Temperature vs power control...does it really matter?

[Distillusioned]

It should read, "...the simmerstat can be adjusted by the user to maintain the desired simmer..."

Put a thermometer in a pot of water on your hot plate, bring it to the boil, then try to use the 'thermostat' to adjust the temperature of the water while maintaining the boil.

Not doubting simmerstat vs thermostat, but I think I'd need to bring the water to some non-boiling temperature to get some more meaningful data. That would give me an idea of how much swing I get in temperatures while it cycles on and off. Not sure if that would be useful data or not....

If I understand what a simmerstat is, it really is just a power controller with a really, really extended duty cycle.

I have no idea what meaningful data you would get, not for distilling anyway. You can't distil anything if your charge isn't boiling.

Yes, a simmerstat is a power controller. If it's dial goes from 0-12, like those on my stove, at 6 it will give you 50% power by annoyingly switching off and on. When you're cooking your dinner, you hardly notice the effect. For distilling, it needs to be fully on and controlled by an external controller like the SCR you've been recommended. Even that might not work if you trip the plate's internal over-temperature switch, (that cannot be removed without destroying the plate).

I'm not trying to deny the superiority of constant power input. I don't argue that a liquid at its boiling point needs to have additional heat added to maintain a boil. I can hear the boiling happening even when the hotplate is cycled off. I'm not seeing my output surging. Based on my actual observations of the system in action, I'm just going to have to assume the cast-iron surface is retaining sufficient heat during the off periods to maintain the boil. Thanks for the discussion.

[NZChris]

As long as the plate has enough thermal mass to do that for you, it's all good and you don't need to do anything else.

[Distillusioned]

As long as the plate has enough thermal mass to do that for you, it's all good and you don't need to do anything else.

Dammit, I'm sorry to drag you into this again, but I just got done with a run, and I'm puzzled. I haven't been focusing too much on the cycling, but more on the temps in the pot/condenser.

After all this discussion, I watched the cycling closer this evening. It stayed on constantly until some point before the still started producing. Then it started cycling. That indicates some form of thermostatic behavior, does it not?

At this point, I'm like 99% sure overanalyzing this.

My takeaway is: my current setup is probably good enough, but an internal element with a power control would be better, but my ability to discern good spirit from better spirit probably can't discriminate the difference, so I should stop stressing and get back to enjoying this.

I spent way too much time tinkering with this in isolation. After reading the wealth of knowledge on this board, I think I've just started doubting everything. Information overload.

I want to make the best product I can, but I need to chill out.

Thank you (and everyone else) for all the input.

[NZChris]

How long is a cycle? It could be that pesky overheating protection switch built into the plate that I talked about earlier. They cut off about half of the rated Watts to prevent the plate from getting red hot.

Put some tape over the thermometer so that it can't distract you from running by controlling the output rate.

[Saltbush Bill]

I haven't been focusing too much on the cycling, but more on the temps in the pot/condenser.

If you've been staring at a thermometer instead of watching whats leaving the still then your in a bad place to begin with.........that will tell you nothing of relevance. If there is not a steady and constant stream of product leaving the still then you have problems...its that simple......no need to over think things.
What do you mean by condenser ? the condencer has water in it ?

[Distillusioned]

I haven't been focusing too much on the cycling, but more on the temps in the pot/condenser.

If you've been staring at a thermometer instead of watching whats leaving the still then your in a bad place to begin with.........that will tell you nothing of relevance. If there is not a steady and constant stream of product leaving the still then you have problems...its that simple......no need to over think things.
What do you mean by condenser ? the condencer has water in it ?

I actually plugged the thermometer holes. I do, however, feel the pot/lyne arm/condenser to get an idea where it sits. What I was referring to was the discussion in this thread. I've been focusing more on the temperature aspect rather than how exactly the hotplate was cycling (because I wasn't paying so much attention to that). I probably didn't verbalize it very good, though.

Yeah, the condenser has water "in" it...or, rather, "around" it. But you know that, so I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Distillusioned]

How long is a cycle? It could be that pesky overheating protection switch built into the plate that I talked about earlier. They cut off about half of the rated Watts to prevent the plate from getting red hot.

Put some tape over the thermometer so that it can't distract you from running by controlling the output rate.

Rough guess, at around 7/10, maybe a minute off and about 3-4-or more minutes on.

No thermometer aside from my hand.

[Distillusioned]

Let me try to anticipate the next question. I'm feeling the system to see how far along the heat has travelled so I know when it's close to producing. During the run, I'm feeling the condenser water so I know when to change it. I recirculate cooling water. The bucket is small relative to the boiler charge. I keep the water cool in the basement during runs, I one big drum isn't practical.

[NZChris]

Don't assume that we know what equipment you have, or how you use it. E.G. I don't feel my condenser water, I look after the temperature of the condensate. I use very little cooling water and what I do use leaves the condenser too hot to hold my finger under.

There are both good and poor ways of using a drum of water to cool a condenser. Some of the methods you will find on the net ignore what we were all taught at school, that heat rises, so they end up slowly warming the whole drum rather than returning hot water to the top and drawing off cold water from the bottom.

[Distillusioned]

Don't assume that we know what equipment you have, or how you use it. E.G. I don't feel my condenser water, I look after the temperature of the condensate. I use very little cooling water and what I do use leaves the condenser too hot to hold my finger under.

There are both good and poor ways of using a drum of water to cool a condenser. Some of the methods you will find on the net ignore what we were all taught at school, that heat rises, so they end up slowly warming the whole drum rather than returning hot water to the top and drawing off cold water from the bottom.

I have it in my head everything I do, but I can never seem to communicate all the details right. Hell, in my last post, I said "...keep the water cool in the basement during runs...," but I meant "...keep the water cool in the basement between runs...."

I think I need to actually spend time to type out all the details of how I approach a run. And then proofread it a few times. And then start a thread so I can point people to it and update it as I change my process.

Thanks again for all the input.

[NZChris]

I think I need to actually spend time to type out all the details of how I approach a run

That's what I do before every run, especially for a product I've never made before or want to change. I'm sure I spend far more time researching than I do distilling, especially now that I've retired. The notes I make for the run is my guide for my next attempt.

When asking a question, many newbies assume that we know what still they have and how they ran it. Many times when I try to fill in the dots, I get it wrong and waste my time by answering a question that they weren't really asking.