout. Plate liquid bed is probably 3-4 cm (1.5 inch) and that seems independent of the number of plates. By memory I think i draw 1.5-2 liters/ hour. If i run too much power the liquid bed can fill the entire chamber. Don't know if those observations help since it may be apples to oranges if you're running low wines on collant management with different plates.

More plates should trap tails, but i dont see tails smearing at 2. I find 3 plates seems to be my preference.

[BrewinBrian44]

Hey Tummy,

Sounds like we have similar plate designs. Mine are 3 bubble caps and an inverted cap downcomer. I also got mine from Ali Express

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H44ee89f1427 ... 640Q90.jpg

I run it as a CM with a shotgun defleg on top controlled by a needle valve. My water source is from the tap.

[v-child]

Those things look heavy. What kind of seals are used to keep the vapor/ liquid in?

[BrewinBrian44]

It is heavy! Silicone seals, but I wrapped them in Teflon tape. I use PTFE Tri clamp gaskets too

[BrewinBrian44]

Running on 4 plates right now. Way better separation and there’s still a ton of flavor coming through. I’ll post up the results!

[BrewinBrian44]

Update:

Okay, this thing is a flavor machine even with 4 plates.

I’ve got honey graham cracker flyin out the spout with this HBB 1.5 run. I’m milking out the early tails now running a bit slower, this is where the flavor is hiding.

Thing is, I can get this flavor with my pot still, but I find with the plated rig, it’s much easier to make the flavor more refined and controllable.

If I’m getting this much flavor with partial low wines, I can only imagine how good it’ll be with fresh wash.

Looking forward to doing the cuts tomorrow!

[Saltbush Bill]

There is a reason that most commercially available plated columns come as 4 platers.
Its a combination thats been proved to work time and again.

[BrewinBrian44]

Saltbush, yeah man, I’m a believer. I’m just gonna use 4 plates for everything now lol.

I’m extremely pleased with today’s results.

I figured out what I was doing wrong before to get so many heads.... running too much vapor speed. Essentially smearing hearts jars with heads and dragging them out.

I’ve dialed the power back quite a bit and am yielding waaaay more heart jars and not having to fuss with the reflux to keep knocking late tails flavor back down the plates.

Thanks again for all the advice!

[Windy City]

I have a four plate side column with bubble caps.
If I want to “strip”to make a neutral I use all four plates and then run it through a packed column. If I am making brown spirits ie;rum or bourbon I normally run two plates to mimic a pot still strip/spirit run. I just ran a 100% malted rye and was debating the quantity of plates, but in the end I wanted a big rye flavor in this whiskey so I only ran two plates. I just filled my barrel but had enough left over for a couple of glasses white and I can say with confidence this is going to turn out nice. My cuts where tight as always, going for quality over quantity but the final flavor was phenomenal rye. I joked with Jimbo that it was BeefSteak rye (bread) without the ham and cheese.
If you push two plates, three plates, four plates, six plates too hard you will smear heads hearts tails. If you run your column at its sweet spot, where it almost wants to run on autopilot you can make a great product with any of the above configurations.
Your distilling apparatus is just one part of making a good product. If you have a poor mash or fermentation any still will have a hard time making something enjoyable. And as always don’t get greedy with cuts.

[shadylane]

There's many ways to getter done.
I'm a firm believer in doing stripping runs.

One run and done, even with plates or packing doesn't make the best whisky, rum nor sugar shine.
The cons of a reflux still is it boils the nasties in the pot several times as long, as compared to a stripping run.

[LWTCS]

The cons of a reflux still is it boils the nasties in the pot several times as long, as compared to a stripping run.

That is a really good point Shady.

[Stonecutter]

You need a valve in the system to regulate the flow of coolant through the dephlegmater, if you put this on the coolant exit, you can keep the pressure up without overcooling, also any changes you make should be given a few minutes to take effect, they don't happen instantly. You only need a trickle going through to do the job.


OD

I’ve always controlled incoming coolant assuming it was the standard. It seems Master OD was/is using a valve to control outgoing flow. Reading through the comments it was brought up that lag times between adjustments might increase with this kind of a setup. Anyone run in this manner or have any suggestions?

[shadylane]

I’ve always controlled incoming coolant assuming it was the standard. It seems Master OD was/is using a valve to control outgoing flow. Reading through the comments it was brought up that lag times between adjustments might increase with this kind of a setup. Anyone run in this manner or have any suggestions?

The way I figure it, what matters is the cooling flow.
Putting the valve on either end of the condenser will work for that.

Folks with a tube and shell dephlegmator might want the valve on the inlet.
That would decrease the odds of solder joint's leaking.

[Saltbush Bill]

Ive always run my needle valve on the outlet side of the dephaglmator.
There has been endless discussion on the pros and cons of valve placement in many threads and on more than one forum.
In the end its a personal choice I think.
If a tube and shell condencer cant handle the pressure of a valve on the outlet it should have been soldered better when built.

[LWTCS]

Flow control on the discharge side.

[cranky]

I personally don't like to pressurize my condensers. It really doesn't have anything to do with trusting my soldering, it has more to do with the fact that stuff happens and the best way to avoid a leak is not to set yourself up to cause one. That's why my valves are on the inlet side. I use a tube and shell on my big packed column but my flute has a dimroth.

[HighlandWee]

I run a 4 plate 4 inch copper column, last week was halfway through a run in the middle of the hearts when the alcometer started bouncing in the parrot. Watched it and it was surging and sucking back.. Though somethings wrong, frantically turned on full water to the reflux and turned powe down but it was still surging. Grabbed the product condenser which is normally too cold to keep your hand on and it was hot.. Wifey had jumped in the shower and the washing machine was fulling up. I have swapped to needle valves after the condensers now, but had been completely happy with them before the condensers prior to that run. Damn lucky I was watching the run.

[Saltbush Bill]

And that my friend is why we don't turn our backs on stills

[TwoSheds]

I had a similar issue the other day, PC suddenly hot, cooling water was still cool and nothing else had changed. Lifted the output from the PC and it was barely anything, opened the needle valve and at some point it started flowing normally all of a sudden.

Best guess is the pump sucked up a piece of dirt or something (maybe a piece of label from the frozen water bottles I use in the cooler) and I cleared it.

Still working on my cooling setup, but will definitely be cleaning it more thoroughly between runs from here on.

Just like with anything safety related, stack the odds in your favor and things usually don’t get out of hand!

[Delloman]

I personally run my valve on the exit side I want my shotgun full of water if you put it on the in side I have experience it draining faster then water enters. As for the above about your hydrometer buffering do you have a gass relief tube on your still?

[CoogeeBoy]

Observations with my 4 plate bubblecap 3” column:

I have a modular bubble plate column that’s basically 4 borosilicate sight glass sections with 3”TC stainless ends.

Pardon me but I thought the "flute" columns used simple perforated plates not with plates with bubblecaps or am I mistaken (again).

[Yummyrum]

The name Flute was coined by Olddog when he made his first one which had perf plates .
But when he made the Flute Mk11 , it had single bubble caps .
So I think a Flute has become the nickname for any plated still , bubble cap , perf plate or valved plate .

[Saltbush Bill]

Yummy is correct that the Flute name can apply to caps or perf plates.
I think someone other than Olddog originaly said that it "looked like a flute"......the name just took off from there.