I love a good VM build thread. In recent years a handful of folks keep pushing CCVM as the answer to every build question, but I’ll take a valved VM any day of the week.
That glass spool sure looks nice but it does not provide any value where you have it placed. I recommend you swap it with the spool just below your VM takeoff. Pack the glass section like a column section and leave the top 3” viewable inches unpacked. With that view you can see both how much reflux you are returning to the column and if your column is flooding. Very valuable info, especially when learning to drive your rig.
I am curious to know how much power you have for heat?
OtisT wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:11 pm
I love a good VM build thread. In recent years a handful of folks keep pushing CCVM as the answer to every build question, but I’ll take a valved VM any day of the week.
That glass spool sure looks nice but it does not provide any value where you have it placed. I recommend you swap it with the spool just below your VM takeoff. Pack the glass section like a column section and leave the top 3” viewable inches unpacked. With that view you can see both how much reflux you are returning to the column and if your column is flooding. Very valuable info, especially when learning to drive your rig.
I am curious to know how much power you have for heat?
Otis
Hey Otis,
I have a short version of the sight glass (100mm long) for connection above the two insulation spools but I am currently a few clamps short so I couldn't connect it! That way I can see what's being returned to the SPP etc.
I've got a 4.5kw element and a controller, planning to run 2-2.5kw in reflux mode
I've attached an image below of the other parts I currently have. Still quite a few to arrive and then the boiler to be fabricated
Ball valve works just fine . Unless you get a notch gate valve with zero backlash you’ll find a ball more accurate to use . The amount that a VM valve is actually open in very small .Using a smaller valve makes it easier to operate as you have more of the valve open .
You might want to get a few reels of teflon tape to wrap all those Silicone gaskets up in . .
The 100mm site glass below tee will help IMO , especially if you are going to use 4500w to heat up ….. definitely potential for a big squirt out the top if you miss the window to turn down .
My advice is to always keep feeling the column at the bottom . The moment you feel it get hot , you literally seconds to drop power .
4500w is a lot of current . What sort of power point have you got installed?
Yummyrum wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:43 pm
Ball valve works just fine . Unless you get a notch gate valve with zero backlash you’ll find a ball more accurate to use . The amount that a VM valve is actually open in very small .Using a smaller valve makes it easier to operate as you have more of the valve open .
You might want to get a few reels of teflon tape to wrap all those Silicone gaskets up in . .
The 100mm site glass below tee will help IMO , especially if you are going to use 4500w to heat up ….. definitely potential for a big squirt out the top if you miss the window to turn down .
My advice is to always keep feeling the column at the bottom . The moment you feel it get hot , you literally seconds to drop power .
4500w is a lot of current . What sort of power point have you got installed?
My wife has informed me I'll be running it at work so I'll just be using a PowerPoint in the warehouse. We're on 230v so 20A should cut the mustard for a 4.5kw element I'm hoping!
That's interesting about the ball valve. I do prefer a ball valve and then I don't have to connect threaded ferrules etc so maybe I'll just stick with it!
Ben wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:22 pm
230v at 20 amps is 4600 watts
to run 4500 watts you need 4500/0.8, or 5625 watts, IE a 25a breaker. You will need a smaller element.
Unlikely I'm going to change the element. I'll probably change the breaker or run a new circuit if I need to. I'm really not too worried about that side of things to be honest, making changes in a warehouse environment is pretty straightforward
Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:18 pm
For maximum performance the column also needs to be in insulated....I don't see that much exposed glass to low in the still being helpful.
Good point Bill. I was not thinking about that. Moot point, now that Pete shared with us that he has a short sight glass on order too.
Worth mentioning that copper has a thermal conductivity about 400 times greater than glass .
So yeah , I’d wrap my copper but not so concerned about a small glass section ….. especially if it had little to no packing in it .
Tis also why glass condensers are shite compared to copper ones .
Well, there was a real lull in packages arriving! Unfortunately I'm still waiting for the last of the fittings required for my boiler and fermenter to go into fabrication, and I also have a sanitary cross coming to replace the two Ts at the takeoff (just to reduce height a bit).
Anyway, pretty much everything else for the column has finally arrived- here it is!
I have some mesh gaskets for the SPP. Has anyone used anything similar and would be able to weigh in on whether it's grunty enough to support almost 2kg of spp?
Careful. Those have been used before and tend to hold up condensate, causing flooding. Don’t over pack your column as that would exacerbate the problem.
ss
Good news today fellas - my SPP has reached the US and is being sent to NZ. Unfortunately the Russian manufacturer didn't ship to NZ so I've had to do it that way. Should have it within a month.
Still waiting on my final delivery of tri clamp fittings, so unfortunately my boiler and fermenter aren't into fabrication yet. It looks like they're somewhere in the country though so with luck they'll arrive in time to have the fabrication complete before the SPP arrives.
Less good news - my wife decided to go through our statement and add up what I've spent..
Yeah mate, 5x5x0.5mm copper SPP. Bought it off some random lady in Russia...
I just had the balance of my triclamp fittings turn up too, so I've just dropped those off to my fabricator and hopefully a couple of weeks from now I have a 50l boiler and 100l fermenter!
I packed the column with the SPP and used the mesh gasket shown in post above to hold it in the column... well, that didn't work! Back to the drawing board
i know it's more stuff, but if you put 1 or 2 rolls of copper mesh to hold the SPP in the column.
would that work?
my rolls of mesh fit pretty close and tight, but are still very breathable.
you would have to try it and see.
maybe even see how much weight of SPP that 1 x roll of mesh would hold.
maybe one roll at the bottom of of each section if it's too heavy?
i roll a 2.4m length of mesh in a 2", it's a tight fit, but it still 'breathes' well.
i can't see a problem using mesh as a 'stopper', unless some of the more experienced blokes can see a problem.
what do SPP users usually use to hold their bit's in the column?
When you order spp from the polish guy from the link above, you get 2 wire disc for each liter you order.
They are made from the same wire as the spp, looks like mesh but with more spring tension so they stay in place in the column and can hold the spp weight.
I don't know how much the SPP weighs, but I have used some stiff copper mesh stuffed into the column to hold up 24" of lava rock with no problems. The copper mesh is the type in craft stores used for sculpture. My column is in two pieces, 24 and 12" sections. I was worried it wouldn't hold, but it held perfectly.
Thanks cmac. I have ordered some copper mesh - hopefully this time it's actually copper when it arrives!
I went to see my fabricator today to clarify a couple of things before he starts cutting the stainless for my boiler and fermenter - fingers crossed that means it'll be finished over the next couple of days!
I purchased a 2” spool piece from Brewhaus that has a welded stainless screen on the end with large holes that haven’t caused any unwanted flooding issues. I then put a roll of copper mesh on top of that before adding my SPP. I use the mesh to keep the SPP from falling through the large holes in the screen, but have never tested out using just copper mesh to keep SPP from making a mess in the boiler….
So I went to the garage.
I just pieced together 36” of my column that doesn’t have the support in the bottom. I added one section of tightly rolled copper mesh in the end and filled the rest with my SPP. It help the weight just fine, but did start to move as I bounced the column up and down. I added a second section of mesh to the bottom, and did it again. This time, it was hard to get it to move at all by bouncing.
Granted, I didn’t test this during a run, but I feel like you should be fine with two sections of copper mesh holding up the SPP as long as you roll them pretty tight. See what you think when you get your mesh in, but from what I just saw, I think it would work.
Here’s to lobster tail and whiskey. Three of my favorite things.
Just an update on where I'm at. I went down to my fabricators shop today - the components are still sitting cut and ready to weld - hopefully today! The joys of calling in a favor
I've got some copper mesh to go on top of my screens now, which should sort out holding in my SPP. I've also got the rest of the column ready to go - hose fittings, quick connects etc. The last item I'm waiting on is a new stainless compression gland as I ordered one too small for my thermometer.
Question for the VM operators- which valve would you recommend? As you can see I've ended up with a few here
I’d try them all Pete … especially since you have them already .
Personally I use the Ball valve with the blue handle style .
The Gate valve would seem to give you more control because there is around 5 full turns between opened and closed , but they tend to have backlash .
IE , when you change direction , you have to turn knob by maybe 1/4 to half a turn before the actual gate moves . This can often be more than the amount you needed to adjust it by .
In that respect a ball valve is more definite in its movement but you only have less than a quarter turn between open and close .
I’ve mentioned it a few times on the forum but I have marked on the handle the exact point where the ball is just closed .Its about 10-15° from the stop . Once you know where that is , you can use it as a reference when running . There will be barely 2-5° past the “just closed” position that you will be at to start taking off foreshots , and heads and hearts positions are not that further past . Everything happens in a very narrow band of handle movement .
So forget the concept of grabbing the handle and turning it , it will be more a minute gentle tapping a few degrees .
I’ll let someone else mention what to do about the orange things n the sight glasses
Yummyrum wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:47 pm
I’d try them all Pete … especially since you have them already .
Personally I use the Ball valve with the blue handle style .
The Gate valve would seem to give you more control because there is around 5 full turns between opened and closed , but they tend to have backlash .
IE , when you change direction , you have to turn knob by maybe 1/4 to half a turn before the actual gate moves . This can often be more than the amount you needed to adjust it by .
In that respect a ball valve is more definite in its movement but you only have less than a quarter turn between open and close .
I’ve mentioned it a few times on the forum but I have marked on the handle the exact point where the ball is just closed .Its about 10-15° from the stop . Once you know where that is , you can use it as a reference when running . There will be barely 2-5° past the “just closed” position that you will be at to start taking off foreshots , and heads and hearts positions are not that further past . Everything happens in a very narrow band of handle movement .
So forget the concept of grabbing the handle and turning it , it will be more a minute gentle tapping a few degrees .
I’ll let someone else mention what to do about the orange things n the sight glasses
Thanks yummy!! I have some PTFE tape, it just seems niggly so I've been procrastinating!!!
Sounds good about the valves, I'll try a few things and see where I end up
In recent years a handful of folks keep pushing CCVM as the answer to every build question, but I’ll take a valved VM any day of the week. 
fair enough.
Re: VM Column Build
