Shady's Sugar Shine

[Yummyrum]

After it ferments , let is settle fir a few days .When you syphon off you can go right down to the hard yeast cake i the bottom . I tilt my fermenter a bit when I get close to the bottom and suck up every drop before the yeast cake starts to stir.

Remember that 4 plate plated stills were designed to pass over flavour as apposed to a Tall packed reflux still like a BOKA . Perhaps its not the right still for a Nuetral wash .

However , it is better to strip a neutral wash first before running through a reflux still . Even in a plated still it will help clean it up a bit better .

Finally , sometimes beginners can confuse yeasty to the musty taste / smell of tails .

[Saltbush Bill]

Good advice there from Yummy ....I agree totally, after it settles the yeast will stay put on the bottom....I dont even bother to siphon.
You can run it straight out of the fermenter tap, a tiny bit of yeast sediment will come out in the first few mls of wash. You can throw that bit away. The rest of the yeast will stay put even if you tilt the fermenter carefully to get the last of the wash.
I'm also thinking what you are tasting is tails.
Your not going to get everything perfect the first few times.
Most folk will run a packed section on top of 4 plates if they are trying to make a neutral using a plated column.

[CSlay]

Thanks Yummy my goal is Gin and thought I could produce a good neutral with this set up to get me there. I’ll try another stripping run then spirit run both. Thanks for the insight much appreciated

[CSlay]

And thank you Saltbush. I’ll work on adding packing and update you on the results. Big learning curve and definitely requires experience as well as book study. Big thanks to all who are willing to help us rookies.

[B_Stilling]

Got 30L bubbling away as we speak, hopefully ready by next week. Cant wait

[shadylane]

The metric version of the sugar shine recipe is available here.

https://www.coppercustomstillcomponents ... 376#p91376

[shadylane]

I’ll try another stripping run then spirit run both.

Stripping and spirit runs seems to be the best way for making neutral
I like to use the CM column for stripping runs. Heat the boiler like I was doing a pot-still stripping run.
Use enough reflux to limit the output to a fast drip for a small forshots cut.
Then speed things up considerably for the rest of the stripping run.
The boiler power remains constant during the run.
So the only other control available is the take off rate.

[MtRainier]

Got a 20 gallon batch of this finishing up ferment now and will strip this weekend.

This is good timing on your last post Shady. I'd done stripping runs without a dephleg in the past. It never occurred to me to use one, but I think I'll add it and some packing to eeke out a little bit of fores to toss this time and then just turn off the dephleg cooling for the rest of the strip to collect it all.

[shadylane]

I don't turn the dephleg cooling water completely off.
A little bit of reflux helps keep the tails in the boiler.

[MtRainier]

OK, thanks. I'll give it a try.

[Deplorable]

Last night I got into a bottle of this that I cut to 45% about 8 weeks ago and just left it to sit on the bar under a loose cork stopper. I was surprised at the amount it had mellowed out. Its a really nice sipper right out of the bottle, and has made me several quarts of SPD, and what my wife has named "Berry Dangerous Jumble Berry Jam".

[MtRainier]

Did my stripping run yesterday and spirit run today.

I think Shady's right that a little bit of reflux on the strip does help the low wines be less stinky. I had started with a 20g batch of SSS and got almost 1.5 gallons of really nice neutral out of the strip today in about 5 hours. I took my time to see if it could come out pretty clean.

Thanks for this recipe. It's the easiest.

[shadylane]

Thanks for this recipe. It's the easiest.

Your welcome.
But I can't take credit, PUGIDOGS supplied the idea for the "yeast bomb"
And someone else figured out how to use oyster grit for pH control.
All I did was put the two together with other things I learned here.

[MtRainier]

I confess that I occasionally toss in a little gypsum or some DAP or a b vitamin capsule when I do this recipe, but I don't think it needs it. It probably works just fine without it, but I have it around so why not?

Last batch I used some DADY from a brewing store rather than bread yeast. I didn't get the massive crazy amount of bubbles in the fermenter that I get with bread yeast. It took longer, but it fermented out to 0.995 in about 10 days and distills pretty clean, so that's a success.

[shadylane]

DADY is good.
But not so much for a neutral wash.

Here's a simple recipe a friend uses to make what he calls sugar wine.
It's not meant for distilling, but makes a good neutral wash.
Water, sugar, boiled bakers yeast and ec1118 to do the fermenting.
SG 1.05ish. Pitch the amount of ec1118 recommended for the fermentation size.
And use 2 - 3 times that amount of boiled bakers yeast for nutrient/pH buffering.

[gsugg]

Shady,

Got to say that this is the best recipe for neutral ever. It took me a couple of runs to dial in what I like, but well worth it. I used the recipe to the letter and did 3 strips of 10 gallons each. I ran the ABV (total abv) down to about 30%. Diluted it back down to 20% and put the spirit run through my 3" CCVM. I've got 12" of rolled copper mesh, followed by 36" of lava rock. (goes from pea sized up to about 3/8's inch)

I brought the heat up on the spirit run at full power (5500 watts) till the heat was headed up the column pretty fast. Turned down the power to 5.5 amps and let it slow down. I used DAD's method of dripping out fores right from the start with almost no equalization. Put it back into full reflux after that for about 20 minutes and pulled the heads at a fast drip. Then increased heat to about 10 amps and pulled hearts at roughly pencil sized stream. Ran at almost 3 quarts an hour till the sight glass fogged and the abv dropped quickly by 2 or 3 points. Those compressed tails were real obvious so I shut it down. (I have no desire for playing with tails from a reflux run off a sugar wash).

This sized lava rock was a new pack for me (smaller and more uniform in size than before), and it pulled 95% from the start till the tails hit. Well, as close to 95% as I could tell with a $20 hydrometer. I proofed some down to 40% and then ran it through an ultrasonic treatment for four 8 minute cycles with heat. Sipping this straight and ice cold, it has what I'd call zero burn and an almost water taste. Thanks Shady so much for this. It's a new level of clean in a neutral. (It has taken me several runs to get it's true potential. In running it before I didn't re-dilute and also didn't control temperature and ph well enough).

[shadylane]

It took me a couple of runs to dial in what I like, but well worth it. I used the recipe to the letter and did 3 strips of 10 gallons each. I ran the ABV (total abv) down to about 30%. Diluted it back down to 20% and put the spirit run through my 3" CCVM.

The recipe/protocol does make a good neutral.
And it's great standard recipe, for learning how to run a still.

[shadylane]

I don't turn the dephleg cooling water completely off.
A little bit of reflux helps keep the tails in the boiler.

Yes, I'm quoting myself

When using a packed column for stripping.
A little bit of reflux also keeps the packing cleaner.

[rubberduck71]

This is a simple, tried and true recipe for sugar shine.
It works for potstill runs and even better for making a neutral with a column.
I use cheap bakers yeast. As in $5 for 2 pounds from Sam's Club

Rule #1 don't stress the yeast

Do you think this could be a viable recipe for hard seltzer?

I've been having serious problems with either cloudiness, bitter/sulfuric taste, or stalled ferments using dextrose & either US05 or LAV 1118. I've been using shells in a hop bag in my 6 gal ferment buckets w/ DAP.

Thanks!
Duck

[Deplorable]

This is a simple, tried and true recipe for sugar shine.
It works for potstill runs and even better for making a neutral with a column.
I use cheap bakers yeast. As in $5 for 2 pounds from Sam's Club

Rule #1 don't stress the yeast

Do you think this could be a viable recipe for hard seltzer?

I've been having serious problems with either cloudiness, bitter/sulfuric taste, or stalled ferments using dextrose & either US05 or LAV 1118. I've been using shells in a hop bag in my 6 gal ferment buckets w/ DAP.

Thanks!
Duck

Don right, and with good cuts, its a viable recipe for a lot of things. I've not made hard seltzer, but I've used this to make everything from a bottle of "vodka" for bloody mary's to fruit macerations like SPD, to apple and peach pie. It makes a very clean neutral, if you don't stress the yeast or push the wash ABV too high. I made 28 gallons of 10% wash and kept just a tad shy of 1.5 gallons of 95% before I shut it down at the first detection of tails and tossed that jar. I kept aside about a quart of dense heads for solvent before the hearts running it on my 2" CCVM. After about a week of rest in the jugs it was good to the last drop. I need to make more, so this will likely be the first ferment for me this fall when I get started this season while temps are still warm enough for bakers yeast. Then on to more bourbon.

[NZChris]

This is a simple, tried and true recipe for sugar shine.
It works for potstill runs and even better for making a neutral with a column.
I use cheap bakers yeast. As in $5 for 2 pounds from Sam's Club

Rule #1 don't stress the yeast

Do you think this could be a viable recipe for hard seltzer?

I've been having serious problems with either cloudiness, bitter/sulfuric taste, or stalled ferments using dextrose & either US05 or LAV 1118. I've been using shells in a hop bag in my 6 gal ferment buckets w/ DAP.

Thanks!
Duck

I've been double pot distilling this recipe, using a variety of yeasts, for over thirty years without ever producing a cloudy batch. Lately, I have been stripping with my pot, then doing the spirit run with a Bokakob. How are you distilling it?

[MtRainier]

Do you think this could be a viable recipe for hard seltzer?

I've been having serious problems with either cloudiness, bitter/sulfuric taste, or stalled ferments using dextrose & either US05 or LAV 1118. I've been using shells in a hop bag in my 6 gal ferment buckets w/ DAP.

Thanks!
Duck

I haven't done as much as NZChris, but I basically do what he does. Strip this recipe with a pot still and then run it slowly through a column. I only lose about 20% of the potential alcohol, I think, in heads and tails once I pick the clean stuff when making a neutral, so I think that's pretty good. It seems to ferment about as cleanly as one could expect.

I wouldn't use fancy beer or champagne yeast, just use an inexpensive bread yeast and don't go for a high starting gravity. If you want more alcohol do a few ferments and strip them all to combine into a single spirit run. It takes longer, but gives better results. Your mention of 1118 makes me think you're trying to ferment it with too much sugar to squeeze out as much alcohol as you can in your small 6 gallon ferment. Is that the case? If so, that could explain your disappointing results.

[rubberduck71]

I've been double pot distilling this recipe, using a variety of yeasts, for over thirty years without ever producing a cloudy batch. Lately, I have been stripping with my pot, then doing the spirit run with a Bokakob. How are you distilling it?

I haven't done as much as NZChris, but I basically do what he does. Strip this recipe with a pot still and then run it slowly through a column. I only lose about 20% of the potential alcohol, I think, in heads and tails once I pick the clean stuff when making a neutral, so I think that's pretty good. It seems to ferment about as cleanly as one could expect.

I wouldn't use fancy beer or champagne yeast, just use an inexpensive bread yeast and don't go for a high starting gravity. If you want more alcohol do a few ferments and strip them all to combine into a single spirit run. It takes longer, but gives better results. Your mention of 1118 makes me think you're trying to ferment it with too much sugar to squeeze out as much alcohol as you can in your small 6 gallon ferment. Is that the case? If so, that could explain your disappointing results.

Sorry, I may have confused you with my post: cloudy FERMENTATION that has a significant tendency to stall, even with a sock full of oyster shells. I'm trying to make hard seltzer (more for the SWIMBO than me...). I also make hard cider & keg them up in the garage fridge.

I've done 3 attempts with dextrose, all w/ ~1.040 - 1.050 SG (high ABV for seltzer is not the goal). So either dextrose is a fickle beast, or I'm doing something wrong. That said, I have PLENTY of white sugar washes that worked just fine with DAP, DADY, & shells under my belt. So was pondering this recipe as a viable alternative.

Thanks for your insights!
Duck

[Hambone]

I’m not sure that dextrose offers any advantage…but I wouldn’t see why it would be detrimental, either.

[shadylane]

I've been having serious problems with either cloudiness, bitter/sulfuric taste, or stalled ferments using dextrose & either US05 or LAV 1118. I've been using shells in a hop bag in my 6 gal ferment buckets w/ DAP.

Are you adding any B vitamins and Epsom salt?
Are you boiling part of the yeast for nutrients?
How fine are the shells crushed? Are the shell being reused?
Dos the water at your house leave a ring around the tub?

[MtRainier]

Sorry, I may have confused you with my post: cloudy FERMENTATION that has a significant tendency to stall, even with a sock full of oyster shells. I'm trying to make hard seltzer (more for the SWIMBO than me...). I also make hard cider & keg them up in the garage fridge.

I've done 3 attempts with dextrose, all w/ ~1.040 - 1.050 SG (high ABV for seltzer is not the goal). So either dextrose is a fickle beast, or I'm doing something wrong. That said, I have PLENTY of white sugar washes that worked just fine with DAP, DADY, & shells under my belt. So was pondering this recipe as a viable alternative.

Thanks for your insights!
Duck

Garage fridge.PNG

Wait, you want to ferment something that tastes good to drink directly without distilling?

I think most companies that make hard seltzer start with non-alcoholic seltzer and then basically add neutral spirit to it to make it hard. They don't serve the fermented wash. I've had some clean sugar ferments, but all of them end up pretty acidic and hard to drink.

If you're trying to drink the wash, I think you'll have a hard time making something that's pleasant to drink because you need to add extra nutrients to the wash to keep the yeast happy aside from just sugar and all of those nutrients do have a flavor that isn't necessarily pleasant.

Beer is such a miracle because the extra stuff that makes the yeast happy also tastes good to us.

[rubberduck71]

Are you adding any B vitamins and Epsom salt?
Are you boiling part of the yeast for nutrients?
How fine are the shells crushed? Are the shell being reused?
Dos the water at your house leave a ring around the tub?

No on the B, but pretty sure I used epsom (won't be home to check my notes until next Sat)
No on boiling, but I can for next batch!
Pretty sure it was 1st use on crushed oyster shells from Tractor Supply. They're about the size of an un-popped kernel of corn, or slightly smaller, in a hop sock.
Used distilled water, as I'd read/heard/seen that tap water isn't very good for making clear seltzer

Thanks!
Duck

[rubberduck71]

Wait, you want to ferment something that tastes good to drink directly without distilling?

I think most companies that make hard seltzer start with non-alcoholic seltzer and then basically add neutral spirit to it to make it hard. They don't serve the fermented wash. I've had some clean sugar ferments, but all of them end up pretty acidic and hard to drink.

If you're trying to drink the wash, I think you'll have a hard time making something that's pleasant to drink because you need to add extra nutrients to the wash to keep the yeast happy aside from just sugar and all of those nutrients do have a flavor that isn't necessarily pleasant.

Beer is such a miracle because the extra stuff that makes the yeast happy also tastes good to us.

Correct! Drinking the wash. Not too much different (process-wise) than the hard cider I've been making from store bought juice.

There's a lot of seltzers out there that are sold in beer distributors where I live. *** Have pity on me -- I live in Pennsylvania, so liquor is sold in State stores. *** So point here is if it's sold in beer stores, it's not NGS-based. Must be sugar or malt based. For those of you of a certain age - remember malt coolers???

But point taken that it's a difficult path!

Keep the suggestions coming folks.

Thanks!!!
Duck

[Saltbush Bill]

No wonder its not working.... you havnt followed the recipe.....there is a reason why you boil the yeast.

[shadylane]

Your yeast is starving too death from lack of nutrients.
And distilled water contains no oxygen, that they need to multiply.